Can you give me some suggestions how to setup my engel freezer with a second battery please. I have a Ford Territory suv (not 4wd.) I tow a caravan which has a battery compartment not being used.
Aus-Kiwi said
01:50 PM Apr 14, 2017
How long do you stop at each location ? If overnight ? Just parallel the two batteries with good cables .
macka17 said
04:04 PM Apr 14, 2017
Install battery in van box. If a ventilated space. Just a wet. Exide Extreme (dual) battery will do NZ70ZZ with a dual Battery controller under bonnet beside orig battery. Join wiring to van with Anderson Plug.
That way you'll protect your starting battery so it CAN start. A Panel on van roof wouldn't hurt either. Just one 80\110\160\200W depending on wallet. It'll keep battery topped to keep fridge cold. Panels are cheap enuff. and a 12a Mid priced Regulator will control it well with room for expansion.
I have an 80w AGM (Had it spare) with (also had) 35 a Smart reg. to a 200w panel. Runs van and external Waeco when camped.
But just the NZ70 or bigger truck batt, with a Dual Battery isolator (most important) will start you off.
Heavy wiring and 50a Anderson. They cheap enuff on Net. I bought a 10 pack for price of 1 and a half local retail price.
MOST Importantly. Cover the drain from fridge to car. Either the above Isolator or a diode thingy. (Someone on here will advise)
Footy on now. Rabbits, Bulldogs now.
with Bronc's for second game after leg of lamb for dinner. Yummm.
Purrrrfect Easter Fri Arvo hey.
-- Edited by macka17 on Friday 14th of April 2017 04:08:50 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:06 PM Apr 14, 2017
Hi John,
I assume you want the fridge to be in your car & not the van.
When I bought my car, it had a second battery installed in the usual position that Nissan allows for it - above the exhaust manifold & turbo ie, not the coolest position possible. Even Toyota does it better by placing the batteries up the front of the engine compartment. Batteries work ideally at 25 degrees, not 80!
The dual battery system was fed by a solenoid (el-cheapo system) & the aux battery was lasting a max of 12 months (11 for one). I have a 60L Trail Blazer fridge/freezer in the back of the wagon.
I replaced the solenoid with a C-Tek DC-DC charger (mine is 20A but is expandable), you can use Redarc (25A up to 40A), Projecta (similar) & the last battery, I fitted lasted 2.5 years which was a much better result. A hot battery risks the chance of a shorter life, leakage & at worse, a battery explosion.
I can only assume you don't have room under the bonnet - putting the battery in the van box is ok but cable lengths are an issue with voltage drops, providing you don't go independent of the van at any time. A place in the back of your Ford is ideal providing it is covered & ventilated from the sun - but feed it with one of the DC-DC chargers & ADEQUATELY sized cables. They have temperature compensation (main reason my last battery has lasted so long) as well as a solar input.
macca suggests using the N70Z & N70ZZ batteries - they are still START batteries designed for high discharge & quick charge, not a slow discharge & recharge. I used a marine battery because it is designed to take a pounding (waves) & it had reserve capacity (Deep Cycle, 85AH - can get larger if weight is not an issue) & start function if required via jumper cables. My new battery is a SSB AGM 80AH designed for under bonnet temperatures. Some Superstart batteries have reserve capacity as well.
I also use the system to run the caravan's 140L 3way fridge (with a Fridge-Switch) while we are travelling (cannot run the car fridge as well as 17+6A = 23A, the C-Tek in its current set up only provides 20A).
Like macca, I disagree with Aus-Kiwi about just paralleling the batteries. Keep them separate as you don't want a system that threatens your start battery.
Batteries are expensive so it is important that you get the correct set up first.
Aus-Kiwi said
10:39 PM Apr 14, 2017
In parallel with relay or AC DC charger . Which was missing from my first comment . Yes don't want starter battery going flat . The second battery is on van. So when key is turned off the relay, diod or contactor isolates the two . The old method was to manually disconnect .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 14th of April 2017 10:48:18 PM
macka17 said
11:50 PM Apr 14, 2017
Yes Warren.
I've used those Exides for decades on my yachts. mainly house battery's with combination sw to link them all for engine starter. Lots of others did\do too.
As long as you keep your solar system up to charge capacity. they'll last as long as the AGM's
and I usually found that they outlasted my Deep Cycles too.
5 1\2 to 6 yrs. Deep Cycle
Compared to 6 1\2 to 7 plus yrs. Extreme's and the other one. (Indian)
AGM's were in infancy then. But I still use them.
The exides ARE designed for dual. and do a good job.
AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A VENTED ENCLOSURE.
For a much lower price.
It all depends on the individual.
I've used both. and happy with both. AGM, Van.
WET, Cars and boats.
patrol03 said
04:21 PM Apr 15, 2017
I have two Patrols..Y61 and Y 62. I use a red arc smart solenoid on each. In the Y61 I have a Century 100ah deep cycle lead acid battery as an auxiliary it is now 5yo and going strong. Under the bonnet too. In my y62 I have the same system but due to space available I have a yellow top 55ah AGM for my Waeco and can also charge my 110ah AGM deep cycle in the van,and run the fridge with a constant 14.6V from the alternator. It is now 2yo and going strong .There is no need to buy expensive eqpt such as DCDC chargers If you think out and plan the system correctly.
Warren-Pat_01 said
05:10 PM Apr 15, 2017
That's the point macka, as long as they are recharged as soon as possible & not taken down too low. Some people are of the opinion that a battery can be flattened & then recharged with no problems. The people who we bought our Eagle Camper off were an example. The AGM battery in it read 3v & the case was bulged (not the worst I've seen).
One issue with wet cells is the fumes (as you point out, the need for venting) they give off, the corrosion it can cause to electronic equipment & the need for checking the electrolyte levels. The Gell-AGM batteries tend to make us lazy.
But even AGMs can be damaged if the voltage gets too low. At 12.6v, they have used 50% of their capacity. As I said earlier, I have a Trail Blazer fridge - that has a "low voltage" cut-out set at 10.5v. If the battery is taken down that low (unless it is a yellow Optima but they tend to be a bit expensive) on a regular basis, the battery will be good only for a boat anchor.
I have a friend (a retired nurse) who has an AGM battery to put in the back of her car when she needs it. Well she went out on a bird survey for a week & on returning home, took it out of her car & put it in a store room. When she decided she wanted to use it again - it was FLAT! And I mean FLAT! And when I told her it could be stuffed she was devastated as it was quite expensive so I said I'd try.
My 8A smart charger & another friend's 25A smart charger wouldn't touch it (they need a terminal voltage of 2v to start) so I put an old battery charger (ex Army Disposals, bought in the late 60s) on it for another two weeks. It very slowly started to show a charge, then yo save power, I put my older Solex solar panels on it & the battery came back up. Now she keeps it floating on a smart charger!
Aus-Kiwi - the DC-DC charger set up is the preferred way to go as it has temperature compensation if the aux battery is under the bonnet. John didn't say where his fridge was being installed in the car or the van.
patrol03 said
06:20 PM Apr 15, 2017
A very interesting case WP01. I have had the same situation when a smart charger would not look at charging a flat battery,but on connecting up an old selenium rectifier charger I have under the bench..BINGO I was able to put a charge in the battery and then finish it off with a smart/not so smart as it turns out ,charger. All good, no problem with the battery thence. Yes, DCDC charger may be temperature compensated as are many alternators but when a battery is down in charge an alternator will charge it quicker than a DCDC charger and will supply sufficient current (amps) according to the load applied. Yes there are cases where a DCDC charger can be of advantage but retailers are very quick to fit expensive options where a simpler and cheaper option will achieve the same or in some cases a better job.
Aus-Kiwi said
08:17 PM Apr 15, 2017
Yes again with elect. Even DC or more so ? .. So many options . Plus the new ECU controlled charging systems don't help .. mate just fitted a 200 watt solar on his van with not so large ( 10mmsq) charging wire off his car battery to charge while driving .. He was so surprised the solar kept the battery charged even with portable fridge on.. As he thought the solar would be usleesss and require constant help from alternator .. Seems his solar system is working fine .. it also depends if van is disconnected at destination which was what I was thinking .. So obviously a relay etc is hardly required ..
macka17 said
09:49 PM Apr 15, 2017
Yes Warren. A little understanding of battery's and their cycling make a huge difference.
Whenever I've set up a system. yacht car, van or boats. I have them linked to solar of some size. Just the floating of the battery at 13+v with panel no matter how small within reason. (My smallest is 40w.) Will give ALL your battery's around 6 yrs and more of good life.
AS long as you don't let them go below 12.5\12.6v by beginning of following days charge.
It's all about balance. Smart charger. Smart reg, and panels to suit battery sizing. Which are sized to suit your 24hr draw.
I have 25a Smart Charger, built in garage. 15a smart in van. 7a in tray of ute. With a 40a 4 way mobile charger for bulk. wherever. PLUS a 3.8kva Inv Genny.
That last item. In my eyes... Is most important item in the system.
Had a short in ute wiring when went down to Brissie for surgery.
Jump start ute to get home.
Checked batt 2 days later. 8.1v.
sat on charger for 2 days zilch.
When I feel better I'll couple the 40a and the 25a to it for a coupla days.
See if that'll kick it in.
Otherwise a large boat battery goes in there.
I can't drive yet.
-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 15th of April 2017 09:52:53 PM
patrol03 said
07:46 AM Apr 16, 2017
Gees Macka,Ya got more power than Ergon.
macka17 said
08:19 PM Apr 16, 2017
Yes buddy.
We get those things call "Cyclones" up here.
Quite regularly.
Power ALWAYS goes of from 4 to around 7 days.
My little genny runs my house complete. and Next door too if he don't use Air cons and I not use Microwave etc.
They worth their weight in gold up here.
Plus, already having one.
I'd be real dumb NOT to take with van and use for Aircond.
wouldn't i?.
johns said
03:35 PM Apr 17, 2017
Thanks everyone for your information, you have given me something to work with when I get back home in the next couple of weeks. Once again thanks to all on the Nomad Forum.
oldtrack123 said
08:49 PM Apr 17, 2017
patrol03 wrote:
A very interesting case WP01. I have had the same situation when a smart charger would not look at charging a flat battery,but on connecting up an old selenium rectifier charger I have under the bench..BINGO I was able to put a charge in the battery and then finish it off with a smart/not so smart as it turns out ,charger. All good, no problem with the battery thence. Yes, DCDC charger may be temperature compensated as are many alternators but when a battery is down in charge an alternator will charge it quicker than a DCDC charger and will supply sufficient current (amps) according to the load applied. Yes there are cases where a DCDC charger can be of advantage but retailers are very quick to fit expensive options where a simpler and cheaper option will achieve the same or in some cases a better job.
Install battery in van box.
If a ventilated space. Just a wet. Exide Extreme (dual) battery will do NZ70ZZ
with a dual Battery controller under bonnet beside orig battery.
Join wiring to van with Anderson Plug.
That way you'll protect your starting battery so it CAN start.
A Panel on van roof wouldn't hurt either.
Just one 80\110\160\200W depending on wallet.
It'll keep battery topped to keep fridge cold.
Panels are cheap enuff. and a 12a Mid priced Regulator will control it well with room for expansion.
I have an 80w AGM (Had it spare) with (also had) 35 a Smart reg. to a 200w panel.
Runs van and external Waeco when camped.
But just the NZ70 or bigger truck batt, with a Dual Battery isolator (most important)
will start you off.
Heavy wiring and 50a Anderson.
They cheap enuff on Net.
I bought a 10 pack for price of 1 and a half local retail price.
MOST Importantly.
Cover the drain from fridge to car. Either the above Isolator or a diode thingy.
(Someone on here will advise)
Footy on now. Rabbits, Bulldogs now.
with Bronc's for second game after leg of lamb for dinner. Yummm.
Purrrrfect Easter Fri Arvo hey.
-- Edited by macka17 on Friday 14th of April 2017 04:08:50 PM
I assume you want the fridge to be in your car & not the van.
When I bought my car, it had a second battery installed in the usual position that Nissan allows for it - above the exhaust manifold & turbo ie, not the coolest position possible. Even Toyota does it better by placing the batteries up the front of the engine compartment. Batteries work ideally at 25 degrees, not 80!
The dual battery system was fed by a solenoid (el-cheapo system) & the aux battery was lasting a max of 12 months (11 for one). I have a 60L Trail Blazer fridge/freezer in the back of the wagon.
I replaced the solenoid with a C-Tek DC-DC charger (mine is 20A but is expandable), you can use Redarc (25A up to 40A), Projecta (similar) & the last battery, I fitted lasted 2.5 years which was a much better result. A hot battery risks the chance of a shorter life, leakage & at worse, a battery explosion.
I can only assume you don't have room under the bonnet - putting the battery in the van box is ok but cable lengths are an issue with voltage drops, providing you don't go independent of the van at any time. A place in the back of your Ford is ideal providing it is covered & ventilated from the sun - but feed it with one of the DC-DC chargers & ADEQUATELY sized cables. They have temperature compensation (main reason my last battery has lasted so long) as well as a solar input.
macca suggests using the N70Z & N70ZZ batteries - they are still START batteries designed for high discharge & quick charge, not a slow discharge & recharge. I used a marine battery because it is designed to take a pounding (waves) & it had reserve capacity (Deep Cycle, 85AH - can get larger if weight is not an issue) & start function if required via jumper cables. My new battery is a SSB AGM 80AH designed for under bonnet temperatures. Some Superstart batteries have reserve capacity as well.
I also use the system to run the caravan's 140L 3way fridge (with a Fridge-Switch) while we are travelling (cannot run the car fridge as well as 17+6A = 23A, the C-Tek in its current set up only provides 20A).
Like macca, I disagree with Aus-Kiwi about just paralleling the batteries. Keep them separate as you don't want a system that threatens your start battery.
Batteries are expensive so it is important that you get the correct set up first.
In parallel with relay or AC DC charger . Which was missing from my first comment . Yes don't want starter battery going flat . The second battery is on van. So when key is turned off the relay, diod or contactor isolates the two . The old method was to manually disconnect .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 14th of April 2017 10:48:18 PM
I've used those Exides for decades on my yachts. mainly house battery's with combination sw to link them all for engine starter. Lots of others did\do too.
As long as you keep your solar system up to charge capacity. they'll last as long as the AGM's
and I usually found that they outlasted my Deep Cycles too.
5 1\2 to 6 yrs. Deep Cycle
Compared to 6 1\2 to 7 plus yrs. Extreme's and the other one. (Indian)
AGM's were in infancy then. But I still use them.
The exides ARE designed for dual. and do a good job.
AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A VENTED ENCLOSURE.
For a much lower price.
It all depends on the individual.
I've used both. and happy with both. AGM, Van.
WET, Cars and boats.
One issue with wet cells is the fumes (as you point out, the need for venting) they give off, the corrosion it can cause to electronic equipment & the need for checking the electrolyte levels. The Gell-AGM batteries tend to make us lazy.
But even AGMs can be damaged if the voltage gets too low. At 12.6v, they have used 50% of their capacity. As I said earlier, I have a Trail Blazer fridge - that has a "low voltage" cut-out set at 10.5v. If the battery is taken down that low (unless it is a yellow Optima but they tend to be a bit expensive) on a regular basis, the battery will be good only for a boat anchor.
I have a friend (a retired nurse) who has an AGM battery to put in the back of her car when she needs it. Well she went out on a bird survey for a week & on returning home, took it out of her car & put it in a store room. When she decided she wanted to use it again - it was FLAT! And I mean FLAT! And when I told her it could be stuffed she was devastated as it was quite expensive so I said I'd try.
My 8A smart charger & another friend's 25A smart charger wouldn't touch it (they need a terminal voltage of 2v to start) so I put an old battery charger (ex Army Disposals, bought in the late 60s) on it for another two weeks. It very slowly started to show a charge, then yo save power, I put my older Solex solar panels on it & the battery came back up. Now she keeps it floating on a smart charger!
Aus-Kiwi - the DC-DC charger set up is the preferred way to go as it has temperature compensation if the aux battery is under the bonnet. John didn't say where his fridge was being installed in the car or the van.
Yes Warren.
A little understanding of battery's and their cycling
make a huge difference.
Whenever I've set up a system. yacht car, van or boats.
I have them linked to solar of some size.
Just the floating of the battery at 13+v with panel no matter how small
within reason. (My smallest is 40w.)
Will give ALL your battery's around 6 yrs and more
of good life.
AS long as you don't let them go below 12.5\12.6v
by beginning of following days charge.
It's all about balance. Smart charger. Smart reg,
and panels to suit battery sizing.
Which are sized to suit your 24hr draw.
I have 25a Smart Charger, built in garage.
15a smart in van. 7a in tray of ute.
With a 40a 4 way mobile charger for bulk.
wherever.
PLUS a 3.8kva Inv Genny.
That last item. In my eyes...
Is most important item in the system.
Had a short in ute wiring when went down to Brissie for surgery.
Jump start ute to get home.
Checked batt 2 days later. 8.1v.
sat on charger for 2 days zilch.
When I feel better I'll couple the 40a and the 25a to it for a coupla days.
See if that'll kick it in.
Otherwise a large boat battery goes in there.
I can't drive yet.
-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 15th of April 2017 09:52:53 PM
We get those things call "Cyclones" up here.
Quite regularly.
Power ALWAYS goes of from 4 to around 7 days.
My little genny runs my house complete. and Next door too if he don't use Air cons and I not use Microwave etc.
They worth their weight in gold up here.
Plus, already having one.
I'd be real dumb NOT to take with van and use for Aircond.
wouldn't i?.
DITTO