Travelling companion 100 series Toyota Landcruiser blew auxiliary battery to pieces (12 months old) - all the sparkies out there any ideas, or just a faulty battery?
Barboots said
08:43 PM Jun 22, 2017
A dead cell can cause pretty serious boiling and/or swelling... you're effectively charging a 10V battery with 12V. I suppose two or more cells going bad could increase the severity of the result significantly. Got pix???
Cheers, Steve
Possum3 said
09:02 PM Jun 22, 2017
No photo's of battery - It was totally destroyed on the Earth end over half of battery missing.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:12 PM Jun 22, 2017
Sounds like over charging ? Was there a dead short on battery cable ?
Possum3 said
09:23 PM Jun 22, 2017
Unknown, Don't think so he was just revving it a bit, car continued to run OK on main battery- It was if someone had put a tuppeny bunger in it - Kaboom!
iana said
09:36 PM Jun 22, 2017
Here's how I understood what can happen. Gas is generated mainly at Hi discharge and Hi charge amperage. The battery is made up of cells linked together by a bus bar running across the top of the cells. This bus bar is kept covered by electrolyte and this is what keeps the bus bar cool during hi amperage drain.
The new low maintenance batteries unlike the older so called wet batteries have no access ports to top up the electrolyte, so if the (I won't say sealed because they aren't), low maintenance battery is not gently charged, i.e. charged by an older type of charger, or a charger that is faulty, the electrolyte can be boiled away, lowering the level so the bus bars are exposed. so now we have an explosive atmosphere, and bus bars that cannot be cooled.
Now do a jump start on a big motor, the bus bar will glow red hot and bang!!!!!!!!
Possum3 said
09:37 PM Jun 22, 2017
Just talking to him - may have solved it - he said when he had it out the other day he tipped it to get in in the limited area - I surmise that the acid emptied from one cell allowing a build up of hydrogen in that cell - thanks for your input guys.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:39 PM Jun 22, 2017
Had a battery explode in my face years ago tightening lose connection .. I guess a spark ignited the hydrogen ? Or gasses .. Ended up with acid in eyes etc . Washed off quick smart .. Lucky garden hose was close !!! One reason they install eye washes at mechanic places .When batteries are being recharged, they generate hydrogen gas that is explosive in certain concentrations in air (explosive limits are 4.1 to 72 percent hydrogen in air). The ventilation system can exchange an adequate amount of fresh air for the number of batteries being charged. This is essential to prevent an explosion. Also, no flame, burning cigarette, or other source of ignition should be permitted in the area.
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Thursday 22nd of June 2017 09:43:11 PM
John Kay said
09:06 AM Jun 23, 2017
When we clean battery acid, we use warm water and then a mixture with an alkaline (baking Soda to neutralise the acid) when doing this we use protective eye glasses and gloves and hope we don't get our clothes wet finally wash down. Safety first.
T1 Terry said
10:47 AM Jun 23, 2017
And they say lithium batteries are dangerous The LiPo ones might go bang if mistreated but the LiFeP04 don't/can't explode as such, just crack a piece out of the plastic case if the pressure inside can't escape fast enough.
Another warning as to just how dangerous lead acid batteries can be, yet how many have them under their bed
Wondering, was the rotten egg smell present before the big bang?
T1 Terry
iana said
12:38 PM Jun 23, 2017
Before we start a panic, the early lead acid batteries were prone to emit gas when under high loads, or used with the older uncontrolled chargers (identified by having electrolyte filler caps over each cell). These days most battery plates are made with a cadmium/lead alloy, while they are still wet, they emit little or no gas when used with the modern 5-8 stage chargers when charging or when discharging at low outputs. These batteries are quite save under the bed, unless you short out with the bed springs, these batteries are identified by having no caps, just a window so you can see the condition of the electrolyte, and known as low maintenance batteries.
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:27 PM Jun 23, 2017
Could be temperature of the battery, over charging. Often the connection to the battery post corrodes through - if this happens, an arc could occur & igniting the gas. Have seen it in clear cased Telstra batteries.
The car should be checked by an expert.
Possum3 said
11:34 PM Jun 23, 2017
Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
Could be temperature of the battery, over charging. Often the connection to the battery post corrodes through - if this happens, an arc could occur & igniting the gas. Have seen it in clear cased Telstra batteries. The car should be checked by an expert.
Definitely not overheated - only running less than two minutes from overnight stop. I believe his tipping the battery on end to get it into confined space was cause.
T1 Terry said
11:29 AM Jun 24, 2017
iana wrote:
Before we start a panic, the early lead acid batteries were prone to emit gas when under high loads, or used with the older uncontrolled chargers (identified by having electrolyte filler caps over each cell). These days most battery plates are made with a cadmium/lead alloy, while they are still wet, they emit little or no gas when used with the modern 5-8 stage chargers when charging or when discharging at low outputs. These batteries are quite save under the bed, unless you short out with the bed springs, these batteries are identified by having no caps, just a window so you can see the condition of the electrolyte, and known as low maintenance batteries.
If a cell shorts internally which is the thing that kills battery cells and therefore makes the battery useless, the voltage in that cell drops and can not be brought back up. The charger is looking reach 14.4v or higher depending on the setting and this requires each cell to reach 2.4v. If a cell reaches a higher voltage than this the electrolyte will separate into hydrogen and oxygen at a faster rate than normal, if it reaches 2.6v the electrolyte will be bubbling like a pot on the stove resulting in electrolyte loss at a rate faster than the AGM recombiner can turn them back into water.
14.4v spread over 6 cells can include a lot of voltage combinations and still add up to 14.4v, the cell that has shorted across its plates will drop to 0v or close to it, now the 14.4v is spread across 5 cells and even perfectly balanced each of the remaining cells would be held at 2.88v and would be gassing far beyond the design limits of the battery case construction. That shorted cell will eventually draw that much current the joiners across the top of the plates begin to fail and an arc is created. This is all that is required to ignite a perfect mix of hydrogen and oxygen that has built up under pressure inside the battery case.... boom.
We already have the report of the Boom so there is no denying it happens, bury your head in the sand all you like it won't stop the laws of physics
T1 Terry
oldbloke said
09:44 PM Jun 27, 2017
Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
Could be temperature of the battery, over charging. Often the connection to the battery post corrodes through - if this happens, an arc could occur & igniting the gas. Have seen it in clear cased Telstra batteries. The car should be checked by an expert.
Yes could happen. Particularly if the battery was covered or enclosed in some way allowing the hydrogen gas generated by charging to be concentrated rather than venting away freely into the air. Combined with a loose connection to ignight the gas it's sure way to cause an explosion.
blissonwheels said
10:00 AM Jun 28, 2017
Have had this happen to me a few years ago, coming down the Tanami, stopped over night, in the morning Jeep Battery dead, got a jump start from a passer by, as the day went on, checked it out and found the battery was boiling it's head off. Had to get jump started again the next morning at Yeundemu and made it to Alice Springs with it. Went and bought a new battery and put in and all was fine.
Assumed that two cells had collapsed and shorted out.
It does happen, this was an original Mopar sealed Battery 4 years old.
Travelling companion 100 series Toyota Landcruiser blew auxiliary battery to pieces (12 months old) - all the sparkies out there any ideas, or just a faulty battery?
The new low maintenance batteries unlike the older so called wet batteries have no access ports to top up the electrolyte, so if the (I won't say sealed because they aren't), low maintenance battery is not gently charged, i.e. charged by an older type of charger, or a charger that is faulty, the electrolyte can be boiled away, lowering the level so the bus bars are exposed. so now we have an explosive atmosphere, and bus bars that cannot be cooled.
Now do a jump start on a big motor, the bus bar will glow red hot and bang!!!!!!!!
Had a battery explode in my face years ago tightening lose connection .. I guess a spark ignited the hydrogen ? Or gasses .. Ended up with acid in eyes etc . Washed off quick smart .. Lucky garden hose was close !!! One reason they install eye washes at mechanic places .When batteries are being recharged, they generate hydrogen gas that is explosive in certain concentrations in air (explosive limits are 4.1 to 72 percent hydrogen in air). The ventilation system can exchange an adequate amount of fresh air for the number of batteries being charged. This is essential to prevent an explosion. Also, no flame, burning cigarette, or other source of ignition should be permitted in the area.
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Thursday 22nd of June 2017 09:43:11 PM
And they say lithium batteries are dangerous
The LiPo ones might go bang if mistreated but the LiFeP04 don't/can't explode as such, just crack a piece out of the plastic case if the pressure inside can't escape fast enough.
Another warning as to just how dangerous lead acid batteries can be, yet how many have them under their bed
Wondering, was the rotten egg smell present before the big bang?
T1 Terry
The car should be checked by an expert.
Definitely not overheated - only running less than two minutes from overnight stop. I believe his tipping the battery on end to get it into confined space was cause.
If a cell shorts internally which is the thing that kills battery cells and therefore makes the battery useless, the voltage in that cell drops and can not be brought back up. The charger is looking reach 14.4v or higher depending on the setting and this requires each cell to reach 2.4v. If a cell reaches a higher voltage than this the electrolyte will separate into hydrogen and oxygen at a faster rate than normal, if it reaches 2.6v the electrolyte will be bubbling like a pot on the stove resulting in electrolyte loss at a rate faster than the AGM recombiner can turn them back into water.
14.4v spread over 6 cells can include a lot of voltage combinations and still add up to 14.4v, the cell that has shorted across its plates will drop to 0v or close to it, now the 14.4v is spread across 5 cells and even perfectly balanced each of the remaining cells would be held at 2.88v and would be gassing far beyond the design limits of the battery case construction. That shorted cell will eventually draw that much current the joiners across the top of the plates begin to fail and an arc is created. This is all that is required to ignite a perfect mix of hydrogen and oxygen that has built up under pressure inside the battery case.... boom.
We already have the report of the Boom so there is no denying it happens, bury your head in the sand all you like it won't stop the laws of physics
T1 Terry
Yes could happen. Particularly if the battery was covered or enclosed in some way allowing the hydrogen gas generated by charging to be concentrated rather than venting away freely into the air. Combined with a loose connection to ignight the gas it's sure way to cause an explosion.
Have had this happen to me a few years ago, coming down the Tanami, stopped over night, in the morning Jeep Battery dead, got a jump start from a passer by, as the day went on, checked it out and found the battery was boiling it's head off. Had to get jump started again the next morning at Yeundemu and made it to Alice Springs with it. Went and bought a new battery and put in and all was fine.
Assumed that two cells had collapsed and shorted out.
It does happen, this was an original Mopar sealed Battery 4 years old.