Apologies ... but experience (and history) has shown that readers of forums rarely read the provided links fully, so I have snipped the following from that site.
However, please read the SITE IN FULL -
Cheers - and happy AND safe travelling - John
ants_oz said
11:29 AM Jan 11, 2017
Hi Rockylizard,
For what it's worth, I think the information you provided in incredibly valuable - I am absolutely certain that few people who look at upgrading the GVM on their vehicle realise the implications this has for the mass they can tow, should they choose to load their vehicles in such a way as to make use of the increased GVM.
Kudos to you for attempting to highlight it - public services are rarely acknowledged.
macka17 said
03:13 PM Jan 11, 2017
What have I been saying all along
about tug and trlr weights being a min of 400kg in favour of tug.
And Utes having safe limits around 2.5ton to tow. Safety and sensibilities wise.
Once it up to it's max weights.
People take too much notice of advertising.
which is only there to suit "advertisers...."
There ARE a lot out there. driving round with NO insurance.
Even though paying for such.
Always drive over scales b4 starting trip.
Cover your own arse.
Back in box.
Even though right.
ants_oz said
03:30 PM Jan 11, 2017
Seems to me Macka, that what Rockylizard posted was a description (including examples to help demonstrate the concept) of what is legally permissible, re: GVM and GCM.
The text does not in any way support your personal view regarding "trlr weights being a min of 400kg in favour of tug", nor does it support your claims that "Utes having safe limits around 2.5ton to tow". Seems you might be seeing things that aren't there....
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:24 PM Jan 11, 2017
Surely one thread on this subject is sufficient?
Now we have 3!!!
Cheers,
Peter
macka17 said
05:39 PM Jan 11, 2017
Didn't say it did.
But MOST other country's seem to agree. Normally around 20\25%.
Not maybe MY specific figure.
That's just MY feeling for safety. I try to keep nearer 6\700kg's.
And if you. Take a look at your. or any ute's figures.
Load it. Fitted bullbar etc as most are.
Then see what it can LEGALLY tow. with what drawbar weights.
I won't be too far off the mark I think you'll find.
To stay LEGAL in eyes of law and insurance.
I'm old school. I look at safety side over. what can I get away with side.
Or the dumb ones. (don't know)
People are just starting (though not wanting to) to realise such.
and the law is catching up. Finally.
macka17 said
06:27 PM Jan 11, 2017
Last word.
Reading into that. I saw a comment from Andrew Lovett?
Owner. designer, and builder of Bushtracker Caravans.
They have done a LOT of engineering and towing designs\testing on what would be the largest.
Heaviest most robust vans in this country.
Is his word more Acceptable, with more actual proven experience
over the learners and mouths on here.
Read it.
Basically. on this Lovells system.
Yes. They do upgrade the avail units here that are NOW sailing close to the wind
with their weights,
to bring them into "LEGAL" limits when carrying the water etc.
BUT. Prior to that.
He says.
that it DOES NOT make them any safer.
and their short wheelbase designs are basically lacking in that.
For safety. people should be using longer wheelbases for better grip and control on the road.
F150. Chevvy etc.
Small trucks and smaller vans does same thing at less cost..(my words.)
He and his engineers would KNOW more than most here could even dream of
as far as experience, engineering nouse goes.
Same as any trucky.
If what I write on here can prevent one weight overload. uncontrolled accident
through the reading of.
It's worth it. and up the knockers.
See Ya.
montie said
07:53 PM Jan 11, 2017
A GVM upgrade to the tug does not increase the GCM or towing capacity.
So basically the additional payload available may not be totally usable if the new upgraded combination of GVM plus ATM exceeds the rated GCM. This is very evident with many dual cab tugs claiming a tow capacity of 3.5 tonnes which when the combination is loaded to capacity assuming an ATM of 3.5 tonnes puts the rig considerably over the GCM rating.
In addition, it is advisable, (but not a legal requirement) that the loaded tug exceed the van loaded weight by at least 10%. In other words tug GVM exceeds van ATM. Being legal doesn't always mean it's safe! Montie
-- Edited by montie on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 07:59:06 PM
ants_oz said
07:53 PM Jan 11, 2017
Macka,
I don't dispute the point you are making re: the american trucks for one moment. They ARE the IDEAL solution when towing those vans which are every bit of 3.5T or some, even more.
However - and this is a pretty big consideration - plenty of people simply cannot afford the big yank truck (~$140k or more), and the caravan as well - if it came down to that, they would not be able to travel so they make what they think is a reasonable compromise. So they buy the mid weight dual cab (for less than 1/2 the price of the yank truck), and away they go - possibly having spend less on the ute AND the van, than if they had just bought the tank truck.
Agree that the advertisers and car company media reps have a lot to answer for.
Do I think people are doing the right thing by using these mid-sized utes to tow these big vans? No, I don't. But they THINK they are legal, so they assume all is good. I dunno the answer, because over many many years, 'consumer education' has failed umpteen times on vast numbers of different issues. I don't reckon this one would end up any different.
In the end, like you, it doesn't affect me - I don't have one of those medium sized utes.
ants_oz said
07:57 PM Jan 11, 2017
Monty,
You are correct of course, re: the GVM upgrade versus GCM issue. Not sure if you are aware of where this thread originated from however - there was discussion about GCM upgrades (which are available) and it sort of morphed into another thread on the subject... Rockylizard started this thread with the information posted to ensure that it wasn't lost in another thread - that GVM upgrade does not equate to increased GCM. (Increasing the GCM being a completely different beast...)
Anyway, just letting you know in case you were unaware.
montie said
08:00 PM Jan 11, 2017
ants_oz wrote:
Monty,
You are correct of course, re: the GVM upgrade versus GCM issue. Not sure if you are aware of where this thread originated from however - there was discussion about GCM upgrades (which are available) and it sort of morphed into another thread on the subject... Rockylizard started this thread with the information posted to ensure that it wasn't lost in another thread - that GVM upgrade does not equate to increased GCM. (Increasing the GCM being a completely different beast...)
Anyway, just letting you know in case you were unaware.
No worries Ant......long time no hear, good to hear from you again.
Montie
ants_oz said
08:06 PM Jan 11, 2017
You too my friend.
Its an interesting paradigm isn't it - the GCM issue being experienced by dual cab owners. I imagine it would cause you some unnecessary grief with advising those in the market for a new van.
montie said
08:14 PM Jan 11, 2017
ants_oz wrote:
You too my friend.
Its an interesting paradigm isn't it - the GCM issue being experienced by dual cab owners. I imagine it would cause you some unnecessary grief with advising those in the market for a new van.
We rarely sell a 3.5 tonne ATM van these days.
Mainly 2500kg to 2900kg is the norm so the problem doesn't really arise.
It is my personal view that a van with an ATM of 3.5 tonne requires an F truck to safely tow it.
Montie
macka17 said
11:22 AM Jan 12, 2017
OR. Small Isuzu. and other Japanese tray, dual cab TRUCKS.
Which are often cheaper, or same pricing As the current Toyota's\Patrols and fancy utes.
Plus THEY can normally carry a couple of tons While towing up to around 4 ton.
Plus. Plus. They LIKE a load on rears. With long and WIDE wheelbases.
ANTS.
The Toyota's are around $100\120k new. Patrols too nowadays. Utes up in mid\late $50k's. Trucks come in at that pricing. Plus give more than sufficient leeway in capacity and safety.
if you can afford to buy a 100plus LARGE van sometimes well over. You can afford to buy the proper tow vehicle for it.
If not.
You shouldn't be buying that van at all. Even if only out of respect for the safety of others on the road.
As I've said b4 and will keep doing so.
UTES. Loaded.
None are SAFE with much more than around 2.5 ton behind them. MAX. Mine rated 3 ton, tows just under 2 ton MAX.(1.87 ton) plated van.
You want to tow anything heavier. Buy the proper vehicles. Not Convenient ones.
One problem with these latest utes. Is a lot of owners fit winches. Bars. etc etc. Then never use them. (mostly) ALL for show. "LOOK at MYYYY truck"
If they took most of it off. they would have another 100ish Kg's to play with load wise.
I have a stainless "Nudge bar"with side wings. I can lift with left hand alone. NO winch. Carries Arials and light bar.
We Generally tugs not dirt veh's. That goes for 85\90% of us here.
Buy an old Toyota . Mitzi, or Disco for dirt play.
-- Edited by macka17 on Thursday 12th of January 2017 11:24:43 AM
ants_oz said
12:57 PM Jan 12, 2017
Macka - the Toyotas are up around that price (which I why I can certainly understand people cross-shopping into yank trucks when they start speeding that kind of coin). I own a Y62 Patrol though (one of the new ones - in top of the range Ti-L spec), and paid 55 grand ex-demo (not used). Now, that was a good deal - but the Ti spec Patrol (which equates to a VX spec LC200) is selling for early 60's drive away pricing. That's 80 grand less than the sticker price on a new chev or f250. 80 grand will pay for the van in many cases - actually, it would MORE than pay for our van, which was new back in August...
macka17 said
02:42 PM Jan 12, 2017
Your smack on there Anthony.
But new Patrols are same price as New Tojo's.
And same consumption on tests with Petrol v Diesel.
Those US Utes are magic.
I drive mates 3500 dual rears with 42 ft 5ther on back when over there.
That's a NICE rig.
BUt. I tend to advocate the Japanese trucks over those exxy things.
In this country.
Dual cab. Not so flash as Utes etc, but not bad.
WITH plenty of leeway with both weights and tow capacity.
AND fuel consumption.
My van back in '2000. was $77k on road. GU Patrol cost me $54\56 from memory 3 ltr.
Prices haven't changed much really, in those sizes.
but van sizes tended to rise. along with weights
Nobody, Really. Needs a van much more than 21ft outside. (19ft 4in, inside)
mine was. and 2245kg empty. 2.8ish loaded.
we lived in that one three months and more a yr. for 14 plus yrs.
Never much more than 1\2 full. with 3.2 ton susp under it.
We usually went around 3.3t tug. with tinny on roof and 2.5 -2,9ish for van, max.
Empty tanks mostly. and usually around 350 to 600 kg under limits.
Feels safe and controlling itself.
People, specially the touristy ones. (Annual and otherwise.)
Always take too much and consequently use heaps more fuel, wear tyres more, Doing so.
They'll learn.
You never see seasoned travellers with much more than an 18ft to 19ft 6 van max.
Some do but not many. They've learnt.
All they doing is spending more money for same trip otherwise.
Back to masking for some more new cork tiles on floor in van.
Look plain. But clean. WARM and soft under feet. Not like cold hard lino.
Plus washable.
ants_oz said
03:16 PM Jan 12, 2017
With all due respect Macka - the patrols are substantially cheaper than the LC200. I personally know of several people in the last few months who have purchased Ti model Y62 Patrols - for either March 2017 or July 2017 delivery (that's when the next two boats are due to deliver more stock) and ALL of them have paid in the region of 65-68,000. (I know what the consumption is for the new Patrol - I own one :) )
Your comments re: size of van suited your requirements- all good. Our requirements are different obviously, and having previously had a 19.5' (internal) van - I would not want to go back to that size again. I don't know whether your travels included kids or not, but ours do - and every inch of additional space is welcome.
Many of these "seasoned travellers" you talk about are empty-nest couples. They don't have the extra people (kids) to worry about. It makes quite a large difference.
My new van in August 2016 was only $74k, with a LOT of options and upgrades (such as solar upgrades, gas heating among others).
(I like cork - as you said - a warm soft flooring - but no good in the van for us, as dogs claws would scratch the heck out of it)
macka17 said
08:14 PM Jan 12, 2017
Ants.
The NEW model V8 Petrol only Patrol??.
Oh OK.
I see they dropped pricing from the mid,upper $85k's to around $69.
More sensible.
Yep. Most of us travellers are older sans kids. But a lot still drag them around.
Out of interest. My first two kids back in Mid .65 and Dec '66. were born, and raised in a caravan.
(Third one born Just after new house was completed).
Dragging round the motorways and Pipeline construction sites.
So I do know a little bit about kids and vans. in more extreme conditions. UK Winters,
and 20 miles in on muddy easements with no tyred access. Tracks only.
LandRover and dozers only. Always carried a chain.
People with large vans. Whether a Necessity or Want.
Should have tugs to suit. Safety and competence wise.
And at least nowadays you have these annexes to double size of van with visitors and kids.
We just had inside van walls
Mine used to love getting the tents out for individual Privacy.
Anway. Subject,
The big Patrols and Tojo's though having the power. Do not have the Physical size..
To tow those bigger vans safely.
Is yours inside ALL it's weight limits, on all axles. they vary
and are specified on Patrol book Or were on prev model.
Individual veh weights, and combined veh weights.
With towbar weight reduction limits..
You'd be one of the few nowadays if so.
I could get inside my max Combined, Comfortably.
but needed to shift stuff around a bit if getting stopped.
Patrol got me at 3.3ton. Inside limits. BUT.
If anybody weighed MY drawbar against the book.and weight reductions pertaining to.
I was gone.
It was waaay over ,the 350kg's stamped on compliance plate.
Most rear set suspension vans are. Just the design.
But MUCH better towing stability than centre set suspensions.
Distance from centre of, to towball essentially.
Longer triangle to ball, with shorter rear o'hang to rear of.
to swing you around
Whoops Cat wants his dinner cutting up. Prawns.
That's all he eats, combined with the bicky's.
Hewy54 said
09:49 PM Jan 12, 2017
Macka, I thought you said 3 posts ago "Last word"
aussie_paul said
10:18 PM Jan 12, 2017
Hewy54 wrote:
Macka, I thought you said 3 posts ago "Last word"
Can't help himself.
Aussie Paul.
macka17 said
12:00 AM Jan 13, 2017
New pill.
really gets the brain buzzing.
Sleep.Wot's dat.
Plus it's all getting out there.
Info on weights and responsibilities.
Shhh. Can't help himselft.
Roll on 29th Jan, when down to Brissie for implant the next day
Then hopefully sans pain.
or parts thereof.
Oh If only.
Just to reduce the drug level would be magic.
Can but hope hey.
Meanwhile. Gee' em all up..
ants_oz said
10:01 AM Jan 13, 2017
Yes Macka, the 'new' V8 petrol model. And yes, the price drop was the only sensible thing they could do, if they wanted to sell some :)
My vehicle is basically bog standard - I don't see the need for all the bar work and other accoutrements that people fit. Our van 'only' has an ATM of 3212 (after I requested a 200kg increase prior to manufacture). Our total travelling weight is around 6200kg (for the rig) - so ~800 kg UNDER the GCM. Axle weights while laden - never wrote them down when I went to the weigh bridge as I was so far under it wasn't even close.
Just common safety sense in my opinion to know what I am dealing with.
macka17 said
07:38 PM Jan 13, 2017
Sounds REAL good. Anthony.
Drop it in for 6 wheel all drive conversion
then you can tow anything anywhere hey.
chuckle.
DOn't know that I like the look of latest cars though.
Reckon the GQ and 60 ser Tojo would be top of looks list.
In my eyes.
They LOOK four wheel drivey.
Same as I prefer the earlier 2010 D-Max looks to latest.
(Too much plasticky for me)
I'd just check axles though when you have a spare minit.
ONE axle over. He in bad mood and looking.
You could go.
It's too easy to do.
Enjoy it though. (Gas viable for road work?)
Made a difference to my Fairlanes and 60 ser.
Gday...
Please read this site ALL THE WAY THROUGH ....
http://www.statewide4x4.com.au/gvm-products/faqs.aspx
Apologies ... but experience (and history) has shown that readers of forums rarely read the provided links fully, so I have snipped the following from that site.
However, please read the SITE IN FULL -
Cheers - and happy AND safe travelling - John
For what it's worth, I think the information you provided in incredibly valuable - I am absolutely certain that few people who look at upgrading the GVM on their vehicle realise the implications this has for the mass they can tow, should they choose to load their vehicles in such a way as to make use of the increased GVM.
Kudos to you for attempting to highlight it - public services are rarely acknowledged.
about tug and trlr weights being a min of 400kg in favour of tug.
And Utes having safe limits around 2.5ton to tow. Safety and sensibilities wise.
Once it up to it's max weights.
People take too much notice of advertising.
which is only there to suit "advertisers...."
There ARE a lot out there. driving round with NO insurance.
Even though paying for such.
Always drive over scales b4 starting trip.
Cover your own arse.
Back in box.
Even though right.
The text does not in any way support your personal view regarding "trlr weights being a min of 400kg in favour of tug", nor does it support your claims that "Utes having safe limits around 2.5ton to tow". Seems you might be seeing things that aren't there....
Now we have 3!!!
Cheers,
Peter
But MOST other country's seem to agree. Normally around 20\25%.
Not maybe MY specific figure.
That's just MY feeling for safety. I try to keep nearer 6\700kg's.
And if you. Take a look at your. or any ute's figures.
Load it. Fitted bullbar etc as most are.
Then see what it can LEGALLY tow. with what drawbar weights.
I won't be too far off the mark I think you'll find.
To stay LEGAL in eyes of law and insurance.
I'm old school. I look at safety side over. what can I get away with side.
Or the dumb ones. (don't know)
People are just starting (though not wanting to) to realise such.
and the law is catching up. Finally.
Reading into that. I saw a comment from Andrew Lovett?
Owner. designer, and builder of Bushtracker Caravans.
They have done a LOT of engineering and towing designs\testing on what would be the largest.
Heaviest most robust vans in this country.
Is his word more Acceptable, with more actual proven experience
over the learners and mouths on here.
Read it.
Basically. on this Lovells system.
Yes. They do upgrade the avail units here that are NOW sailing close to the wind
with their weights,
to bring them into "LEGAL" limits when carrying the water etc.
BUT. Prior to that.
He says.
that it DOES NOT make them any safer.
and their short wheelbase designs are basically lacking in that.
For safety. people should be using longer wheelbases for better grip and control on the road.
F150. Chevvy etc.
Small trucks and smaller vans does same thing at less cost..(my words.)
He and his engineers would KNOW more than most here could even dream of
as far as experience, engineering nouse goes.
Same as any trucky.
If what I write on here can prevent one weight overload. uncontrolled accident
through the reading of.
It's worth it. and up the knockers.
See Ya.
A GVM upgrade to the tug does not increase the GCM or towing capacity.
So basically the additional payload available may not be totally usable if the new upgraded combination of GVM plus ATM exceeds the rated GCM.
This is very evident with many dual cab tugs claiming a tow capacity of 3.5 tonnes which when the combination is loaded to capacity assuming an ATM of 3.5 tonnes puts the rig considerably over the GCM rating.
In addition, it is advisable, (but not a legal requirement) that the loaded tug exceed the van loaded weight by at least 10%.
In other words tug GVM exceeds van ATM.
Being legal doesn't always mean it's safe!
Montie
-- Edited by montie on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 07:59:06 PM
I don't dispute the point you are making re: the american trucks for one moment. They ARE the IDEAL solution when towing those vans which are every bit of 3.5T or some, even more.
However - and this is a pretty big consideration - plenty of people simply cannot afford the big yank truck (~$140k or more), and the caravan as well - if it came down to that, they would not be able to travel so they make what they think is a reasonable compromise. So they buy the mid weight dual cab (for less than 1/2 the price of the yank truck), and away they go - possibly having spend less on the ute AND the van, than if they had just bought the tank truck.
Agree that the advertisers and car company media reps have a lot to answer for.
Do I think people are doing the right thing by using these mid-sized utes to tow these big vans? No, I don't. But they THINK they are legal, so they assume all is good. I dunno the answer, because over many many years, 'consumer education' has failed umpteen times on vast numbers of different issues. I don't reckon this one would end up any different.
In the end, like you, it doesn't affect me - I don't have one of those medium sized utes.
You are correct of course, re: the GVM upgrade versus GCM issue. Not sure if you are aware of where this thread originated from however - there was discussion about GCM upgrades (which are available) and it sort of morphed into another thread on the subject... Rockylizard started this thread with the information posted to ensure that it wasn't lost in another thread - that GVM upgrade does not equate to increased GCM. (Increasing the GCM being a completely different beast...)
Anyway, just letting you know in case you were unaware.
No worries Ant......long time no hear, good to hear from you again.
Montie
Its an interesting paradigm isn't it - the GCM issue being experienced by dual cab owners. I imagine it would cause you some unnecessary grief with advising those in the market for a new van.
We rarely sell a 3.5 tonne ATM van these days.
Mainly 2500kg to 2900kg is the norm so the problem doesn't really arise.
It is my personal view that a van with an ATM of 3.5 tonne requires an F truck to safely tow it.
Montie
OR. Small Isuzu. and other Japanese tray, dual cab TRUCKS.
Which are often cheaper, or same pricing
As the current Toyota's\Patrols and fancy utes.
Plus THEY can normally carry a couple of tons
While towing up to around 4 ton.
Plus. Plus.
They LIKE a load on rears.
With long and WIDE wheelbases.
ANTS.
The Toyota's are around $100\120k new. Patrols too nowadays.
Utes up in mid\late $50k's.
Trucks come in at that pricing.
Plus give more than sufficient leeway in capacity and safety.
if you can afford to buy a 100plus LARGE van sometimes well over.
You can afford to buy the proper tow vehicle for it.
If not.
You shouldn't be buying that van at all.
Even if only out of respect for the safety of others on the road.
As I've said b4 and will keep doing so.
UTES. Loaded.
None are SAFE with much more than around 2.5 ton behind them. MAX.
Mine rated 3 ton, tows just under 2 ton MAX.(1.87 ton) plated van.
You want to tow anything heavier.
Buy the proper vehicles. Not Convenient ones.
One problem with these latest utes. Is a lot of owners fit winches. Bars. etc etc.
Then never use them. (mostly)
ALL for show. "LOOK at MYYYY truck"
If they took most of it off.
they would have another 100ish Kg's to play with load wise.
I have a stainless "Nudge bar"with side wings.
I can lift with left hand alone. NO winch. Carries Arials and light bar.
We Generally tugs not dirt veh's.
That goes for 85\90% of us here.
Buy an old Toyota . Mitzi, or Disco for dirt play.
-- Edited by macka17 on Thursday 12th of January 2017 11:24:43 AM
But new Patrols are same price as New Tojo's.
And same consumption on tests with Petrol v Diesel.
Those US Utes are magic.
I drive mates 3500 dual rears with 42 ft 5ther on back when over there.
That's a NICE rig.
BUt. I tend to advocate the Japanese trucks over those exxy things.
In this country.
Dual cab. Not so flash as Utes etc, but not bad.
WITH plenty of leeway with both weights and tow capacity.
AND fuel consumption.
My van back in '2000. was $77k on road. GU Patrol cost me $54\56 from memory 3 ltr.
Prices haven't changed much really, in those sizes.
but van sizes tended to rise. along with weights
Nobody, Really. Needs a van much more than 21ft outside. (19ft 4in, inside)
mine was. and 2245kg empty. 2.8ish loaded.
we lived in that one three months and more a yr. for 14 plus yrs.
Never much more than 1\2 full. with 3.2 ton susp under it.
We usually went around 3.3t tug. with tinny on roof and 2.5 -2,9ish for van, max.
Empty tanks mostly. and usually around 350 to 600 kg under limits.
Feels safe and controlling itself.
People, specially the touristy ones. (Annual and otherwise.)
Always take too much and consequently use heaps more fuel, wear tyres more, Doing so.
They'll learn.
You never see seasoned travellers with much more than an 18ft to 19ft 6 van max.
Some do but not many. They've learnt.
All they doing is spending more money for same trip otherwise.
Back to masking for some more new cork tiles on floor in van.
Look plain. But clean. WARM and soft under feet. Not like cold hard lino.
Plus washable.
Your comments re: size of van suited your requirements- all good. Our requirements are different obviously, and having previously had a 19.5' (internal) van - I would not want to go back to that size again. I don't know whether your travels included kids or not, but ours do - and every inch of additional space is welcome.
Many of these "seasoned travellers" you talk about are empty-nest couples. They don't have the extra people (kids) to worry about. It makes quite a large difference.
My new van in August 2016 was only $74k, with a LOT of options and upgrades (such as solar upgrades, gas heating among others).
(I like cork - as you said - a warm soft flooring - but no good in the van for us, as dogs claws would scratch the heck out of it)
The NEW model V8 Petrol only Patrol??.
Oh OK.
I see they dropped pricing from the mid,upper $85k's to around $69.
More sensible.
Yep. Most of us travellers are older sans kids. But a lot still drag them around.
Out of interest. My first two kids back in Mid .65 and Dec '66. were born, and raised in a caravan.
(Third one born Just after new house was completed).
Dragging round the motorways and Pipeline construction sites.
So I do know a little bit about kids and vans. in more extreme conditions. UK Winters,
and 20 miles in on muddy easements with no tyred access. Tracks only.
LandRover and dozers only. Always carried a chain.
People with large vans. Whether a Necessity or Want.
Should have tugs to suit. Safety and competence wise.
And at least nowadays you have these annexes to double size of van with visitors and kids.
We just had inside van walls
Mine used to love getting the tents out for individual Privacy.
Anway. Subject,
The big Patrols and Tojo's though having the power. Do not have the Physical size..
To tow those bigger vans safely.
Is yours inside ALL it's weight limits, on all axles. they vary
and are specified on Patrol book Or were on prev model.
Individual veh weights, and combined veh weights.
With towbar weight reduction limits..
You'd be one of the few nowadays if so.
I could get inside my max Combined, Comfortably.
but needed to shift stuff around a bit if getting stopped.
Patrol got me at 3.3ton. Inside limits. BUT.
If anybody weighed MY drawbar against the book.and weight reductions pertaining to.
I was gone.
It was waaay over ,the 350kg's stamped on compliance plate.
Most rear set suspension vans are. Just the design.
But MUCH better towing stability than centre set suspensions.
Distance from centre of, to towball essentially.
Longer triangle to ball, with shorter rear o'hang to rear of.
to swing you around
Whoops Cat wants his dinner cutting up. Prawns.
That's all he eats, combined with the bicky's.
Can't help himself.
Aussie Paul.
really gets the brain buzzing.
Sleep.Wot's dat.
Plus it's all getting out there.
Info on weights and responsibilities.
Shhh. Can't help himselft.
Roll on 29th Jan, when down to Brissie for implant the next day
Then hopefully sans pain.
or parts thereof.
Oh If only.
Just to reduce the drug level would be magic.
Can but hope hey.
Meanwhile. Gee' em all up..
My vehicle is basically bog standard - I don't see the need for all the bar work and other accoutrements that people fit. Our van 'only' has an ATM of 3212 (after I requested a 200kg increase prior to manufacture). Our total travelling weight is around 6200kg (for the rig) - so ~800 kg UNDER the GCM. Axle weights while laden - never wrote them down when I went to the weigh bridge as I was so far under it wasn't even close.
Just common safety sense in my opinion to know what I am dealing with.
Drop it in for 6 wheel all drive conversion
then you can tow anything anywhere hey.
chuckle.
DOn't know that I like the look of latest cars though.
Reckon the GQ and 60 ser Tojo would be top of looks list.
In my eyes.
They LOOK four wheel drivey.
Same as I prefer the earlier 2010 D-Max looks to latest.
(Too much plasticky for me)
I'd just check axles though when you have a spare minit.
ONE axle over. He in bad mood and looking.
You could go.
It's too easy to do.
Enjoy it though. (Gas viable for road work?)
Made a difference to my Fairlanes and 60 ser.