After doing plenty of research on airbag and wdh, this video clearly shows how much safer wd is compared with airbags.
Thoughts please...
Kezngaz.
rockylizard said
11:10 AM Mar 17, 2017
Gday...
It has always been evident that airbags are simply a way of 'jacking up' the rear suspension - and are not a weight DISTRIBUTION device.
Also quite evident that the product is called a Weight DISTRIBUTION Hitch because it actually DISTRIBUTES weight to and between axles.
However, if one notes the 'weight' placed in the trailer by the folk performing this 'test' it seems to be a fair way in front of the trailer axles. It begs the question if they distributed the 'load' in the trailer differently whether it would have shown up such stark differences.
Cheers - John
kezngaz said
11:54 AM Mar 17, 2017
Hi jonh.
Is the weight placed not relevent to the tow vehicles tow ball rate?
Surely it would work on a percentace basis?
Im still learning as im sure we all are, and what suprised me was how the airbag setup actually reduces weight on the tugs front axle, in effect acting as a pivot point.
Kezngaz.
The Belmont Bear said
03:46 PM Mar 17, 2017
Hi kezngaz, I use both a WDH along with rear suspension airbags that I had fitted by Pedders. First I use the WDH to level the load then I inflate the bags to only 12Psi to support the back coils and prevent the tug from bouncing on undulating surfaces. When I'm not towing I deflate the bags back to 5Psi so that the car rides more comfortably when driving around town. Works well for me with the Pajero Sport pulling around 2.6T loaded - just need to play around with my tyre pressures now to find that ideal balance.
rockylizard said
05:06 PM Mar 17, 2017
kezngaz wrote:
Hi jonh. Is the weight placed not relevent to the tow vehicles tow ball rate? Surely it would work on a percentace basis? Im still learning as im sure we all are, and what suprised me was how the airbag setup actually reduces weight on the tugs front axle, in effect acting as a pivot point. Kezngaz.
Gday...
The first thing that should be done when loading a caravan (or trailer for that matter) is to position the load in such a way as to have a balanced outfit.
Too much weight forward of the trailer/van's axle will increase the towball weight. This can have two effects a) make the trailer/van more stable (or unstable) and b) place 'excessive' weight on the towball - affecting the stability/drive-ability of the the vehicle.
Similarly, too little weight forward of the trailer/van's axle - particularly if rearward of the axle - can make the whole rig - both van AND vehicle - unstable and usually quite unsafe.
The secret is to load the van in such a way as to DISTRIBUTE the load as equitably as possible to get the best/correct balance. Then........ and ONLY then ..... should one begin to 'experiment' with suspensions modifications (including air bags) and or the attachment of a WDH - and the chain tensions of the WDH used to 'level the outfit'.
Despite all the hoo-haa, it is not rocket science. Just thoughtful application of loading and then careful trial and error to get the best and SAFEST outcome for towing.
Cheers - and now we wait for that to draw comments of derision - John
PeterD said
10:21 PM Mar 17, 2017
rockylizard wrote:However, if one notes the 'weight' placed in the trailer by the folk performing this 'test' it seems to be a fair way in front of the trailer axles. It begs the question if they distributed the 'load' in the trailer differently whether it would have shown up such stark differences.
John there may be less criticism if they had used a heavier trailer. However what they were showing the effect of having 1,000 lbs on the ball. A heavier trailer could be built with with the same weight on the ball and also at the same time have the centre of gravity closer to the axle than trailer used in the demo.
The other thing I saw was the weight increase on the tug was a fraction higher than the 1,000 lb ball weight. This would be because of things like the change of trim with the trailer in a more nose down attitude when hitched and also may have had something to do with the suspension of the trailer not properly weight sharing.
Even with these warts I still consider it to be an exercise in demonstrating the effects of WDH.
Craig1 said
10:51 PM Mar 17, 2017
When you do buy and fit, be very careful in applying tension to chains. DO NOT wear thongs, and DO NOT have your toes or feet under the bars. I have a mate who we sometimes call stumpy if we want a stir. But very painful and costly to lose a toe and rehab. But a great asset for towing imho. cheers Craig
SouthernComfort said
08:59 AM Mar 18, 2017
rockylizard wrote:
kezngaz wrote:
Hi jonh. Is the weight placed not relevent to the tow vehicles tow ball rate? Surely it would work on a percentace basis? Im still learning as im sure we all are, and what suprised me was how the airbag setup actually reduces weight on the tugs front axle, in effect acting as a pivot point. Kezngaz.
Gday...
The first thing that should be done when loading a caravan (or trailer for that matter) is to position the load in such a way as to have a balanced outfit.
Too much weight forward of the trailer/van's axle will increase the towball weight. This can have two effects a) make the trailer/van more stable (or unstable) and b) place 'excessive' weight on the towball - affecting the stability/drive-ability of the the vehicle.
Similarly, too little weight forward of the trailer/van's axle - particularly if rearward of the axle - can make the whole rig - both van AND vehicle - unstable and usually quite unsafe.
The secret is to load the van in such a way as to DISTRIBUTE the load as equitably as possible to get the best/correct balance. Then........ and ONLY then ..... should one begin to 'experiment' with suspensions modifications (including air bags) and or the attachment of a WDH - and the chain tensions of the WDH used to 'level the outfit'.
Despite all the hoo-haa, it is not rocket science. Just thoughtful application of loading and then careful trial and error to get the best and SAFEST outcome for towing.
Cheers - and now we wait for that to draw comments of derision - John
I use a WDH and no handling issues experienced. But the challenge in weight balancing isn't helped by the design of many vans which have a bias to forward storage. I'd say 90% of the storage capacity in my (new) van is forward of the axle. Cupboards and drawers are distributed across the interior fairly evenly, but storage for the weighty stuff is provided for in the front tunnel boot and the under-bed cavity. No matter hard I try, my front of axle payload will always be heavier. UNLESS of course the van was built with a tare weight which is intentionally lighter forward of the axle to allow for extra forward payload, somehow I doubt it, but how would I know that?
macka17 said
06:07 PM Mar 19, 2017
Empty van completely.
Just leave gas bottles and roll out mounted.then go over scales. Go home. have van on level.
Set up a coupla house scales and timber.
GOOGLE knows all. ask.
have everything ready that you want in there. Everything.. AFTER you've sorted and reduced several times.
After 6 months you'll throw nearly half of what you left in there, out too.
Slowly add items front and back to suit YOUR idea of placement, Try to keep heavier load over suspension. while watching scales and weight you looking for. (I had over 350kg on drawbar)
When finished. Check scales. (unless you went over b4 you got to that point).
That'll give you a first timers idea of what's entailed and where you need to put\NOT put, things to get it right.
A bit fiddly. BUT. first time round. Worth it.
You won't go too wrong. and will know better for the future.
I've been doing it over 50 yrs and still stuff up first time with new van. Mainly.....we all do.
And. If fitting a "reversing" camera. Install it ABOVE the ball. Not low and in line. Higher the camera. Wider and further is the view. of towbar approaching your ball.
Have fun We still enjoy doing it.
THEN. Load car. wheel arches from top of rim to bottom of arch. Side to side. AND Front\back. Even to each other. ??. If not. Rectify..
IS van level. Is TUG level. are the base of ball and bottom of hitch in line??.
Then the fun starts.
Read back in here. there are quite a few good pages on what to, Both do. and not do.
It's easy really. All the old farts here do it almost daily. If I can. you certainly can.
The first balancing act is the worst. After that. Just watch what you doing.
Get all that right first. loads to suit.
Then install WDH and just load chains to suit.
Oh. Remember to weigh yourself and missus if you close to mark.
on the scales plate
and keep tug a decent weight heavier than van for safety sake.
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 19th of March 2017 06:10:08 PM
iana said
10:46 PM Mar 19, 2017
I'm just back from a trip, on the way there winds and a following storm, semis and road trains. Did notice a slight twitch once or twice when going from trees to an open space between and the wind not helping me. Trip home a dream trip. Size, of van 24 ft, weight up there probably about 2.8 tonne, up hills down dales how did I survive, I looked at the rear wheels of the tug I thought she was a little light on the back, still have a 140kg canopy to go an there. Ball weight about 250kg. I had no weight distribution hitch, how did I survive?
PeterD said
09:20 AM Mar 20, 2017
Yes Ian, there are always the flat earth people who judge that things are find under good conditions and then wonder what hapened when things start to go pear shape.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DXBZu39pQ8Gg&ved=0ahUKEwil8OnZitzSAhVFlJQKHRgtA8wQwqsBCCQwAg&usg=AFQjCNEtPqCNq5UkU4a3LWACNU_zdkkIdg
After doing plenty of research on airbag and wdh, this video clearly shows how much safer wd is compared with airbags.
Thoughts please...
Kezngaz.
Gday...
It has always been evident that airbags are simply a way of 'jacking up' the rear suspension - and are not a weight DISTRIBUTION device.
Also quite evident that the product is called a Weight DISTRIBUTION Hitch because it actually DISTRIBUTES weight to and between axles.
However, if one notes the 'weight' placed in the trailer by the folk performing this 'test' it seems to be a fair way in front of the trailer axles. It begs the question if they distributed the 'load' in the trailer differently whether it would have shown up such stark differences.
Cheers - John
Is the weight placed not relevent to the tow vehicles tow ball rate?
Surely it would work on a percentace basis?
Im still learning as im sure we all are, and what suprised me was how the airbag setup actually reduces weight on the tugs front axle, in effect acting as a pivot point.
Kezngaz.
Gday...
The first thing that should be done when loading a caravan (or trailer for that matter) is to position the load in such a way as to have a balanced outfit.
Too much weight forward of the trailer/van's axle will increase the towball weight. This can have two effects a) make the trailer/van more stable (or unstable) and b) place 'excessive' weight on the towball - affecting the stability/drive-ability of the the vehicle.
Similarly, too little weight forward of the trailer/van's axle - particularly if rearward of the axle - can make the whole rig - both van AND vehicle - unstable and usually quite unsafe.
The secret is to load the van in such a way as to DISTRIBUTE the load as equitably as possible to get the best/correct balance. Then........ and ONLY then ..... should one begin to 'experiment' with suspensions modifications (including air bags) and or the attachment of a WDH - and the chain tensions of the WDH used to 'level the outfit'.
Despite all the hoo-haa, it is not rocket science. Just thoughtful application of loading and then careful trial and error to get the best and SAFEST outcome for towing.
Cheers - and now we wait for that to draw comments of derision
- John
John there may be less criticism if they had used a heavier trailer. However what they were showing the effect of having 1,000 lbs on the ball. A heavier trailer could be built with with the same weight on the ball and also at the same time have the centre of gravity closer to the axle than trailer used in the demo.
The other thing I saw was the weight increase on the tug was a fraction higher than the 1,000 lb ball weight. This would be because of things like the change of trim with the trailer in a more nose down attitude when hitched and also may have had something to do with the suspension of the trailer not properly weight sharing.
Even with these warts I still consider it to be an exercise in demonstrating the effects of WDH.
I use a WDH and no handling issues experienced. But the challenge in weight balancing isn't helped by the design of many vans which have a bias to forward storage. I'd say 90% of the storage capacity in my (new) van is forward of the axle. Cupboards and drawers are distributed across the interior fairly evenly, but storage for the weighty stuff is provided for in the front tunnel boot and the under-bed cavity. No matter hard I try, my front of axle payload will always be heavier. UNLESS of course the van was built with a tare weight which is intentionally lighter forward of the axle to allow for extra forward payload, somehow I doubt it, but how would I know that?
Empty van completely.
Just leave gas bottles and roll out mounted.then go over scales.
Go home. have van on level.
Set up a coupla house scales and timber.
GOOGLE knows all. ask.
have everything ready that you want in there. Everything..
AFTER you've sorted and reduced several times.
After 6 months you'll throw nearly half of what you left in there, out too.
Slowly add items front and back to suit YOUR idea of placement,
Try to keep heavier load over suspension.
while watching scales and weight you looking for. (I had over 350kg on drawbar)
When finished.
Check scales. (unless you went over b4 you got to that point).
That'll give you a first timers idea of what's entailed
and where you need to put\NOT put, things to get it right.
A bit fiddly. BUT. first time round. Worth it.
You won't go too wrong. and will know better for the future.
I've been doing it over 50 yrs and still stuff up first time with new van.
Mainly.....we all do.
And. If fitting a "reversing" camera.
Install it ABOVE the ball. Not low and in line.
Higher the camera.
Wider and further is the view. of towbar approaching your ball.
Have fun
We still enjoy doing it.
THEN.
Load car.
wheel arches from top of rim to bottom of arch. Side to side. AND Front\back. Even to each other. ??.
If not. Rectify..
IS van level. Is TUG level.
are the base of ball and bottom of hitch in line??.
Then the fun starts.
Read back in here. there are quite a few good pages on what to, Both do. and not do.
It's easy really. All the old farts here do it almost daily.
If I can. you certainly can.
The first balancing act is the worst.
After that. Just watch what you doing.
Get all that right first. loads to suit.
Then install WDH and just load chains to suit.
Oh. Remember to weigh yourself and missus if you close to mark.
on the scales plate
and keep tug a decent weight heavier than van for safety sake.
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 19th of March 2017 06:10:08 PM