We saw them at the Caravan Show in Cairns today, and wonder if anyone has used them yet? And what they though of them. (I don't want to hear all the preachings about getting bogged)
After reading the link I realise I can't help as when reading your heading I thought you might be referring to some sort of outside loo party ritual...lol
David
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:37 PM May 12, 2017
Autobarn sell them in Townsville. Possibly better than lots of digging.
Mike Harding said
08:02 AM May 13, 2017
The principle has been around for decades.
They look like a really good idea from so many ways and I bet they work really well in the sort of staged sand recovery shown on the website.
However I suspect they would be utter rubbish in a real mud based bogged situation.
What happens with a limited slip diff?
What are they attached to at the non vehicle end? It was lucky the girl in the video happened to have a fallen tree just behind her vehicle to which to attach them both otherwise they would have been no use at all. And whatever they are attached to will need to be on an angle of zero degrees to the vehicle otherwise the vehicle will run off them.
All these sorts of products, maxtracks included, may work in some situations but if you want to be certain of being able to get unbogged then the only solution is a winch and, ideally... a wench :)
Possum3 said
08:15 AM May 13, 2017
Problem with fitted winches on truck is they are limited to one direction pull - After over 30 years in Emergency Management and Rescue there is only one methodology that suits 99.9% situations. That is a Tirfor Winch www.tractel.com/en/series.php they can be used at front, side and rear of vehicles - they don't require power (other than minor muscle effort), they can be used away from vehicle (pulling trees etc). Relatively inexpensive, remove from vehicle when city driving.
Disagree with Wench option Mike, I prefer SWMBO to be else where whilst I'm making a fool of myself.
warhorse said
08:56 AM May 13, 2017
there used to be a show on ten called "all for adventure" they had a couple of duel cab landcruisers,one towed a very large boat,the other towed a large trailer with a couple of quads and assorted gear,more than once watched as they used those bog out's to get themselves out of some pretty hairy situations, "mud and sand" while staying hitched,weather it was staged or not i don't know,certainly didn't look like it.
-- Edited by warhorse on Saturday 13th of May 2017 08:59:38 AM
Kebbin said
09:36 AM May 13, 2017
Why wouldn't they work in mud Mike? As far as having something to pull from same as winches Mike, dig a hole put the spare in the hole etc. Cheap peace of mind Dunmowin'.
Grandad5 said
09:42 AM May 13, 2017
Possum3 wrote:
Problem with fitted winches on truck is they are limited to one direction pull - After over 30 years in Emergency Management and Rescue there is only one methodology that suits 99.9% situations. That is a Tirfor Winch www.tractel.com/en/series.php they can be used at front, side and rear of vehicles - they don't require power (other than minor muscle effort), they can be used away from vehicle (pulling trees etc). Relatively inexpensive, remove from vehicle when city driving.
Have you actually used one of these Possum?
They look interesting. Having looked at bullbar mounted winches and getting advice from some 4WDers it was suggested that I would be better off with a simple "come-a-long" hand winch. Having used one in the past as a younger bloke I recall them being a fair effort to use when things got heavy.
The Tirfor appears be to several steps up in development to the old original hand winches but would you think an old fart could handle the effort if needed?
Mike Harding said
10:34 AM May 13, 2017
Could you handle the effort?
I'm early sixties, somewhat overweight and moderately unfit. I'm a biggish bloke and have always been strong although no Hercules.
About six months ago I bogged my 4WD in mud to a depth of about 6"
I spent about three hours, alone, winching it out with a Big Haul hand winch (Tirfor copy) using a single line pull. It was damn hard work but quite do-able without my feeling I was going to have a heart attack. However on one particular section of the 25 meter winch journey I was using the absolute maximum of my strength to operate the winch.
I will shortly buy some synthetic rope so the next time I need the winch I can set things up so I can use a snatch block and rig a double line pull. This will reduce the effort needed at the winch handle by up to 50% of a single line pull. However, there's nowt for nowt in physics and each winch operation will only move the vehicle half as far - the overall energy remains much the same.
Can you do it? Dunno? Can you push, say, a small family car up a very slight incline? I guess that's the sort of effort required.
Edit:
Quote: "There Comes a time in life, when you must walk away from all drama and the people who create it."
Your signature has much wisdom: sometimes even those we love must be excluded from our lives in order to preserve ourselves - a very hard and painful thing to do.
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Saturday 13th of May 2017 10:39:51 AM
Possum3 said
11:21 AM May 13, 2017
Grandad 5, As I alluded above I have been using Tirfors in many situations for over 30 years - I have also used some of the "Generics" from Alltools and such. I'm in my mid seventies and used one to pull out a massive root only this year.
Having been a recipient of open heart (CABG X 4) I do not exert myself beyond moderate exercise. When I'm off-roading on "Safaris" I always carry a 5 Tonne Tirfor + a couple of sheave blocks - haven't yet had anything I couldn't put back on it's wheels or any tree that I couldn't relocate. Another advantage of Tirfor over electric winch is the latent energy in "rope" is much less, making it safer from snap back twang.
Grandad5 said
04:00 PM May 13, 2017
Thank you guys,
From your honest and frank descriptions of yourselves I'm more confident I should be able to handle it, at least in bursts.
BTW...I'm late 60's, on the thin side, strong heart but no stamina in the lungs department from far too many decades a smoker.
Cheers
Jim
Oh yeah...Mike. I was almost going to delete my signature and try something else. It was very relevant to me when I first put it up but and have since acted upon that advice and therefore felt maybe no longer relevant.
I might just leave it there a while longer. And if its meaningful to you, I can report things worked out much better than my worst case scenario at the time. No regrets here.
J
Dunmowin said
04:50 PM May 13, 2017
Filtering through the responses above/below...
Warren-Pat_01 There are quite a few places here in Cairns that sell them, and the going price is the same as that of the caravan show.
Mike Harding We spoke with a chappie at the show (who was not selling these items) He has used them for quite a few years, both sand and mud and swears by them. I asked the same question about the "non vehicle end" and was told you would dig a hole and bury something - just as you would if you were using a winch
Possum3 Agree about the one direction of the winch. As for the suggested Tirfor Winch Mr D is looking for something a little less energetic these days.
We have just sold our winch today - has been sitting on the front of the 4wd gathering dirt, dust and insects for the past six years. Goodbye 32kg, hello BogOut 2kg
-- Edited by Dunmowin on Saturday 13th of May 2017 04:50:33 PM
Cupie said
11:05 PM May 25, 2017
Possum3 wrote:
Grandad 5, As I alluded above I have been using Tirfors in many situations for over 30 years - I have also used some of the "Generics" from Alltools and such. I'm in my mid seventies and used one to pull out a massive root only this year. Having been a recipient of open heart (CABG X 4) I do not exert myself beyond moderate exercise. When I'm off-roading on "Safaris" I always carry a 5 Tonne Tirfor + a couple of sheave blocks - haven't yet had anything I couldn't put back on it's wheels or any tree that I couldn't relocate. Another advantage of Tirfor over electric winch is the latent energy in "rope" is much less, making it safer from snap back twang.
Around half a century ago I used to use them to pull 25 pounder & 105 mm Field Artillery guns out of gun pits etc. I can vouch for their effectiveness ... but I had lots of young gunners to take turns on the lever. Don't think that I could handle one these days .. but then I don't do off road.
CharlieAubin said
08:10 PM Jun 3, 2017
Hi all, BOG OUT here. Just to clear up a few points. We sell the BOG OUT kits in single or twin pacs, a single will get you out of light bogs, the twin (recommended) will get you out of pretty well anything you can get yourself into. Put two on and you effectively lock your diff (front or back - forward or reverse) and get access to full engine horsepower, lets say 100hp, compare that to an electric winch of 5 or 6hp, and you can see there's no shortage of power. Apart from massive power, the other differences are your wheels come for free with your vehicle, they'll pull forward or reverse - just change gear and will go all day - never flatten your battery.
I agree Tirfor type devices (the quality ones) are the most all round devices, they used to be my 'go to' recovery device too (I do hire 4wd vehicle recovery), but don't forget they weigh 56kg including the cable, take up heaps of room, still need an anchor point (same as all winch devices BOG OUT included) and are 1pp (person power) about 1/3 of 1 hp (maybe) = lots of sweat. BOG OUT will do the same job, but aren't much good for righting rolled vehicles or pulling trees out of the ground.
Anchoring has been mentioned. BOG OUT requires less of an anchor strength than all other winching devices because they place the tow point at the lowest possible point on your vehicle, the very bottom of your tyre. The lower the tow point, the easier the recovery - the recovery angle is positive or up and out of the bog as opposed to higher mounted equipment like winches (hand, PTO or electric), tow ropes and snatch straps that at best pull the vehicle flat through the obstruction or bog and at worse - downwards to the anchor and into the problem increasing load ie negative angle. Lighter anchoring requirement for BOG OUT also means less sweat, money, time and most importantly - risk.
A BOG OUT anchor needs to be fairly in line with your tyre, but not dead straight. The actual harness captures your tyre and pulls from the sidewall. The more load on them the more the tyre is forced to stay in the harness. Depending on the aggression of your tyre tread, they can be off from 10 - 20 degrees, and don't forget you can steer your front wheels towards a tree off the track, about 30 degrees either side, so you can generally find something to get onto. But if not, put a ground anchor in, a standard job for 4wd'rs. We never bury tyres, too much sweat, we don't need massive anchorage, we use saplings and short star pickets, and 5kg danforth boat sand anchors work well on the beach, They're quick cheap tough and easy - self digging.
BOG OUT's work the same in sand, mud or snow. Attach the BOG OUT to the top of the tyre (out of the mud) and put the car in gear and it'll rotate the tyre and pull the BOG OUT into position at the bottom of the bog - let the car do the dirty work. Attach the other end to something and simply drive out, usually at idle, you definitely don't need 100 hp, 10 - 20hp is plenty, no problem for any car. Once out of the bog, leave the BOG OUT on your tyre and drive far enough away, then reverse and they fall off on the track, easy.
Check out our website www.bogout.com there's heaps of info there. Cheers for now.
Dunmowin said
02:47 PM Jun 6, 2017
CharlieAubin wrote:
Hi all, BOG OUT here. Just to clear up a few points. We sell the BOG OUT kits in single or twin pacs, a single will get you out of light bogs, the twin (recommended) will get you out of pretty well anything you can get yourself into. Put two on and you effectively lock your diff (front or back - forward or reverse) and get access to full engine horsepower, lets say 100hp, compare that to an electric winch of 5 or 6hp, and you can see there's no shortage of power. Apart from massive power, the other differences are your wheels come for free with your vehicle, they'll pull forward or reverse - just change gear and will go all day - never flatten your battery.
I agree Tirfor type devices (the quality ones) are the most all round devices, they used to be my 'go to' recovery device too (I do hire 4wd vehicle recovery), but don't forget they weigh 56kg including the cable, take up heaps of room, still need an anchor point (same as all winch devices BOG OUT included) and are 1pp (person power) about 1/3 of 1 hp (maybe) = lots of sweat. BOG OUT will do the same job, but aren't much good for righting rolled vehicles or pulling trees out of the ground.
Anchoring has been mentioned. BOG OUT requires less of an anchor strength than all other winching devices because they place the tow point at the lowest possible point on your vehicle, the very bottom of your tyre. The lower the tow point, the easier the recovery - the recovery angle is positive or up and out of the bog as opposed to higher mounted equipment like winches (hand, PTO or electric), tow ropes and snatch straps that at best pull the vehicle flat through the obstruction or bog and at worse - downwards to the anchor and into the problem increasing load ie negative angle. Lighter anchoring requirement for BOG OUT also means less sweat, money, time and most importantly - risk.
A BOG OUT anchor needs to be fairly in line with your tyre, but not dead straight. The actual harness captures your tyre and pulls from the sidewall. The more load on them the more the tyre is forced to stay in the harness. Depending on the aggression of your tyre tread, they can be off from 10 - 20 degrees, and don't forget you can steer your front wheels towards a tree off the track, about 30 degrees either side, so you can generally find something to get onto. But if not, put a ground anchor in, a standard job for 4wd'rs. We never bury tyres, too much sweat, we don't need massive anchorage, we use saplings and short star pickets, and 5kg danforth boat sand anchors work well on the beach, They're quick cheap tough and easy - self digging.
BOG OUT's work the same in sand, mud or snow. Attach the BOG OUT to the top of the tyre (out of the mud) and put the car in gear and it'll rotate the tyre and pull the BOG OUT into position at the bottom of the bog - let the car do the dirty work. Attach the other end to something and simply drive out, usually at idle, you definitely don't need 100 hp, 10 - 20hp is plenty, no problem for any car. Once out of the bog, leave the BOG OUT on your tyre and drive far enough away, then reverse and they fall off on the track, easy.
Check out our website www.bogout.com there's heaps of info there. Cheers for now.
Thanks ChalieAubin, since starting this tread last month, we have bought our double set of Bog Outs. Hopefully, we will never have to use them, but peace of mind prevails. Going up the cape next month, so sorting these things out while in Cairns. Thanks for taking the time to answering some questions on our forum.
CharlieAubin said
04:44 PM Jun 6, 2017
Thrilled to hear you have the BOG OUT recovery kit just in case something happens. Please feel free to connect - we'd love to hear about your adventure. We have a 1300 BOG OUT number if you need to contact us or ask any questions. Bye for now. Charlie
This was originally bought to the forum in by Sheba http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t59428453/bog-aide/
We saw them at the Caravan Show in Cairns today, and wonder if anyone has used them yet? And what they though of them. (I don't want to hear all the preachings about getting bogged)
http://www.bogout.com/
Hi Lorraine & John,
After reading the link I realise I can't help as when reading your heading I thought you might be referring to some sort of outside loo party ritual...lol
David
The principle has been around for decades.
They look like a really good idea from so many ways and I bet they work really well in the sort of staged sand recovery shown on the website.
However I suspect they would be utter rubbish in a real mud based bogged situation.
What happens with a limited slip diff?
What are they attached to at the non vehicle end? It was lucky the girl in the video happened to have a fallen tree just behind her vehicle to which to attach them both otherwise they would have been no use at all. And whatever they are attached to will need to be on an angle of zero degrees to the vehicle otherwise the vehicle will run off them.
All these sorts of products, maxtracks included, may work in some situations but if you want to be certain of being able to get unbogged then the only solution is a winch and, ideally... a wench :)
Disagree with Wench option Mike, I prefer SWMBO to be else where whilst I'm making a fool of myself.
there used to be a show on ten called "all for adventure" they had a couple of duel cab landcruisers,one towed a very large boat,the other towed a large trailer with a couple of quads and assorted gear,more than once watched as they used those bog out's to get themselves out of some pretty hairy situations, "mud and sand" while staying hitched,weather it was staged or not i don't know,certainly didn't look like it.
-- Edited by warhorse on Saturday 13th of May 2017 08:59:38 AM
Have you actually used one of these Possum?
They look interesting. Having looked at bullbar mounted winches and getting advice from some 4WDers it was suggested that I would be better off with a simple "come-a-long" hand winch. Having used one in the past as a younger bloke I recall them being a fair effort to use when things got heavy.
The Tirfor appears be to several steps up in development to the old original hand winches but would you think an old fart could handle the effort if needed?
Could you handle the effort?
I'm early sixties, somewhat overweight and moderately unfit. I'm a biggish bloke and have always been strong although no Hercules.
About six months ago I bogged my 4WD in mud to a depth of about 6"
I spent about three hours, alone, winching it out with a Big Haul hand winch (Tirfor copy) using a single line pull. It was damn hard work but quite do-able without my feeling I was going to have a heart attack. However on one particular section of the 25 meter winch journey I was using the absolute maximum of my strength to operate the winch.
I will shortly buy some synthetic rope so the next time I need the winch I can set things up so I can use a snatch block and rig a double line pull. This will reduce the effort needed at the winch handle by up to 50% of a single line pull. However, there's nowt for nowt in physics and each winch operation will only move the vehicle half as far - the overall energy remains much the same.
Can you do it? Dunno? Can you push, say, a small family car up a very slight incline? I guess that's the sort of effort required.
Edit:
Quote: "There Comes a time in life, when you must walk away from all drama and the people who create it."
Your signature has much wisdom: sometimes even those we love must be excluded from our lives in order to preserve ourselves - a very hard and painful thing to do.
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Saturday 13th of May 2017 10:39:51 AM
Having been a recipient of open heart (CABG X 4) I do not exert myself beyond moderate exercise. When I'm off-roading on "Safaris" I always carry a 5 Tonne Tirfor + a couple of sheave blocks - haven't yet had anything I couldn't put back on it's wheels or any tree that I couldn't relocate. Another advantage of Tirfor over electric winch is the latent energy in "rope" is much less, making it safer from snap back twang.
From your honest and frank descriptions of yourselves I'm more confident I should be able to handle it, at least in bursts.
BTW...I'm late 60's, on the thin side, strong heart but no stamina in the lungs department from far too many decades a smoker.
Cheers
Jim
Oh yeah...Mike. I was almost going to delete my signature and try something else. It was very relevant to me when I first put it up but and have since acted upon that advice and therefore felt maybe no longer relevant.
I might just leave it there a while longer. And if its meaningful to you, I can report things worked out much better than my worst case scenario at the time. No regrets here.
J
Filtering through the responses above/below...
Warren-Pat_01 There are quite a few places here in Cairns that sell them, and the going price is the same as that of the caravan show.
Mike Harding We spoke with a chappie at the show (who was not selling these items) He has used them for quite a few years, both sand and mud and swears by them. I asked the same question about the "non vehicle end" and was told you would dig a hole and bury something - just as you would if you were using a winch
Possum3 Agree about the one direction of the winch. As for the suggested Tirfor Winch Mr D is looking for something a little less energetic these days.
warhorse Thanks for the vote of confidence
Kebbin Agree, cheap piece of mind. All our recovery gear is here for just that. We have never had to use it for ourselves - yet, only to help others.
and finally, daffyfrancis , don't be cheeky!
We have just sold our winch today - has been sitting on the front of the 4wd gathering dirt, dust and insects for the past six years. Goodbye 32kg, hello BogOut 2kg
-- Edited by Dunmowin on Saturday 13th of May 2017 04:50:33 PM
Around half a century ago I used to use them to pull 25 pounder & 105 mm Field Artillery guns out of gun pits etc. I can vouch for their effectiveness ... but I had lots of young gunners to take turns on the lever. Don't think that I could handle one these days .. but then I don't do off road.
Hi all, BOG OUT here. Just to clear up a few points. We sell the BOG OUT kits in single or twin pacs, a single will get you out of light bogs, the twin (recommended) will get you out of pretty well anything you can get yourself into. Put two on and you effectively lock your diff (front or back - forward or reverse) and get access to full engine horsepower, lets say 100hp, compare that to an electric winch of 5 or 6hp, and you can see there's no shortage of power. Apart from massive power, the other differences are your wheels come for free with your vehicle, they'll pull forward or reverse - just change gear and will go all day - never flatten your battery.
I agree Tirfor type devices (the quality ones) are the most all round devices, they used to be my 'go to' recovery device too (I do hire 4wd vehicle recovery), but don't forget they weigh 56kg including the cable, take up heaps of room, still need an anchor point (same as all winch devices BOG OUT included) and are 1pp (person power) about 1/3 of 1 hp (maybe) = lots of sweat. BOG OUT will do the same job, but aren't much good for righting rolled vehicles or pulling trees out of the ground.
Anchoring has been mentioned. BOG OUT requires less of an anchor strength than all other winching devices because they place the tow point at the lowest possible point on your vehicle, the very bottom of your tyre. The lower the tow point, the easier the recovery - the recovery angle is positive or up and out of the bog as opposed to higher mounted equipment like winches (hand, PTO or electric), tow ropes and snatch straps that at best pull the vehicle flat through the obstruction or bog and at worse - downwards to the anchor and into the problem increasing load ie negative angle. Lighter anchoring requirement for BOG OUT also means less sweat, money, time and most importantly - risk.
A BOG OUT anchor needs to be fairly in line with your tyre, but not dead straight. The actual harness captures your tyre and pulls from the sidewall. The more load on them the more the tyre is forced to stay in the harness. Depending on the aggression of your tyre tread, they can be off from 10 - 20 degrees, and don't forget you can steer your front wheels towards a tree off the track, about 30 degrees either side, so you can generally find something to get onto. But if not, put a ground anchor in, a standard job for 4wd'rs. We never bury tyres, too much sweat, we don't need massive anchorage, we use saplings and short star pickets, and 5kg danforth boat sand anchors work well on the beach, They're quick cheap tough and easy - self digging.
BOG OUT's work the same in sand, mud or snow. Attach the BOG OUT to the top of the tyre (out of the mud) and put the car in gear and it'll rotate the tyre and pull the BOG OUT into position at the bottom of the bog - let the car do the dirty work. Attach the other end to something and simply drive out, usually at idle, you definitely don't need 100 hp, 10 - 20hp is plenty, no problem for any car. Once out of the bog, leave the BOG OUT on your tyre and drive far enough away, then reverse and they fall off on the track, easy.
Check out our website www.bogout.com there's heaps of info there. Cheers for now.
Thanks ChalieAubin, since starting this tread last month, we have bought our double set of Bog Outs. Hopefully, we will never have to use them, but peace of mind prevails. Going up the cape next month, so sorting these things out while in Cairns. Thanks for taking the time to answering some questions on our forum.
Thrilled to hear you have the BOG OUT recovery kit just in case something happens. Please feel free to connect - we'd love to hear about your adventure. We have a 1300 BOG OUT number if you need to contact us or ask any questions. Bye for now. Charlie