I know its a horse thats been flogged before many times and most of the old timers on the forum are sick of it , but I have a query to do with weights again.
I have a ranger and have been checking over all my vehicle and van weights .
I am running fairly close to the limit on my GCM of 6000kg
I investigated other vehicles limits and personally dont want to drive a truck or F'y round town
I have seen that the Landcruiser cab chassis has a GCM of 6800kg.
It weighs no more than 50 kg more than the ranger and has a GVM of 3300 and the ranger 3200 so it cant carry much more , it legally cant tow more either as both limited to 3500kg.
What is the difference that makes the LC have a GCM of 800kg more than the ranger??
TheHeaths said
08:10 AM May 27, 2017
The manufacturer of the vehicle sets what they see as the safe limits for the vehicle when they construct it.
They base it on their engineering of the chassis, drive train, brakes, tyres body etc.
Because they look similar and weigh similar does not mean they are made to the same level, nor engineered to load the same.
The Landcruiser cab chassis is also built on the 70 Series base, which is much more of a commercial vehicle, while the Ranger is one of the current crop of gentrified utes, made as much for the city as for working. You would find especially that the suspension and chassis while looking similar would be lighter than the LC. You would notice a major difference in ride and comfort between the 2.
That is my read on the difference.
Hylife said
03:09 PM May 27, 2017
In laymans terms, the advertising/marketing numbers don't always add up, for most brands. The GCM rarely equates to the simple formula of 'GVM + Max Tow = GCM'.
GVM, max tow mass and GCM can be all separate.
In many vehicles weights/masses must be reduced if you go over a certain limits because they are simply not strong, powerful or safe enough to max out everything at once.
The GVM is the maximum weight of the vehicle including all its passengers and payload and load on the tow ball, but may not be allowed when at its towing maximums.
EG. You want tow 3500kg behind, then only a lesser 'X' kg (GVM) is allowed in/on the vehicle. Similarly, if you want to put the max GVM in/on the vehicle, then only the lesser 'X' kg tow mass is allowed to be pulled behind.
The GCM is the maximum permissible combination of the vehicle, its passengers, its payload and its towed mass, so simply doing 3200+3500=6700 is wrong for the Ranger which you say has a GCM of 6000.
So if you put the max 3500 tow mass behind the Ranger then you have to reduce the GVM by 700kg, or max the GVM and reduce the tow mass by 700kg.
Assuming your figures are correct, then you are not be permitted to load up the Ranger to a max GVM of 3200 and then hook up the max towing mass of 3500 because this exceeds the GCM of 6,000.
mezza56 said
08:47 AM May 28, 2017
I full well realise all that Hylife , I was asking then why is it that the GCM of the Landcruiser 800 kg over its GVM and TOW .
In fact now you can have the GCM of the 200 series landcruiser upgraded by 500kg to 7300kg .
I think that the Heaths answer is more likely , (ie) a heavier chassis ,or larger HP .
But it still doesn't say why Toyota add the GVM of the car and the 3500kg tow limit together for the GCM on their vehicles they do the same on the hilux.
FORD RANGER, MAZDA BT 50 , HOLDEN COLORADO , NISSAN all don't increase the GCM ???
TheHeaths said
10:09 AM May 28, 2017
Mark,
the reason that Toyota add the Tow Allowance to the GVM to set GCM is that they are happy to allow the vehicle to be loaded fully and then tow a full allowance. What they are effectively saying is that they are happy that all parts of the package are engineered and manufactured so that they can be utilised to their maximum and Toyota still be confident the package will work.
The others are happy for the vehicle to tow their quoted figure, as long as the vehicle isn't full, but want to limit the total (GCM) to a figure they believe the vehicles components can handle in total. In other words, to compete in tow capability, they must sacrifice in total combination capacity because they are not totally confident that they will work long term at their maximum quoted figures.
The Toyota GCM is not 800 kg over the GVM and Tow figures though based on your quoted figures. Toyota GVM is 3300, Tow is 3500, so GCM is 6800.
In short Toyota have more confidence to fully load a Landcruiser than Ford do to fully load a Ranger. For that to be the case, I would expect that there are major differences in components and construction of the 2 vehicles.
This has been a bone of contention with these new generation utes for the past few years. Tow weights being quoted without explaining under what circumstances they can do that, ie reduced ute capacity.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Sunday 28th of May 2017 10:12:37 AM
macka17 said
02:27 PM May 28, 2017
Toyota must have changed the figures on this 200 thing.
With the 100's they could TOW 300kg more than 3 ltr Patrol. When loaded. and Physically CARRY 30 kg more than Patrol. They had max figure but higher on tyres weight. Which reduced the Carrying capacity.
You saying now, that they don't reduce towing figures with max drawbar and total loaded veh weights?.
Or reduce veh weight limits with MAX weights on drawbar and ball?. (3300 = 3500?)
Be the only one that did I'd think.
My doctor has a beef farm. and a 200 ser. But he tows his tandem 3.5ton trlr with sons Isuzu truck.
Good farm workhorse, but not with 3 and a half ton behind it he says.
His Driving car is a Mercedes 4wd. Now THAT's a nice 4 wheel drive. to drive and tow.
He just bought a late model Troopy at Auctions, To replace it with.
Better work truck. 200 too soggy in suspension..
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 28th of May 2017 02:29:39 PM
TheHeaths said
07:47 PM May 28, 2017
Not the 200 series Macka.
If you look at Marks post he is asking about the cab chassis, which is the 70 series, same as the Troopy.
The GCM on the Toyota vehicles I have looked at are all GVM plus Maximum Tow.
montie said
02:31 PM May 30, 2017
The measured weight of your combination cannot exceed the lesser of the following:
a) The tug manufacturers published GCM rating if it has one.
b) Tug GVM plus van GTM. Or GVM plus ATM minus ball weight.
Tug manufacturers do not stamp a GCM rating on the compliance plate so you will need to refer to the owners handbook or online published specs to determine if it has a rating and what it is if it does.
Montie
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 30th of May 2017 02:32:04 PM
I know its a horse thats been flogged before many times and most of the old timers on the forum are sick of it , but I have a query to do with weights again.
I have a ranger and have been checking over all my vehicle and van weights .
I am running fairly close to the limit on my GCM of 6000kg
I investigated other vehicles limits and personally dont want to drive a truck or F'y round town
I have seen that the Landcruiser cab chassis has a GCM of 6800kg.
It weighs no more than 50 kg more than the ranger and has a GVM of 3300 and the ranger 3200 so it cant carry much more , it legally cant tow more either as both limited to 3500kg.
What is the difference that makes the LC have a GCM of 800kg more than the ranger??
They base it on their engineering of the chassis, drive train, brakes, tyres body etc.
Because they look similar and weigh similar does not mean they are made to the same level, nor engineered to load the same.
The Landcruiser cab chassis is also built on the 70 Series base, which is much more of a commercial vehicle, while the Ranger is one of the current crop of gentrified utes, made as much for the city as for working. You would find especially that the suspension and chassis while looking similar would be lighter than the LC. You would notice a major difference in ride and comfort between the 2.
That is my read on the difference.
In laymans terms, the advertising/marketing numbers don't always add up, for most brands. The GCM rarely equates to the simple formula of 'GVM + Max Tow = GCM'.
GVM, max tow mass and GCM can be all separate.
In many vehicles weights/masses must be reduced if you go over a certain limits because they are simply not strong, powerful or safe enough to max out everything at once.
The GVM is the maximum weight of the vehicle including all its passengers and payload and load on the tow ball, but may not be allowed when at its towing maximums.
EG.
You want tow 3500kg behind, then only a lesser 'X' kg (GVM) is allowed in/on the vehicle.
Similarly, if you want to put the max GVM in/on the vehicle, then only the lesser 'X' kg tow mass is allowed to be pulled behind.
The GCM is the maximum permissible combination of the vehicle, its passengers, its payload and its towed mass, so simply doing 3200+3500=6700 is wrong for the Ranger which you say has a GCM of 6000.
So if you put the max 3500 tow mass behind the Ranger then you have to reduce the GVM by 700kg, or max the GVM and reduce the tow mass by 700kg.
Assuming your figures are correct, then you are not be permitted to load up the Ranger to a max GVM of 3200 and then hook up the max towing mass of 3500 because this exceeds the GCM of 6,000.
I full well realise all that Hylife , I was asking then why is it that the GCM of the Landcruiser 800 kg over its GVM and TOW .
In fact now you can have the GCM of the 200 series landcruiser upgraded by 500kg to 7300kg .
I think that the Heaths answer is more likely , (ie) a heavier chassis ,or larger HP .
But it still doesn't say why Toyota add the GVM of the car and the 3500kg tow limit together for the GCM on their vehicles they do the same on the hilux.
FORD RANGER, MAZDA BT 50 , HOLDEN COLORADO , NISSAN all don't increase the GCM ???
Mark,
the reason that Toyota add the Tow Allowance to the GVM to set GCM is that they are happy to allow the vehicle to be loaded fully and then tow a full allowance. What they are effectively saying is that they are happy that all parts of the package are engineered and manufactured so that they can be utilised to their maximum and Toyota still be confident the package will work.
The others are happy for the vehicle to tow their quoted figure, as long as the vehicle isn't full, but want to limit the total (GCM) to a figure they believe the vehicles components can handle in total. In other words, to compete in tow capability, they must sacrifice in total combination capacity because they are not totally confident that they will work long term at their maximum quoted figures.
The Toyota GCM is not 800 kg over the GVM and Tow figures though based on your quoted figures. Toyota GVM is 3300, Tow is 3500, so GCM is 6800.
In short Toyota have more confidence to fully load a Landcruiser than Ford do to fully load a Ranger. For that to be the case, I would expect that there are major differences in components and construction of the 2 vehicles.
This has been a bone of contention with these new generation utes for the past few years. Tow weights being quoted without explaining under what circumstances they can do that, ie reduced ute capacity.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Sunday 28th of May 2017 10:12:37 AM
Toyota must have changed the figures on this 200 thing.
With the 100's they could TOW 300kg more than 3 ltr Patrol. When loaded.
and Physically CARRY 30 kg more than Patrol.
They had max figure but higher on tyres weight.
Which reduced the Carrying capacity.
You saying now, that they don't reduce towing figures with max drawbar and total loaded veh weights?.
Or reduce veh weight limits with MAX weights on drawbar and ball?. (3300 = 3500?)
Be the only one that did I'd think.
My doctor has a beef farm. and a 200 ser. But he tows his tandem 3.5ton trlr with sons Isuzu truck.
Good farm workhorse, but not with 3 and a half ton behind it he says.
His Driving car is a Mercedes 4wd.
Now THAT's a nice 4 wheel drive. to drive and tow.
He just bought a late model Troopy at Auctions, To replace it with.
Better work truck. 200 too soggy in suspension..
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 28th of May 2017 02:29:39 PM
If you look at Marks post he is asking about the cab chassis, which is the 70 series, same as the Troopy.
The GCM on the Toyota vehicles I have looked at are all GVM plus Maximum Tow.
The measured weight of your combination cannot exceed the lesser of the following:
a) The tug manufacturers published GCM rating if it has one.
b) Tug GVM plus van GTM. Or GVM plus ATM minus ball weight.
Tug manufacturers do not stamp a GCM rating on the compliance plate so you will need to refer to the owners handbook or online published specs to determine if it has a rating and what it is if it does.
Montie
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 30th of May 2017 02:32:04 PM