My Talvor caravan has a little sway problem aound the 90klms hour mark, what would be the cheapest fix, would it be fitting levelling bars or
the big expence of al-ko anti sway.....thanks for any help
Dougwe said
07:22 PM Feb 13, 2017
Welcome to the gang colmal, enjoy here and out in the playground.
My thoughts only. Have you checked the loading and weights? if they are over, can contribute to your problem.
I have load of the tug and den all weighted correctly and both under weight. I also tend to not go over 95kmh. If any sway occures at all I back off a little. Seems to work for me.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
colmal said
09:04 PM Feb 13, 2017
thank you for your input chief, happy travels
Hylife said
09:36 PM Feb 13, 2017
First things are to check the weights of your drawbar and the capabilities of the tow vehicle. Next check how you have got the van loaded.
Almost all Talvor's I have seen are tandem axel and they should be quite stable if you have the van loaded correctly. Too much weight at the front or rear can cause sway. Always keep the heavy stuff over the axels. Don't load up the front kitchen or under the bed with heavy stuff. Don't fit items to the rear bumper or the front drawbar.
Remember that everything forward of the axels adds weight to the towbar. Perhaps you can remove some stuff from the front storage locker. Remember that everything behind the axels makes the dogs tail wag.
Measure the height from the ground to the highest point of the tow vehicle's wheel arch (front and rear). If the rear sags down more than 50mm or the front rises by more than 25mm then there is too much weight on the rear of the tow vehicle. Sometimes this can be rectified simply by redistributing items in the van and sometimes with level rides and sometimes the suspension needs and upgrade.
macka17 said
11:11 PM Feb 13, 2017
Before you start.
Find a local dump or weighbridge.
Weigh car then van individually then dawbar weight.
That'll give you starters.
Make sure tug is a decent weight HEAVIER than van.
Over 5 mtr van. I'd be recommending a WDH of some description.
New OR second hand.
THEN start looking at interior of van What is where and why.
I ALWAYS travel with empty tanks on long trips. Just a 20ltr for drinking.
Fill tanks when we get near wherever. (270+ltrs\kg's in weight)
Park on level piece of whatever. And look at profile of rig.
Car. Front to back. Van Front to back.
Also back car to but not hitched to van. Are the couplings level and in line. Not one higher\lower than other.
That will cause stresses.
are either dipped either way up or down. Are they both in line and level from front to back.
Adjust hitch\ball height to suit if needed.
If all level. and your veh weights right.
Probably load in back half of van.swinging it. Or a light on rear of car.
You need the car weight more than trailer, and rear of car well weighed and level.
To control any swinging of rig.
If yours one of those lightweight Fibreglass ones, even the spare on rear can make difference.
meetoo said
11:41 PM Feb 13, 2017
Hi colmal, all the above are good advice, however, to answer you question, the cheapest fix, might be to slow down some.
Cheers, John.
C00P said
11:44 PM Feb 13, 2017
Take a look here: www.youtube.com/watch
It's a good demonstration of how to distribute weight in your van to enhance stability.
Cheers
Coop
KevinC said
08:05 AM Feb 14, 2017
colmal wrote:
My Talvor caravan has a little sway problem aound the 90klms hour mark, what would be the cheapest fix, would it be fitting levelling bars or
the big expence of al-ko anti sway.....thanks for any help
It's my belief that all the money spent on bars will be wasted since they don't control sway. Therefore the answer to your question would have to be the AL-KO anti sway kit. There are times when the best loaded van will come unstuck, like when you swerve to miss an animal or person or oncoming car. I think the cost of the AL-KO is worth it.
Big Mal said
11:37 AM Feb 14, 2017
Usually the way it's loaded as stated above and it should sit level but also make sure you have the correct tyre pressure. Fitting of a sway bar system before solving the problem only hides it, a trailer should run true and they should be fitted to assist in times of need...
C00P said
12:59 PM Feb 14, 2017
This article: caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/caravan-dynamics/
Gives a very comprehensive description of the physics of car/van behaviour when towing, including the effects of various parameters on yawing and pitching. I was able to identify a couple of changes I could make on my van to improve its stability. The author points out that all van/tug combinations have a "critical speed" beyond which swaying is likely to build up rather than damp out. The aim is to get the tug/van set up in such a way that this critical speed is higher than the speed at which you usually tow.
Sounds like your critical speed might by in the 90kph area, so there may be some changes you can make to increase it.
Hope that's useful,
Cheers
Coop
boab said
08:29 PM Feb 14, 2017
Hi colmal we had a similar problem many years ago i extended the draw bar which fixed it i also had reese dual cam anti sway bars and wdh fitted as well it worked for me
montie said
08:35 AM Feb 15, 2017
colmal wrote:
My Talvor caravan has a little sway problem aound the 90klms hour mark, what would be the cheapest fix, would it be fitting levelling bars or
the big expence of al-ko anti sway.....thanks for any help
Colmal,
First thing I would do is measure the ball weight of the loaded caravan. It should come in at around 10% of your ATM.
We had some experience with some Talvors, the 550A from memory, that required relocating water tanks forward to get a better ball weight.
Have a look underneath the van and check the position of the tanks.
Hope this helps
Montie
macka17 said
11:11 AM Feb 15, 2017
Unless you already have a rear set suspension caravan.
Extending drawbar (with engineering). IS the safest most stablity improving thing you can do to ANY trailer.
van or otherwise.
Plus making it easier to back.
My 2 water tanks were rear of susp. I added another 90ltr front of to equalise a bit.
Still carried full size 4wd spare and 2 x 25 ltr diesel cans on rear bar with rods.
Ensuring a heavy draw bar. = high stability.
6.5mtr Roadstar Tandem semi offroad. with GU 3 ltr patrol and chip.
I ALWAYS buy semi... offroaders. for TWO reasons.
Higher off ground for my super steep lip to drive acces. But primarily.
A good quality mfg. Builds them a LOT stronger all round than a road version.
Glue. screws. Staples and bolts hold them together.
with better quality. thicker\stronger\heavier materials.
Much better van for longer life. with NO problems (normally)
I've forgotten myself a coupla times (dreaming) and had to winch the thing out of a coupla fishing spots.
But normally. Off roading = van in park somewhere. us in tent\tarp on side of river.
with a shovel.
No van over 11 ft is a real OFF roader. Early Supremes and small Phoenix are about the only true off roaders.
They the ones the true fossickers use.
But equalising balance and vehicles to each other, are the most important points.
with a PRE weighing on scales beforehand so you know where to stand.
Otherwise it's all guesswork.
I know my D-Max EMPTY.( with spare but no tools, second battery etc.)
with 1\2 tank diesel and self. weighs 2.2ton exactly.
Loaded for trip it rises to 2.8\95 ton.
Van empty is 1.46t.
loaded. around 1.7 to 1.9 ton. (allowed 2 ton max)
WITHOUT starting figures. you can't do that.
My big vans always had over 350kg on ball. Safer.
this one is around 200\220
Extended drawbar on the way. rearwards as well as longer out front.
But I have to swap my welders from AC to DC with this implant. first. Annoying.
Can't even go NEAR AC welding of any type.
Anybody want a Peerless 180 full copper coils on wheels stick welder.
Will cut plate with 1\2 in bolt and amps up . Smooth as flow.
Plus a new CIG 130a Inverter stick\Tig.
had about 6 1\2 sticks through it. cost $370.
Desert Dweller said
07:20 PM Feb 15, 2017
A slight loading problem, easily fixed by a redistribution of weight. Who needs to travel above 95kph when towing anyway?
You're retired & don't have to be anywhere at any particular time, relax, what's the hurry.
At 90kph plus you're being a responsible senior driver not a retired cowboy.
montie said
09:14 PM Feb 15, 2017
macka17 wrote:
Unless you already have a rear set suspension caravan.
Extending drawbar (with engineering). IS the safest most stablity improving thing you can do to ANY trailer. van or otherwise. Plus making it easier to back.
My 2 water tanks were rear of susp. I added another 90ltr front of to equalise a bit. Still carried full size 4wd spare and 2 x 25 ltr diesel cans on rear bar with rods.
Ensuring a heavy draw bar. = high stability. 6.5mtr Roadstar Tandem semi offroad. with GU 3 ltr patrol and chip.
I ALWAYS buy semi... offroaders. for TWO reasons. Higher off ground for my super steep lip to drive acces. But primarily.
A good quality mfg. Builds them a LOT stronger all round than a road version. Glue. screws. Staples and bolts hold them together. with better quality. thicker\stronger\heavier materials. Much better van for longer life. with NO problems (normally)
I've forgotten myself a coupla times (dreaming) and had to winch the thing out of a coupla fishing spots. But normally. Off roading = van in park somewhere. us in tent\tarp on side of river. with a shovel. No van over 11 ft is a real OFF roader. Early Supremes and small Phoenix are about the only true off roaders. They the ones the true fossickers use.
But equalising balance and vehicles to each other, are the most important points. with a PRE weighing on scales beforehand so you know where to stand. Otherwise it's all guesswork. I know my D-Max EMPTY.( with spare but no tools, second battery etc.) with 1\2 tank diesel and self. weighs 2.2ton exactly. Loaded for trip it rises to 2.8\95 ton. Van empty is 1.46t. loaded. around 1.7 to 1.9 ton. (allowed 2 ton max) WITHOUT starting figures. you can't do that.
My big vans always had over 350kg on ball. Safer. this one is around 200\220 Extended drawbar on the way. rearwards as well as longer out front.
But I have to swap my welders from AC to DC with this implant. first. Annoying. Can't even go NEAR AC welding of any type.
Anybody want a Peerless 180 full copper coils on wheels stick welder. Will cut plate with 1\2 in bolt and amps up . Smooth as flow.
Plus a new CIG 130a Inverter stick\Tig. had about 6 1\2 sticks through it. cost $370.
Well that explains it all very clearly!
Not sure what the ramblings about copper coils, welders, "real off roaders" etc., etc., has got to do with the OP's question.
Monty
Bill B said
09:52 PM Feb 15, 2017
meetoo wrote:
Hi colmal, all the above are good advice, however, to answer you question, the cheapest fix, might be to slow down some.
Cheers, John.
If a rig can't travel at 90 kph without developing a sway it has serious issues.
Is the rig set up so that it is level ?
What is the total weight of the van loaded for travel and what is the ball weight in this state ?
macka17 said
11:16 AM Feb 16, 2017
Monty.
Was just getting in a flyer about welders for sale. (I can'tusee AC anymore because of frequency's.)
PLUS. anybody got a DC welder they may sell?
montie said
01:35 PM Feb 16, 2017
macka17 wrote:
Monty.
Was just getting in a flyer about welders for sale. (I can'tusee AC anymore because of frequency's.) PLUS. anybody got a DC welder they may sell?
Can't help you with that one Macka
Montie
colmal said
08:51 PM Feb 16, 2017
I am so happy to have joined this fantastic forum, so many well travelled and wise members so willing to help, A BIG THANK YOU to all of you great people
My Talvor caravan has a little sway problem aound the 90klms hour mark, what would be the cheapest fix, would it be fitting levelling bars or
the big expence of al-ko anti sway.....thanks for any help
My thoughts only. Have you checked the loading and weights? if they are over, can contribute to your problem.
I have load of the tug and den all weighted correctly and both under weight. I also tend to not go over 95kmh. If any sway occures at all I back off a little. Seems to work for me.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
First things are to check the weights of your drawbar and the capabilities of the tow vehicle. Next check how you have got the van loaded.
Almost all Talvor's I have seen are tandem axel and they should be quite stable if you have the van loaded correctly.
Too much weight at the front or rear can cause sway. Always keep the heavy stuff over the axels.
Don't load up the front kitchen or under the bed with heavy stuff.
Don't fit items to the rear bumper or the front drawbar.
Remember that everything forward of the axels adds weight to the towbar. Perhaps you can remove some stuff from the front storage locker.
Remember that everything behind the axels makes the dogs tail wag.
Measure the height from the ground to the highest point of the tow vehicle's wheel arch (front and rear). If the rear sags down more than 50mm or the front rises by more than 25mm then there is too much weight on the rear of the tow vehicle. Sometimes this can be rectified simply by redistributing items in the van and sometimes with level rides and sometimes the suspension needs and upgrade.
Find a local dump or weighbridge.
Weigh car then van individually then dawbar weight.
That'll give you starters.
Make sure tug is a decent weight HEAVIER than van.
Over 5 mtr van. I'd be recommending a WDH of some description.
New OR second hand.
THEN start looking at interior of van What is where and why.
I ALWAYS travel with empty tanks on long trips. Just a 20ltr for drinking.
Fill tanks when we get near wherever. (270+ltrs\kg's in weight)
Park on level piece of whatever. And look at profile of rig.
Car. Front to back. Van Front to back.
Also back car to but not hitched to van. Are the couplings level and in line. Not one higher\lower than other.
That will cause stresses.
are either dipped either way up or down. Are they both in line and level from front to back.
Adjust hitch\ball height to suit if needed.
If all level. and your veh weights right.
Probably load in back half of van.swinging it. Or a light on rear of car.
You need the car weight more than trailer, and rear of car well weighed and level.
To control any swinging of rig.
If yours one of those lightweight Fibreglass ones, even the spare on rear can make difference.
Hi colmal, all the above are good advice, however, to answer you question, the cheapest fix, might be to slow down some.
Cheers, John.
www.youtube.com/watch
It's a good demonstration of how to distribute weight in your van to enhance stability.
Cheers
Coop
It's my belief that all the money spent on bars will be wasted since they don't control sway. Therefore the answer to your question would have to be the AL-KO anti sway kit. There are times when the best loaded van will come unstuck, like when you swerve to miss an animal or person or oncoming car. I think the cost of the AL-KO is worth it.
caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/caravan-dynamics/
Gives a very comprehensive description of the physics of car/van behaviour when towing, including the effects of various parameters on yawing and pitching. I was able to identify a couple of changes I could make on my van to improve its stability. The author points out that all van/tug combinations have a "critical speed" beyond which swaying is likely to build up rather than damp out. The aim is to get the tug/van set up in such a way that this critical speed is higher than the speed at which you usually tow.
Sounds like your critical speed might by in the 90kph area, so there may be some changes you can make to increase it.
Hope that's useful,
Cheers
Coop
Colmal,
First thing I would do is measure the ball weight of the loaded caravan. It should come in at around 10% of your ATM.
We had some experience with some Talvors, the 550A from memory, that required relocating water tanks forward to get a better ball weight.
Have a look underneath the van and check the position of the tanks.
Hope this helps
Montie
Extending drawbar (with engineering). IS the safest most stablity improving thing you can do to ANY trailer.
van or otherwise.
Plus making it easier to back.
My 2 water tanks were rear of susp. I added another 90ltr front of to equalise a bit.
Still carried full size 4wd spare and 2 x 25 ltr diesel cans on rear bar with rods.
Ensuring a heavy draw bar. = high stability.
6.5mtr Roadstar Tandem semi offroad. with GU 3 ltr patrol and chip.
I ALWAYS buy semi... offroaders. for TWO reasons.
Higher off ground for my super steep lip to drive acces. But primarily.
A good quality mfg. Builds them a LOT stronger all round than a road version.
Glue. screws. Staples and bolts hold them together.
with better quality. thicker\stronger\heavier materials.
Much better van for longer life. with NO problems (normally)
I've forgotten myself a coupla times (dreaming) and had to winch the thing out of a coupla fishing spots.
But normally. Off roading = van in park somewhere. us in tent\tarp on side of river.
with a shovel.
No van over 11 ft is a real OFF roader. Early Supremes and small Phoenix are about the only true off roaders.
They the ones the true fossickers use.
But equalising balance and vehicles to each other, are the most important points.
with a PRE weighing on scales beforehand so you know where to stand.
Otherwise it's all guesswork.
I know my D-Max EMPTY.( with spare but no tools, second battery etc.)
with 1\2 tank diesel and self. weighs 2.2ton exactly.
Loaded for trip it rises to 2.8\95 ton.
Van empty is 1.46t.
loaded. around 1.7 to 1.9 ton. (allowed 2 ton max)
WITHOUT starting figures. you can't do that.
My big vans always had over 350kg on ball. Safer.
this one is around 200\220
Extended drawbar on the way. rearwards as well as longer out front.
But I have to swap my welders from AC to DC with this implant. first. Annoying.
Can't even go NEAR AC welding of any type.
Anybody want a Peerless 180 full copper coils on wheels stick welder.
Will cut plate with 1\2 in bolt and amps up . Smooth as flow.
Plus a new CIG 130a Inverter stick\Tig.
had about 6 1\2 sticks through it. cost $370.
A slight loading problem, easily fixed by a redistribution of weight. Who needs to travel above 95kph when towing anyway?
You're retired & don't have to be anywhere at any particular time, relax, what's the hurry.
At 90kph plus you're being a responsible senior driver not a retired cowboy.
Well that explains it all very clearly!
Not sure what the ramblings about copper coils, welders, "real off roaders" etc., etc., has got to do with the OP's question.
Monty
If a rig can't travel at 90 kph without developing a sway it has serious issues.
Is the rig set up so that it is level ?
What is the total weight of the van loaded for travel and what is the ball weight in this state ?
Was just getting in a flyer about welders for sale. (I can'tusee AC anymore because of frequency's.)
PLUS. anybody got a DC welder they may sell?
Can't help you with that one Macka
Montie