Van AGM is 3200kg, towing with 100 series Cruiser. Weighbridge check all within limits. BUT!
The towball after 5000k is tapered toward the top. Replaced with new one and same is happening again.
I was told to screw the adjustment screw down until it stops then back half turn.
The hitch is a standard Alko 3.5 capacity.
PeterD said
09:43 AM May 6, 2017
I have attempted to adjust that screw up and all it seems to do is to make a mess of the ball. Backing it off does not do anything for the holding power of the the hitch.
When you have your WDH installed and tensioned properly there is no rattle in the hitch or the coupling. You should be using WDH, according to the industry towing guide Toyota specify you should be using it. Also you should have plenty of ball weight with a van of the one you are towing and that should have WDH to stop the front end of the tug from lifting too much.
Snippy said
10:02 AM May 6, 2017
PeterD wrote:
I have attempted to adjust that screw up and all it seems to do is to make a mess of the ball. Backing it off does not do anything for the holding power of the the hitch.
When you have your WDH installed and tensioned properly there is no rattle in the hitch or the coupling. You should be using WDH, according to the industry towing guide Toyota specify you should be using it. Also you should have plenty of ball weight with a van of the one you are towing and that should have WDH to stop the front end of the tug from lifting too much.
Thanks Peter,
We have a Hayman Reese WDH tensioned to the 4th link on the chain and rig looks flat on side view. The dealer set it up to 5 links but was not enough.
Unfortunately, the Cruiser has standard Toymotor suspension which is way too soft. We are looking at upgrading but not sure what to do on this.
Baz421 said
10:49 AM May 6, 2017
Snippy wrote:
PeterD wrote:
I have attempted to adjust that screw up and all it seems to do is to make a mess of the ball. Backing it off does not do anything for the holding power of the the hitch.
When you have your WDH installed and tensioned properly there is no rattle in the hitch or the coupling. You should be using WDH, according to the industry towing guide Toyota specify you should be using it. Also you should have plenty of ball weight with a van of the one you are towing and that should have WDH to stop the front end of the tug from lifting too much.
Thanks Peter,
We have a Hayman Reese WDH tensioned to the 4th link on the chain and rig looks flat on side view. The dealer set it up to 5 links but was not enough.
Unfortunately, the Cruiser has standard Toymotor suspension which is way too soft. We are looking at upgrading but not sno rure what to do on this.
Snippy If upgrading suspension see ARB as we fitted their kit (springs and shockies - 10 years ago) and as kit is ADR compliant no problem PLUS our GVM is increased to 3.7 tonnes.
We have 79 series but they may produce a kit for yours also.
Take the screw up till it touches.
DON'T crank it up tight. just touching.
Then back off.
HALF to ONE flat. MAX.(normally)
Just have a puffteenth of movement. NO more.
I always keep ball greased too. not graphite
Old school.
Half a turn waay too much.
In 50 odd yrs. I've never had that happen.(badly worn ball)
I've worn the H\R bar sockets oval, and rounded off ends of bars.
But never a ball???.
I'd recommend getting a HYLAND Hitch, But apparently they closed. Retired.
But whatever you get. stay with the balls. not any of those pin,
or Universal joint things.
On the road. balls proven for 100yrs.
Just looking. "Traralgon Trailers".
They do the cast 2 ton Hyland.
ALSO. The ALCO 3.5t there. is direct copy of Hyland 3.5 ton hitch.
But loooks? cast not fabricated.
The fab one you can (I did)_ a mix of bolt and welded mine on.
Maybe Hyland sold patent to Alco
on understanding they'd stop production??.
Regarding car susp.
Coils. Leaf rears?.
If coil and NOT using veh off road.
Try a set of (King??) "Progressive rate" coils.
NEVER Use "progressive" rate coils if off roading.
They give TOOOOO much rolling on rocks etc.
You could roll, or at least brown missus knickers.
Get Load Strength to suit your current loading with 2 in lift.
and decent shocks , with 3in lift.
(I have used EFS for a long time no prob's)
Leaf. I used Ironman on my Ute. quite happy.
Nil sag so far.
and soft.(1 in lift), with aforesaid EFS shocks.
I wouldn't be UPrating any Toyota towing\carrying capacity.
The chassis. all susp mountings, linkages.
. and everything underneath are \will be overloaded\stressed
above designers ratings, weight\strength capacity's.
Even the axles and running gear will be overloaded from design.
None of them give much leeway, for costing in MFG.
They give way quite a lot now just going off road.
I'd be going down van.
or up vehicle.
But that's only me.
What MOST people using these OFF road veh's forget.
or don't see.
Is that 4wd,s. Basically. are that. OFF road (to a point) 4wd veh's.
We use them as they stronger, basically.
than other current veh's sold in Aust for the job.
They Are NOT designed as tugs.
They design and build small 2\3\5 ton trucks for that.
Quite a few owners will be changing to US Utes
and small trucks in future generations of towing.
The legal "slackness\look the other way" days. are gone.
Snippy said
05:13 PM May 6, 2017
macka17 wrote:
Take the screw up till it touches. DON'T crank it up tight. just touching.
Then back off. HALF to ONE flat. MAX.(normally)
Just have a puffteenth of movement. NO more.
I always keep ball greased too. not graphite Old school.
Half a turn waay too much.
In 50 odd yrs. I've never had that happen.(badly worn ball)
I've worn the H\R bar sockets oval, and rounded off ends of bars. But never a ball???.
I'd recommend getting a HYLAND Hitch, But apparently they closed. Retired.
But whatever you get. stay with the balls. not any of those pin, or Universal joint things.
On the road. balls proven for 100yrs.
Just looking. "Traralgon Trailers". They do the cast 2 ton Hyland.
ALSO. The ALCO 3.5t there. is direct copy of Hyland 3.5 ton hitch. But loooks? cast not fabricated.
The fab one you can (I did)_ a mix of bolt and welded mine on.
Maybe Hyland sold patent to Alco on understanding they'd stop production??.
Regarding car susp. Coils. Leaf rears?.
If coil and NOT using veh off road. Try a set of (King??) "Progressive rate" coils.
NEVER Use "progressive" rate coils if off roading. They give TOOOOO much rolling on rocks etc. You could roll, or at least brown missus knickers.
Get Load Strength to suit your current loading with 2 in lift. and decent shocks , with 3in lift. (I have used EFS for a long time no prob's)
Leaf. I used Ironman on my Ute. quite happy. Nil sag so far. and soft.(1 in lift), with aforesaid EFS shocks.
I wouldn't be UPrating any Toyota towing\carrying capacity.
The chassis. all susp mountings, linkages. . and everything underneath are \will be overloaded\stressed above designers ratings, weight\strength capacity's.
Even the axles and running gear will be overloaded from design.
None of them give much leeway, for costing in MFG. They give way quite a lot now just going off road.
I'd be going down van. or up vehicle. But that's only me.
What MOST people using these OFF road veh's forget. or don't see. Is that 4wd,s. Basically. are that. OFF road (to a point) 4wd veh's.
We use them as they stronger, basically. than other current veh's sold in Aust for the job.
They Are NOT designed as tugs. They design and build small 2\3\5 ton trucks for that.
Quite a few owners will be changing to US Utes and small trucks in future generations of towing. The legal "slackness\look the other way" days. are gone.
Thanks Macka.
Rear springs are coils, many of these 100 series are towing large vans without problems.
Won't be doing any off-roading, so just need the rear to be a bit harder.
Overall happy with the Cruiser/van combo, just need to sort out the shrinking ball! (If you will pardon the pun)
Thanks for your reply.
BAZZA44 said
05:15 PM May 6, 2017
Kevin are you using grease on the towball
Barry
Snippy said
05:15 PM May 6, 2017
Thanks Rgren,
I think it is better to find the cause and fix it rather than changing towing systems.
Cheers.
Snippy said
05:17 PM May 6, 2017
No. is this an OOOPS moment?
BAZZA44 said
05:49 PM May 6, 2017
Hmm seems you are not using grease so maybe rethink this dry ball method, it must wear by grinding away as it moves.
For your suspension, have you thought of airbags in the coils. I have similar setup to you, ATM 3100, ball weight approx 280kgs, and have polyair bags that I pump to 15psi when towing, huge difference, more stable etc, sits well on road. Advantage of airbags is they are adjustable and when not towing you go back to normal ride quality. Must leave about 5psi in so bags do not get pinched in coil. You probably will not need so much tension on WDH.
Barry
macka17 said
01:10 PM May 7, 2017
Yes Kev.
A lot of those 100's, later model are great tugs.
(I only gee 'em up a bit shhhh)
But. Have to replace the very soggy suspensions from new.
Bazz.
I was trying to be a little "subtle" with the grease thingy.
Old dragline driver.
Double grease everything every 4 hrs.
Snippy said
01:21 PM May 7, 2017
Thanks Bazz and Macka.
Might take a look at airbags.
macka17 said
09:15 PM May 8, 2017
Kev.
Personally.
I prefer Pump up shocks on veh's.
At least they mounted on a specially reinforced area of chassis and axle
to take stress of bouncing.
Airbags have been known to bend one or two chassis rails.
UNLESS chassis rails have some reinforcing. Extending to spread the load.
Point pressure is what causes the problem.
Ron-D said
09:15 AM May 9, 2017
Tow ball lubrication is usually grease which is meessy but necesary, I just use plastic bags doubled over on the tow ball clean and has worked a treat over many years and untold thousands of kilometres,plastic is made from oil So I was told by the old fellow that put me onto this,it may be wrong but I have never had any tow ball wear ever...
macka17 said
01:39 PM May 9, 2017
RON.
When working on Dams and doors. They use Teflon sheeting of differing thicknesses. from 1in to about paper thickness. slippers for the Spillway doors.
I "acquired" some of differing measurements (offcuts???) and used for things on boats. etc. Anchor chain on foredeck was prime suspect. Magic. Bright Yellow only.
Mate vacuum formed some for me yrs ago. and I'd put that over ball. OVER the grease.
Only wear then Basically. was absorbed by the Teflon. 350+kg on ball weights.
Yrs ago. Long gone. Just memories,
-- Edited by macka17 on Tuesday 9th of May 2017 01:39:48 PM
Ron-D said
07:49 PM May 9, 2017
Yeah that sounds good Macca never tried it , but what I use is those plastic dogie poo bags doubled over,cheap and easy to find...
Big Mal said
03:26 PM May 10, 2017
I tried the dry ball method and found the ball was chewed after about 10K and also worked out the chrome balls wear quicker than the old plain steel balls , gone back to greasy balls but at about $10 I just replace when looking dodgy.
Desert Dweller said
06:06 AM May 11, 2017
We put Nautilus marine grease on our ball, it still looks like new when degreased using turpentine & regreased. That's after about 50,000kms.We've been greasing our balls for 35 years, never had a problem.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Thursday 11th of May 2017 06:07:43 AM
SouthernComfort said
08:33 AM May 12, 2017
I've read about the plastic bag idea and still might try it, sounds logical to me. I haven't found greasing too messy though, I keep a ball cap on when not towing.
rockylizard said
09:00 AM May 12, 2017
Gday...
I wipe the tow ball clean every once in a while ... maybe fortnightly or so.
I then give a cuppla squirts of Lanotec (lanolin spray lubricant) onto the ball and up into the ball-cup on the van.
It works well - doesn't get sticky and seems not to attract sh!t etc. I am using the same ball for the past eight years, full-time traveller, so van (and the ball) have done over a 100,000Km.
There's no wear on my ball ... I know, coz I check in the shower ever day.
Cheers - John
macka17 said
01:00 AM May 14, 2017
Keith.
I've been greasing my balls for waaaay longer than 35 yrs mate.
Wedding night at 21 yrs from memory. Shhhhhh.
Haven't seen mine for about 10 yrs.
blaze said
01:29 PM May 14, 2017
never greased or lubed a tow ball, never seen any abnormal wear on ball or hitch. Normally throw a new ball on every couple of years and have replaced the odd hitch for other reason apart from wear (broken 2nd locking device etc.)
cheers
blaze
TheHeaths said
05:16 PM May 14, 2017
I wasn't going to post, as I felt a bit out of it. But my experience has been similar to blaze, but without the tow ball replacement.
Towed about 50000 kms, with 3 different vehicles and 3 different vans, and never had an issue with ball wear at all.
In fact I have seen a number of threads, where the lubrication of tow balls has been discussed, and people have specifically said NOT to use grease or similar type lubricant as it can collect grit which then acts as a grinding paste.
Perhaps I have just been lucky!
Snippy said
05:20 PM May 14, 2017
TheHeaths wrote:
I wasn't going to post, as I felt a bit out of it. But my experience has been similar to blaze, but without the tow ball replacement.
Towed about 50000 kms, with 3 different vehicles and 3 different vans, and never had an issue with ball wear at all.
In fact I have seen a number of threads, where the lubrication of tow balls has been discussed, and people have specifically said NOT to use grease or similar type lubricant as it can collect grit which then acts as a grinding paste.
Perhaps I have just been lucky!
Thanks Ian,
Good point. I have been looking other other peoples balls and none seem to be greased. oops (Tow balls)
-- Edited by Snippy on Sunday 14th of May 2017 05:21:04 PM
JayDee said
08:08 AM May 15, 2017
There appears to be no defined answer on to grease or not to grease re this thread.
I have been told to spend a few $$$ each year and replace the towball.????
Jay&Dee
SouthernComfort said
08:18 AM May 15, 2017
Lube between any two metal parts under friction always makes sense to me, although for years I never had excessive wear towing a (very) large boat on a dry ball. Anyhow, grit will only turn grease into grinding paste if it's not cleaned off and refreshed regularly, and/or a ball cap used when not towing. Simples.
rockylizard said
08:32 AM May 15, 2017
SouthernComfort wrote:
Lube between any two metal parts under friction always makes sense to me, although for years I never had excessive wear towing a (very) large boat on a dry ball. Anyhow, grit will only turn grease into grinding paste if it's not cleaned off and refreshed regularly, and/or a ball cap used when not towing. Simples.
Gday...
Pretty true ... that's why I use Lanotec (lanolin spray) ... it does not seem to attract or retain any grit/dust etc.
As I said earlier, every few weeks I give a cuppla squirts on the top of the ball letting it run down and then a cuppla squirts up into the tow socket on a-frame.
I wipe it off before giving the new squirts.
[edit: and yep ... I agree that any two metals parts that are under pressure/friction should be given a lubricant to reduce wear]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 15th of May 2017 08:33:25 AM
macka17 said
01:04 PM May 15, 2017
""In fact I have seen a number of threads, where the lubrication of tow balls has been discussed, and people have specifically said NOT to use grease or similar type lubricant as it can collect grit which then acts as a grinding paste.""
TheHeaths^^^^^.
Regarding greasing. ^^ ONLY if you leave it on there^^^.
Normally. I leave old grease on ball under slip on cover till next tow.
Then I Normally wipe old grease off and regrease with new\fresh grease. Have several types. (Bearing. HMP. Waterproof, etc) Just keep small tub inside Garage door for such.
Whenever We go, where we pick up grit?? whatever, on ball. That night I wipe off. and regrease again.
It (with 1ltr oils of each type req'd.) I carry in with tools. And a small old fashioned "oil can". (Remember them)
Same as tyres.lights etc. just part of travelling maintenance by the sensible.
ALL Metals, apart from a coupla self lubing ones.
That contact and move. NEED lubricating.
DRY. WET. suit yourselves. They BOTH work.
-- Edited by macka17 on Monday 15th of May 2017 01:10:32 PM
Van AGM is 3200kg, towing with 100 series Cruiser. Weighbridge check all within limits. BUT!
The towball after 5000k is tapered toward the top. Replaced with new one and same is happening again.
I was told to screw the adjustment screw down until it stops then back half turn.
The hitch is a standard Alko 3.5 capacity.
I have attempted to adjust that screw up and all it seems to do is to make a mess of the ball. Backing it off does not do anything for the holding power of the the hitch.
When you have your WDH installed and tensioned properly there is no rattle in the hitch or the coupling. You should be using WDH, according to the industry towing guide Toyota specify you should be using it. Also you should have plenty of ball weight with a van of the one you are towing and that should have WDH to stop the front end of the tug from lifting too much.
Thanks Peter,
We have a Hayman Reese WDH tensioned to the 4th link on the chain and rig looks flat on side view. The dealer set it up to 5 links but was not enough.
Unfortunately, the Cruiser has standard Toymotor suspension which is way too soft. We are looking at upgrading but not sure what to do on this.
Snippy If upgrading suspension see ARB as we fitted their kit (springs and shockies - 10 years ago) and as kit is ADR compliant no problem PLUS our GVM is increased to 3.7 tonnes.
We have 79 series but they may produce a kit for yours also.
Thanks Baz, will check that out.
Change to one of these.
http://www.vehiclecomponents.com.au/hitches-couplings/hitchmaster-do35-v21-trailer-coupling-1
DON'T crank it up tight. just touching.
Then back off.
HALF to ONE flat. MAX.(normally)
Just have a puffteenth of movement. NO more.
I always keep ball greased too. not graphite
Old school.
Half a turn waay too much.
In 50 odd yrs. I've never had that happen.(badly worn ball)
I've worn the H\R bar sockets oval, and rounded off ends of bars.
But never a ball???.
I'd recommend getting a HYLAND Hitch, But apparently they closed. Retired.
But whatever you get. stay with the balls. not any of those pin,
or Universal joint things.
On the road. balls proven for 100yrs.
Just looking. "Traralgon Trailers".
They do the cast 2 ton Hyland.
ALSO. The ALCO 3.5t there. is direct copy of Hyland 3.5 ton hitch.
But loooks? cast not fabricated.
The fab one you can (I did)_ a mix of bolt and welded mine on.
Maybe Hyland sold patent to Alco
on understanding they'd stop production??.
Regarding car susp.
Coils. Leaf rears?.
If coil and NOT using veh off road.
Try a set of (King??) "Progressive rate" coils.
NEVER Use "progressive" rate coils if off roading.
They give TOOOOO much rolling on rocks etc.
You could roll, or at least brown missus knickers.
Get Load Strength to suit your current loading with 2 in lift.
and decent shocks , with 3in lift.
(I have used EFS for a long time no prob's)
Leaf. I used Ironman on my Ute. quite happy.
Nil sag so far.
and soft.(1 in lift), with aforesaid EFS shocks.
I wouldn't be UPrating any Toyota towing\carrying capacity.
The chassis. all susp mountings, linkages.
. and everything underneath are \will be overloaded\stressed
above designers ratings, weight\strength capacity's.
Even the axles and running gear will be overloaded from design.
None of them give much leeway, for costing in MFG.
They give way quite a lot now just going off road.
I'd be going down van.
or up vehicle.
But that's only me.
What MOST people using these OFF road veh's forget.
or don't see.
Is that 4wd,s. Basically. are that. OFF road (to a point) 4wd veh's.
We use them as they stronger, basically.
than other current veh's sold in Aust for the job.
They Are NOT designed as tugs.
They design and build small 2\3\5 ton trucks for that.
Quite a few owners will be changing to US Utes
and small trucks in future generations of towing.
The legal "slackness\look the other way" days. are gone.
Thanks Macka.
Rear springs are coils, many of these 100 series are towing large vans without problems.
Won't be doing any off-roading, so just need the rear to be a bit harder.
Overall happy with the Cruiser/van combo, just need to sort out the shrinking ball! (If you will pardon the pun)
Thanks for your reply.
Kevin are you using grease on the towball
Barry
Thanks Rgren,
I think it is better to find the cause and fix it rather than changing towing systems.
Cheers.
No. is this an OOOPS moment?
For your suspension, have you thought of airbags in the coils. I have similar setup to you, ATM 3100, ball weight approx 280kgs, and have polyair bags that I pump to 15psi when towing, huge difference, more stable etc, sits well on road. Advantage of airbags is they are adjustable and when not towing you go back to normal ride quality. Must leave about 5psi in so bags do not get pinched in coil. You probably will not need so much tension on WDH.
Barry
A lot of those 100's, later model are great tugs.
(I only gee 'em up a bit shhhh)
But. Have to replace the very soggy suspensions from new.
Bazz.
I was trying to be a little "subtle" with the grease thingy.
Old dragline driver.
Double grease everything every 4 hrs.
Thanks Bazz and Macka.
Might take a look at airbags.
Personally.
I prefer Pump up shocks on veh's.
At least they mounted on a specially reinforced area of chassis and axle
to take stress of bouncing.
Airbags have been known to bend one or two chassis rails.
UNLESS chassis rails have some reinforcing. Extending to spread the load.
Point pressure is what causes the problem.
Tow ball lubrication is usually grease which is meessy but necesary, I just use plastic bags doubled over on the tow ball clean and has worked a treat over many years and untold thousands of kilometres,plastic is made from oil So I was told by the old fellow that put me onto this,it may be wrong but I have never had any tow ball wear ever...
RON.
When working on Dams and doors. They use Teflon sheeting of differing thicknesses.
from 1in to about paper thickness. slippers for the Spillway doors.
I "acquired" some of differing measurements (offcuts???)
and used for things on boats. etc.
Anchor chain on foredeck was prime suspect. Magic.
Bright Yellow only.
Mate vacuum formed some for me yrs ago.
and I'd put that over ball. OVER the grease.
Only wear then Basically.
was absorbed by the Teflon. 350+kg on ball weights.
Yrs ago. Long gone. Just memories,
-- Edited by macka17 on Tuesday 9th of May 2017 01:39:48 PM
Yeah that sounds good Macca never tried it , but what I use is those plastic dogie poo bags doubled over,cheap and easy to find...
We put Nautilus marine grease on our ball, it still looks like new when degreased using turpentine & regreased. That's after about 50,000kms.We've been greasing our balls for 35 years, never had a problem.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Thursday 11th of May 2017 06:07:43 AM
Gday...
I wipe the tow ball clean every once in a while ... maybe fortnightly or so.
I then give a cuppla squirts of Lanotec (lanolin spray lubricant) onto the ball and up into the ball-cup on the van.
It works well - doesn't get sticky and seems not to attract sh!t etc. I am using the same ball for the past eight years, full-time traveller, so van (and the ball) have done over a 100,000Km.
There's no wear on my ball ... I know, coz I check in the shower ever day.
Cheers - John
I've been greasing my balls for waaaay longer than 35 yrs mate.
Wedding night at 21 yrs from memory. Shhhhhh.
Haven't seen mine for about 10 yrs.
cheers
blaze
Towed about 50000 kms, with 3 different vehicles and 3 different vans, and never had an issue with ball wear at all.
In fact I have seen a number of threads, where the lubrication of tow balls has been discussed, and people have specifically said NOT to use grease or similar type lubricant as it can collect grit which then acts as a grinding paste.
Perhaps I have just been lucky!
Thanks Ian,
Good point. I have been looking other other peoples balls and none seem to be greased. oops (Tow balls)
-- Edited by Snippy on Sunday 14th of May 2017 05:21:04 PM
There appears to be no defined answer on to grease or not to grease re this thread.
I have been told to spend a few $$$ each year and replace the towball.????
Jay&Dee
Gday...
Pretty true ... that's why I use Lanotec (lanolin spray) ... it does not seem to attract or retain any grit/dust etc.
As I said earlier, every few weeks I give a cuppla squirts on the top of the ball letting it run down and then a cuppla squirts up into the tow socket on a-frame.
I wipe it off before giving the new squirts.
[edit: and yep ... I agree that any two metals parts that are under pressure/friction should be given a lubricant to reduce wear]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 15th of May 2017 08:33:25 AM
""In fact I have seen a number of threads, where the lubrication of tow balls has been discussed, and people have specifically said NOT to use grease or similar type lubricant as it can collect grit which then acts as a grinding paste.""
TheHeaths^^^^^.
Regarding greasing. ^^ ONLY if you leave it on there^^^.
Normally. I leave old grease on ball under slip on cover till next tow.
Then I Normally wipe old grease off and regrease with new\fresh grease.
Have several types. (Bearing. HMP. Waterproof, etc)
Just keep small tub inside Garage door for such.
Whenever We go, where we pick up grit?? whatever, on ball.
That night I wipe off. and regrease again.
It (with 1ltr oils of each type req'd.) I carry in with tools.
And a small old fashioned "oil can". (Remember them)
Same as tyres.lights etc.
just part of travelling maintenance by the sensible.
ALL Metals, apart from a coupla self lubing ones.
That contact and move. NEED lubricating.
DRY. WET. suit yourselves. They BOTH work.
-- Edited by macka17 on Monday 15th of May 2017 01:10:32 PM