I know and yes I have done a search but thought I would do a more specific to our vehicles quiz. We have a 2013 3.2 BT50 Dual cab with tray back and we have added an aluminium checkerplate canopy. We tow a 16.6' Goldstream RV pop top off roader single axle van with a GTM of 1970kg an ATM of 2160kg and tow ball wt of 190kg. We have a Black Widow 2 drawer system and a 45ltr Engel in the canopy plus the 120 extra battery. We have been to Dobinsons in Rockhampton and had them upgrade the springs to what they thought would be right,(5 springs) but our vehicle still tilts down at the back even without the van attached. They were going to reset the 5 original springs but we had them replace them totally. It doesn't seem to change when we hitch up. We only have a Weber Baby Q and one gas bottle on the draw bar and the van is not loaded up to the hilt. We still have empty cupboard space. Another quick question. Does the tow ball weight change when you add things to the van? We do have a tow ball scales. Also if the van is sloping slightly down hill will that weight change? KIM
PeterD said
04:34 PM Oct 2, 2016
If your vehicle is sitting too low at the rear then it probably means it is carrying a heavy load. How much did the new springs raise the loaded Weight? Have you put your tug over a weighbridge? When you do, get a front axle figure and then a total figure so you can calculate the rear axle weight. Check that with the handbook to check for overloading.
Another quick question. Does the tow ball weight change when you add things to the van? We do have a tow ball scales. Also if the van is sloping slightly down hill will that weight change?
The change in ball weight will depend upon where you added the load and what size load you add. You are dealing with a see-saw. Add the weight ahead of the pivot and it will increase the ball weight, add it behind the pivot and the load will decrease the ball weight. You are dealing with the principal of levers. Read that article and you will ber able to calculate the effect.
With regards to the nose being down a bit, that will add a smidgeon of extra weight but I doubt that you will measure much, particularly on tow bal scales. At any rate you should measure the ball weight at the towing attitude, particularly if you have non-load bearing dual axles (id independent suspension.)
Brownie2 said
01:48 PM Oct 3, 2016
Hi Kim, Common problem with the BT50 and Ranger I'm afraid. Our 2014 BT50 was soft in the rear when loaded, so on our first trip north we went to Wikinsons Springs in Atherton and had them fit an "off the shelf" replacement rear spring set. (they keep them in stock as there are so many Ford/Mazdas needing a beef up). Not bad after they were fitted with a reasonable lift increase in the rear, but after several off road excursions towing the Coromal 505 I still was not happy. So, I had an Old Man Emu upgrade fitted to front and rear with at least a 2inch lift all around. Great set-up with adjustable shockers with remote oil reservoirs, and adjustable front coil springs. Pricey at $4500 ish but a fantastic upgrade. Very happy, and now towing a Kimberley Kruiser with a 3.2 T wet weight. Good luck, Bob
macka17 said
03:09 PM Oct 3, 2016
Get your car sitting level. when loaded.
Before you start doing anything else.
Arse down you not load balanced or rears shagged.
Weigh everything as you load it the first time. So you KNOW.
I fitted a set of Ironman, 1\2 leaf rear springs to mine
Suspension works normally till you load.
as soon as load felt. The Half leaves take the excess.
Had them on prev Nissan too. Very effective.
But you need susp balanced and level B4 you start playing around.
Play with leaf ratings and shackles first.
WITH the load ratings you going to have.
gandk said
07:53 AM Oct 4, 2016
Thank you to those who replied. Yes you all have good points so we shall empty her and start from scratch weighing it before adding and move things around a bit. I think she still needs either one or two more springs but shall take it back to Dobinsons I suppose, although they did the upgrade on her which I think was a bit lacking. Ta. Kim
MICKO said
11:21 AM Oct 4, 2016
Hi gandk
we have a 2015 BT50 and it sagged badly until we had the original springs re- tensioned and added an extra leaf,picked everything up beautifully and now have a level setup. It is a common fault as the suspensions are made for the soft ride not the hard work, the work cost $450 and most of the day'
Cheers Micko
mezza56 said
06:03 PM Oct 4, 2016
Brownie 2
I was thinking of installing same set up as you on our ranger , whats the ride like with no load on ?
We have a checkerplate full body , no tray on our twin cab , it only added approx 60kg more than the tub , vehicle weight now is 2320kg with a full tank of fuel.
Our van is approx 3.1 tonne loaded so similar to yours , how does your vehicle tow with the van hitched on ?
Is your set up 600kg constant weight or less ?
Brownie2 said
06:28 PM Oct 4, 2016
Hi Mezza56,
It rides beautifully without the van and the extra stuff we cart when we are travelling. Mind you we still have the Mazda factory canopy, set of Black Widow drawers (with stuff in them), and have Rhino baskets on the roof of both cabin and canopy. Empty of course when not travelling. The people fitting the OME suspension should be asking lots of questions of you like Steel Bull Bar? Drawers in back? How much weight when loaded? etc. etc. From memory there are about 3 spring options available. The guys at South Gippsland Off Road in Wonthaggi Vic. fitted ours and we couldn't be happier. You'll be surprised at the lift it gives the vehicle all around. They have a spacer kit they fit to the drive shaft to straighten that up due to the lift. I now need a little ladder to get the grog out of the Engel!! Keep in mind that with the OME system that we have, you can get a GVM increase of some 130kg which we did, requiring a visit to Engineers and a couple of hundred bucks out of the wallet!
Not sure of our constant weight, but guess it would have to be up there. Vehicle handles the weight of the van easily and tows flat. Mind you we are using a bit more fuel this trip with the new van.
Cheers,
Brownie
Crustie said
07:48 PM Oct 4, 2016
Would it just be easier to put some good quality air bags on the rear
Leaf springs have always been a problem on work vehicles
Doesn't matter if it is a Ford Toyota Mazda they all have problems
Brownie2 said
08:22 PM Oct 4, 2016
Chris, As an ex Motor Mech I have a problem with airbags and leaf springs. It places the load where it isn't supposed to be. OK if you just have a small pressure in the bag, but I've several occasions when airbags have been used to "pump up" the vehicle, load in the wrong place and not at the shackle points where it is designed to be, and cracked chassis has been the result.
Maybe OK if low pressures are used. Just my opinion. There has probably been lots of discussion on this before so will watch for other comments with interest.
Cheers,
Brownie
Crustie said
08:49 PM Oct 4, 2016
Thanks Brownie
Makes sense what you are saying
As a plumber Ive had a lot of work vehicles over the years all with Leaf Springs
The best result I've had was not to replace the springs but to reset them and put extra pieces in
Im sure there are some good springs out there but can be disappointing when you pay out a lot
of money and you don't get the result you were wanting.
I had airbags on a 200 series land cruiser I had however it was just for a small adjustment and
I can say the ride was good.
Cheers Chris
mezza56 said
02:05 PM Oct 5, 2016
Hi Brownie
Isn't that a small world , we shared a table with the owner of the business that fitted your suspension at lunch at the 4WD show in melb.
He was a real wealth of information and he didn't have a clue I was looking at the BP 50 set up .
He was a really friendly guy , after discussing it he said he had a ranger and fitted them to his own vehicle and invited us up to test it out.
We intended to go up to see him in the near future. We manage a park in Vic and had a Kimberly cruiser come stay it looks like a rocket ship
the owner was wrapped with it.
Mez
macka17 said
11:47 PM Oct 5, 2016
Airbags normally cause more problems than they fix.
Reset leaves are ok.
AS long as the material in them is good quality. Cheap Chinese.
They'll soon sag again.
You can buy longer leaves with extended shackles and different ratings.
some have a higher basic carrying variable loadings. 300/400kg to suit.
I wouldn't use Dobinsons myself and I live where they make them.
Look at King Springs. Never had a problem with them.
Heavier variable rate shockers help too. as do fitting double shocks.
There are a lot of ways to improve.
But if you go Airbags and near max weights.
Check with a welder about reinforces on chassis rails. to spread the pressure points.
The next one that bends in the middle won't be the first with airbags involved..
Me. I got std leaves. with Ironman half leaves on rear of them
and EFS heavy duty shocks.
Holds my 2700+kg D-Max up nice and level with 2 ton tandem van.
And I think,
No matter how anybody fiddles it. and power avail.
That anybody with a 2400kg Ute dragging a 3 plus ton van of any shape.
Will find any way of being legal with it.
Apart from any safety aspects.
Properly set up leaf springs with extended leaves and shackles
with good shocks. will do as good a job and sometimes better.
Tham most other systems. when towing especially.
EFS do a good range of leaves too.
Look on net.
Brownie2 said
08:54 AM Oct 6, 2016
G'day Mez, Yes, small world! The guys at South G[ppsland Off Road are great to deal with. Nothing like being able to "try before you buy" and check out their Ranger already fitted with the OME system.
You'll have to tell us which Park you manage and we'll drop in. We are on the road for at least 3 years now.
The Kruiser is certainly a spaceship looking thing (the previous model did look like a big horse float - maybe that's why Kimberley use the "Black Caviar" badge )! We always tell people who comment on the van that "it is a little bit fancy - but we're not!" We were lucky to be able to afford it. And Macka, good comments mate re airbags. All that you are talking about is pretty much covered by the Old Man Emu stuff, you just have to pay a fair bit for it. There are cheaper options for sure. Brownie
wombat56 said
09:19 PM Oct 6, 2016
Hi Micko
Could you please enlighten me on what you mean you had the springs re tensioned. and where would I go to get this done to also add an extra leaf I live on Melbourne
I have just purchaed a BT50 2016 Freestyle Ute
Thanks
Wombat56
macka17 said
06:13 PM Oct 8, 2016
Retempering is basically, Reheating . Peening. (Hammering)
and resetting the radius of leaves..
OK with decent alloys but waste of money with cheaper alloys.
Good alloys, Makes them better than new.
Refitting longer main leaves and longer shackles helps too.
Brownie.
I went through most of the options and what you get for your $$$'s with Navara yrs ago.
Good quality springs. I went reset, and Ironman 1\2 leaves, for my loading and towing.
If offroad orientated I'd have gone longer mains with pack reset
and longer shackles for the extra and soft travel.
Then just slipped 1\2 leaves on when towing van.
Only takes 1\2 hr and a cuppa.
with AIR I'd go full air or no air. if using decent pressures
An awful lot have regretted installing it as a mix.
Mainly chassis rail problems.
MICKO said
05:24 PM Oct 9, 2016
Hi Wombat
it might be worthwhile going back to your Mazda dealer and see if they will do the job for you
Cheers Micko
Symo2540 said
08:43 PM Oct 12, 2016
Hi we have 2015 BT50 dual cab and tow 2600 kg van with ball weight around 275 kg. We were very disappointed with original rear springs so had Dobinsons Springs at Narrellan reset our second leaf and added an extra leaf just under it. Very happy now $465 was a great investment.
Vehicle raised about 35mm on rear. Ride not towing is better and not harsh at all.
I know and yes I have done a search but thought I would do a more specific to our vehicles quiz. We have a 2013 3.2 BT50 Dual cab with tray back and we have added an aluminium checkerplate canopy. We tow a 16.6' Goldstream RV pop top off roader single axle van with a GTM of 1970kg an ATM of 2160kg and tow ball wt of 190kg. We have a Black Widow 2 drawer system and a 45ltr Engel in the canopy plus the 120 extra battery. We have been to Dobinsons in Rockhampton and had them upgrade the springs to what they thought would be right,(5 springs) but our vehicle still tilts down at the back even without the van attached. They were going to reset the 5 original springs but we had them replace them totally. It doesn't seem to change when we hitch up. We only have a Weber Baby Q and one gas bottle on the draw bar and the van is not loaded up to the hilt. We still have empty cupboard space. Another quick question. Does the tow ball weight change when you add things to the van? We do have a tow ball scales. Also if the van is sloping slightly down hill will that weight change? KIM
If your vehicle is sitting too low at the rear then it probably means it is carrying a heavy load. How much did the new springs raise the loaded Weight? Have you put your tug over a weighbridge? When you do, get a front axle figure and then a total figure so you can calculate the rear axle weight. Check that with the handbook to check for overloading.
The change in ball weight will depend upon where you added the load and what size load you add. You are dealing with a see-saw. Add the weight ahead of the pivot and it will increase the ball weight, add it behind the pivot and the load will decrease the ball weight. You are dealing with the principal of levers. Read that article and you will ber able to calculate the effect.
With regards to the nose being down a bit, that will add a smidgeon of extra weight but I doubt that you will measure much, particularly on tow bal scales. At any rate you should measure the ball weight at the towing attitude, particularly if you have non-load bearing dual axles (id independent suspension.)
Hi Kim, Common problem with the BT50 and Ranger I'm afraid. Our 2014 BT50 was soft in the rear when loaded, so on our first trip north we went to Wikinsons Springs in Atherton and had them fit an "off the shelf" replacement rear spring set. (they keep them in stock as there are so many Ford/Mazdas needing a beef up). Not bad after they were fitted with a reasonable lift increase in the rear, but after several off road excursions towing the Coromal 505 I still was not happy. So, I had an Old Man Emu upgrade fitted to front and rear with at least a 2inch lift all around. Great set-up with adjustable shockers with remote oil reservoirs, and adjustable front coil springs. Pricey at $4500 ish but a fantastic upgrade. Very happy, and now towing a Kimberley Kruiser with a 3.2 T wet weight. Good luck, Bob
Before you start doing anything else.
Arse down you not load balanced or rears shagged.
Weigh everything as you load it the first time. So you KNOW.
I fitted a set of Ironman, 1\2 leaf rear springs to mine
Suspension works normally till you load.
as soon as load felt. The Half leaves take the excess.
Had them on prev Nissan too. Very effective.
But you need susp balanced and level B4 you start playing around.
Play with leaf ratings and shackles first.
WITH the load ratings you going to have.
Thank you to those who replied. Yes you all have good points so we shall empty her and start from scratch weighing it before adding and move things around a bit. I think she still needs either one or two more springs but shall take it back to Dobinsons I suppose, although they did the upgrade on her which I think was a bit lacking. Ta. Kim
we have a 2015 BT50 and it sagged badly until we had the original springs re- tensioned and added an extra leaf,picked everything up beautifully and now have a level setup. It is a common fault as the suspensions are made for the soft ride not the hard work, the work cost $450 and most of the day'
Cheers Micko
Brownie 2
I was thinking of installing same set up as you on our ranger , whats the ride like with no load on ?
We have a checkerplate full body , no tray on our twin cab , it only added approx 60kg more than the tub , vehicle weight now is 2320kg with a full tank of fuel.
Our van is approx 3.1 tonne loaded so similar to yours , how does your vehicle tow with the van hitched on ?
Is your set up 600kg constant weight or less ?
It rides beautifully without the van and the extra stuff we cart when we are travelling. Mind you we still have the Mazda factory canopy, set of Black Widow drawers (with stuff in them), and have Rhino baskets on the roof of both cabin and canopy. Empty of course when not travelling. The people fitting the OME suspension should be asking lots of questions of you like Steel Bull Bar? Drawers in back? How much weight when loaded? etc. etc. From memory there are about 3 spring options available. The guys at South Gippsland Off Road in Wonthaggi Vic. fitted ours and we couldn't be happier. You'll be surprised at the lift it gives the vehicle all around. They have a spacer kit they fit to the drive shaft to straighten that up due to the lift. I now need a little ladder to get the grog out of the Engel!! Keep in mind that with the OME system that we have, you can get a GVM increase of some 130kg which we did, requiring a visit to Engineers and a couple of hundred bucks out of the wallet!
Not sure of our constant weight, but guess it would have to be up there. Vehicle handles the weight of the van easily and tows flat. Mind you we are using a bit more fuel this trip with the new van.
Cheers,
Brownie
Leaf springs have always been a problem on work vehicles
Doesn't matter if it is a Ford Toyota Mazda they all have problems
Maybe OK if low pressures are used. Just my opinion. There has probably been lots of discussion on this before so will watch for other comments with interest.
Cheers,
Brownie
Makes sense what you are saying
As a plumber Ive had a lot of work vehicles over the years all with Leaf Springs
The best result I've had was not to replace the springs but to reset them and put extra pieces in
Im sure there are some good springs out there but can be disappointing when you pay out a lot
of money and you don't get the result you were wanting.
I had airbags on a 200 series land cruiser I had however it was just for a small adjustment and
I can say the ride was good.
Cheers Chris
Hi Brownie
Isn't that a small world , we shared a table with the owner of the business that fitted your suspension at lunch at the 4WD show in melb.
He was a real wealth of information and he didn't have a clue I was looking at the BP 50 set up .
He was a really friendly guy , after discussing it he said he had a ranger and fitted them to his own vehicle and invited us up to test it out.
We intended to go up to see him in the near future. We manage a park in Vic and had a Kimberly cruiser come stay it looks like a rocket ship
the owner was wrapped with it.
Mez
Reset leaves are ok.
AS long as the material in them is good quality. Cheap Chinese.
They'll soon sag again.
You can buy longer leaves with extended shackles and different ratings.
some have a higher basic carrying variable loadings. 300/400kg to suit.
I wouldn't use Dobinsons myself and I live where they make them.
Look at King Springs. Never had a problem with them.
Heavier variable rate shockers help too. as do fitting double shocks.
There are a lot of ways to improve.
But if you go Airbags and near max weights.
Check with a welder about reinforces on chassis rails. to spread the pressure points.
The next one that bends in the middle won't be the first with airbags involved..
Me. I got std leaves. with Ironman half leaves on rear of them
and EFS heavy duty shocks.
Holds my 2700+kg D-Max up nice and level with 2 ton tandem van.
And I think,
No matter how anybody fiddles it. and power avail.
That anybody with a 2400kg Ute dragging a 3 plus ton van of any shape.
Will find any way of being legal with it.
Apart from any safety aspects.
Properly set up leaf springs with extended leaves and shackles
with good shocks. will do as good a job and sometimes better.
Tham most other systems. when towing especially.
EFS do a good range of leaves too.
Look on net.
G'day Mez,
Yes, small world! The guys at South G[ppsland Off Road are great to deal with. Nothing like being able to "try before you buy" and check out their Ranger already fitted with the OME system.
You'll have to tell us which Park you manage and we'll drop in. We are on the road for at least 3 years now.
The Kruiser is certainly a spaceship looking thing (the previous model did look like a big horse float - maybe that's why Kimberley use the "Black Caviar" badge
)! We always tell people who comment on the van that "it is a little bit fancy - but we're not!" We were lucky to be able to afford it. And Macka, good comments mate re airbags. All that you are talking about is pretty much covered by the Old Man Emu stuff, you just have to pay a fair bit for it. There are cheaper options for sure. Brownie
Hi Micko
Could you please enlighten me on what you mean you had the springs re tensioned. and where would I go to get this done to also add an extra leaf I live on Melbourne
I have just purchaed a BT50 2016 Freestyle Ute
Thanks
Wombat56
and resetting the radius of leaves..
OK with decent alloys but waste of money with cheaper alloys.
Good alloys, Makes them better than new.
Refitting longer main leaves and longer shackles helps too.
Brownie.
I went through most of the options and what you get for your $$$'s with Navara yrs ago.
Good quality springs. I went reset, and Ironman 1\2 leaves, for my loading and towing.
If offroad orientated I'd have gone longer mains with pack reset
and longer shackles for the extra and soft travel.
Then just slipped 1\2 leaves on when towing van.
Only takes 1\2 hr and a cuppa.
with AIR I'd go full air or no air. if using decent pressures
An awful lot have regretted installing it as a mix.
Mainly chassis rail problems.
Hi Wombat
it might be worthwhile going back to your Mazda dealer and see if they will do the job for you
Cheers Micko
Vehicle raised about 35mm on rear. Ride not towing is better and not harsh at all.
Thanks Micko