New car.
Run factory oil till first change.
They USED to have running in additives in the first fill.
After that I always run Synthetics in ALL motors Transm, diffs etc.
Better. Proven. for all mechanical moving parts.
Jaahn said
09:27 AM Aug 26, 2017
Hey Jim
I am not sure that an advertisment from Super Cheap for a Shell oil product they sell is the definitive statement about what oil you should use. Is there a vested interest in that ? Perhaps ?
Jaahn
Hey Jim said
09:47 AM Aug 26, 2017
Jaahn wrote:
Hey Jim
I am not sure that an advertisment from Super Cheap for a Shell oil product they sell is the definitive statement about what oil you should use. Is there a vested interest in that ? Perhaps ?
Jaahn
Hi Jaahn,
Nope. I use and buy Penrite Enviro+ 5w-40w Full Synthetic in 10lt drums for my 200TDD from Super Cheap when and only on SALE.
Regards Jim
toglhot said
10:53 AM Aug 26, 2017
I don't remember ever reading or hearing about a motor being wrecked because they were using non synthetic motor oils, I wonder why???
Aus-Kiwi said
11:22 AM Aug 26, 2017
So many variables !! Go by Manufacturers instructions . Some engines have tight clearances where 0/30 visc oil. Mainly newer multi valve engines where flow through tight clearances is a must . Most new engines have oil temp heat exchangers .. Take it EASY for the first 2 or 3 minutes or klrs from cold or first start up . Oils are FAR FAR superior to 20 years ago !! The same with trans oil . Most modern gearboxs use a light oil due to needle bearings and better synchro's . Too thick the oil doesn't get to lube properly . The T5 in most older 5 speed Fords and Holden was s prime example . Old fashioned 80/90 trans oil just didn't work .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Saturday 26th of August 2017 11:27:27 AM
woolman said
12:16 PM Aug 26, 2017
Full synthetic oil does wreck seals on 2004 6.5 litre turbo diesel. "Mechanic" put full synthetic in our motor home. In next 4000 klm used 8 litres of oil. Through chev motor specialists contacted Penrite and advised absolutely not to use full synthetic as it shinks all seals in some older motors. Advice from Penrite was 2 oil flushes and use 10 -50 semi synthetic. Now top up 1 - 1 1/2 litres per 10,000 klm. Normal for chev turbos as oils is misted into turbo.
That is my experience so my advice is be aware and informed.
Neil
macka17 said
01:03 PM Aug 26, 2017
OK
I'll rephrase that a little.
I've used full Synth on ALL my rigs for last 30 yrs or so.
Bikes. A LOT Longer. (AGIP. SYNT. 2000) Back into the '80's.
I forgot about the coupla old Chevvy Yank Tank donk's. around.
98% of todays tugs being used,
will be under 20 yrs, and into the Synthetic range.
My last ZJ Fairlane ran Synth apart from in Slippy.
Hey Jim said
02:24 PM Aug 26, 2017
woolman wrote:
Full synthetic oil does wreck seals on 2004 6.5 litre turbo diesel. "Mechanic" put full synthetic in our motor home. In next 4000 klm used 8 litres of oil. Through chev motor specialists contacted Penrite and advised absolutely not to use full synthetic as it shinks all seals in some older motors. Advice from Penrite was 2 oil flushes and use 10 -50 semi synthetic. Now top up 1 - 1 1/2 litres per 10,000 klm. Normal for chev turbos as oils is misted into turbo. That is my experience so my advice is be aware and informed. Neil
Hi Neil,
I sold our 1997 GXL V6 petrol Toyota Parado with 455,000km on the clock in 2012.Kept every receipt I spent on it. The first guy took one look and brought it. Did not even take it for a test drive, as he did not have transport as his wheels clapped out. So I offered to drive it up to Swansea 110km up the road. That he said was the test drive. After running her on Mobile1 5W-30W Fully Synthetic for all that time.
Changed the oil every 5000km with oil filter. Never use a drop of oil in between changes. Only sold it cause we wanted more Torque for towing up hills, and our first van was in motion (Dec 2015).
I had the Transmission oil changed every 20,000km with again the receipts. It to used Fully Synthetic oils.
We brought our current 200TTD GX 2012 for both work and then the long haul through our retirement, last year.Towing both the van in 2016 and boat this year. Both to Exmouth WA return to Sydney 20,800km for the two trips plus tripping around while in WA.
Never users a drop of oil in between 5000km changes. 105,120km on the clock to date. I changed oils only because of cost, as the 200 drinks 9.3lts at each oil change.
The Transmission is (So they say is sealed for life.) The transmission holds 13 and a bit of oil. My guy can drain 8.5Lts only, of the total.
He says just bring it in every 12 months and he repeats the same over. He only uses Fully Synthetic in his business.
My tow truck justs hum's along up hill and down dale.
If you like your cars like I do, love'm back and give them the good oil.
Jim
Aus-Kiwi said
02:45 PM Aug 26, 2017
Yes the ole Chev 6.5 TD doesn't have large oil capacity either . Compared to most other Diesel engines of same size . Having an oil
Cooler helps . Synthetic oil does work . If it's used to break in a new built engine ? Chances are the rings won't bed in as good as mineral or running in oil .. I run mineral on new engines for atleast 4K ., So the lube, friction modifiers do work
!!
macka17 said
09:48 PM Aug 26, 2017
Jim.
Fit a Transm Cooler in line. with a tap at inlet side.
Go on net and peruse "Automatic fluid flushing."
Simple and easy. and DOES flush ALL old out. New in.
If you ask any real Auto tech.
They'll tell you there's NO such thing as a "Sealed for life" transm.
If you want a decent longevity out of it.
That's just a sales blurb to get the gullible in.
Aus-Kiwi said
01:42 AM Aug 27, 2017
Sealed for time of warranty
Jaahn said
07:55 AM Aug 27, 2017
woolman wrote:
Full synthetic oil does wreck seals on 2004 6.5 litre turbo diesel. "Mechanic" put full synthetic in our motor home. In next 4000 klm used 8 litres of oil. Through chev motor specialists contacted Penrite and advised absolutely not to use full synthetic as it shinks all seals in some older motors. Advice from Penrite was 2 oil flushes and use 10 -50 semi synthetic. Now top up 1 - 1 1/2 litres per 10,000 klm. Normal for chev turbos as oils is misted into turbo. That is my experience so my advice is be aware and informed. Neil
Hi
You are not the first person that I have heard to have this happen with an older motor. It was quite commonly said in the past about synthetic oil. So despite Super Cheap and Shell saying it does not cause the seals to leak I would be wary putting it into an older motor of any type. Probably not the oil itself but the additives cause it.
Toglhot wrote; I don't remember ever reading or hearing about a motor being wrecked because they were using non synthetic motor oils, I wonder why???
Hmmm , good point.
Jaahn
macka17 said
09:42 AM Aug 27, 2017
Could be the wider tolerances between moving surfaces
along with the lower rev's and more horsepower for same loadings.
Higher revving tighter . Motorbike. car..racing engines have used Synth for decades.
Modern D.I engines tend to NEED Synth for the finer tolerances. and ceramic liners in some.
As said above. Quite a few Minerals won't go through the modern engine effectively.
I think you'll find a record of some MODERN, and performance engines failing. Blowing pistons, overheating etc. through using older Mineral oils , that can't get round the oilways, shells etc.
OLD donk;s are "sloppy" inside. Some would frighten you. Even when new.
Modern ones are tighter tolerances. NEED finer, more efficient lubricity (Slippiness). With higher shear points,To do same job.
I haven't pulled an engine of my own down. for over 30 yrs.
Apart from a 230 hp Head. to shave. and exch Injectors in my yacht.
25 yr old engine (Yanmar)
(whoops 30hp) -- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 27th of August 2017 09:47:41 AM
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 27th of August 2017 09:49:33 AM
swamp said
08:43 AM Aug 28, 2017
hi
Super crap advertising gotta luv it ..
Quality synthetic has good additive packages .
Only a few larger internationals have good formula`s for synthetic . There is a big difference between the good and the bad . The definition of syn oil has been watered down over the years by some players. Stay away from these companies .
swamp said
09:05 AM Aug 28, 2017
hi
In regards to the 10-30 w oil people keep talking about . The reason why its commonly used is the alternate 10-40w is difficult to engineer . The 10-30w is looked as an economy oil in more ways than one. Because its a 10-30 it suffers in hot weather and is limited that's why u find it as a synthetic . To be heat resistant . It also returns 1% better economy ,big deal !!!
10/40w use to fail and the oil use to degrade very quick and loose its viscosity rating easily in the 1980`s . Around 2005 - 2010 its making a come back .
Jap engines have always had tight clearances and yes even the humble v8 also . The main issue was machining quality/inconsistency that occurred on the v8`s .
Aus-Kiwi said
09:26 AM Aug 28, 2017
Most engines fail with little or no servicing !! The big thing to do is CHANGE the oil . Often annoyes me when I hear rather wealthy people say . Why should I pay for a service ? In two years I won't own it !! So some poor hard working family is going to buy it !!
macka17 said
10:45 AM Aug 28, 2017
When buying "Synthetic" oils. Buy FULL synthetic oils ONLY.
Synth Modified\Fortified, etc are usually BASIC and normally lower grade. MINERAL oils, with a coupla Synth "Fortifiers" to make the "name" legal. Only a couple are worth using.
As far as mfg's go. I wouldn't\don't, touch anybody but Castrol. Shell. Caltex. and just recently bought a 10l of NULON to try.
PS. Hey Jim.
If you find an OIL DEPOT that are agents for your oil.
You'll get the 20ltr drums there for around what you paying for 15l ap present.
I buy my Castrol Prof Magnatec for $170 a drum.
-- Edited by macka17 on Monday 28th of August 2017 10:50:31 AM
RustyD said
08:58 PM Aug 28, 2017
Just remember. Oils ain't Oils.
boab said
01:27 PM Aug 29, 2017
Now that the Shell science lab has taught us a lesson or two about the process behind conventional and synthetic motor oil, its time to ask the hard questions and put the most common myths surrounding synthetic motor oil to the test. We enlisted the help of Christopher Hayek, Pennzoil and Quaker States global brand director.
Top Five Synthetic Oil Myths Debunked:
Myth: Synthetic oil is fake.
Busted! Synthetic oil is derived from natural base oil.
Hayek: Just the word synthetic and the connotation it has with consumers leads them to believe that synthetic oil is a non-natural, man-made product. For example, people look at conventional oil like wool and synthetic oil like polyester. The truth is, synthetic oil is a natural product derived from base oil.
Myth: Using synthetic oil means changing the oil less often.
Busted! While its one purpose of synthetic oil, be careful going longer between oil changes.
Hayek: Because car manufacturers have tested and tailored their engine technology around how the engine needs to perform, its not as easy as using synthetic oil and ignoring the manufacturers recommendations.
Falender: All automotive manufacturers have directions written out as to what the consumer should be doing. Its important that consumers follow the manufacturers instructions.
Myth: Using synthetic oil means better fuel economy.
Busted! Many factors effect fuel economy.
Hayek: Some people think that using synthetic oil means better fuel economy because its thinner oil. That is not true. The fact is when you look at 5W-20 conventional oil and 5W-20 synthetic oil, they have very similar viscosity levels. Fuel economy is derived more from changing viscosity grades than it is from switching from a conventional to synthetic motor oil.
Falender: A lot of things influence fuel economy, but one of the main things is a clean engine. When you go to buy a new car, there is a sticker on the window that tells you the miles per gallon that specific car is expected to get. What a lot of people dont realize is that mile per gallon estimate is for a perfectly clean engine. The minute you drive off the lot with low-quality motor oil, your engine starts to get dirty, and you begin losing fuel mileage. While synthetic oil doesnt always mean better fuel economy, it can lead to a cleaner engine, which results in more miles for your money.
Myth: All synthetic oil is better than conventional oil.
Busted! Not all oils are created equal.
Hayek: Just because an oil is synthetic doesnt automatically mean its better than all other conventional oils.
Falender: Synthetics tend to get lumped together. Dont assume that every synthetic does the same thing.
Myth: Synthetic oil is always thinner.
Busted! Not always, just because its synthetic oil doesnt mean its thinner.
Hayek: The truth is 5W-20 conventional or synthetic oil are banded in certain areas to make them 5W-20 oil. Its a generalization that all synthetics are thinner oils.
After the trip to the lab and discussing the myths surrounding synthetic oils, you may be wondering, Is synthetic oil really worth it for my vehicle? The answer is, it depends on your car.
First, check with your cars manufacturer via your owners manual. Traditionally, good synthetic motor oil like Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology will pay for itself by protecting the investment youve made
macka17 said
08:04 PM Aug 30, 2017
Before these modern High tech diesels and petrol motors came out.
I was in Construction. Oils came in 44gal drums.
(Shell Rotella 30 grade. Petrol and diesel)
I changed mine regularly. (5ooo miles.)
Drained sump. Replaced plug.
Poured in 4 (2 to 3ltrs) in cars. 15\20 grade Hydraulic oil.
Ran motor for 2 min's or so.
Pulled plug. left sump drain overnight.
Next morn. Filter change. Plug in.Fresh oil and do next 5 thou.(miles)
Even my diesels stayed NOT full black and petrols were as clean out as it was when poured in.
Zephyr 6. Zodiacs and 2\2.2 ltr Land Rover diesels.
Basically Synth oils help more with heavy loads on engine. Plus the temp's.
Higher shear strength. more lubricity. Longer lasting working surfaces.
There have been a lot of physical comparisons of both over the yrs.
Big Mal said
04:51 PM Aug 31, 2017
Why would you change your oil nowadays at 5K, if using a good quality syn oil in a modern engine, hell thats a lot of money tipped out, I do 10K min and if I can't change it I at least change the filter, my engines have lasted to 300K withgout failing, just wasting money changing at 5K, well unless it takes you 12mths to do it.
My Jeeps with Merc auto's had sealed for life or 100,000km service, utter BS I thought changed mine every 30-40K, when it needed a pull down for an electrical fault the tranny mechanic reckoned he had never seen a Merc box so good at 120,000km..............MB later dropped their service to something like 50,000k because of fails.....The Colorado has a 150,000km change again mine gets 30,000k and since it's never been to a dealer runs like a dream for the last 130,000km.............5W40 used instead of 30 still sounds like a tractor though even with an italian engine.
My old Landrover needed a new donk so it got the oil that was changed out of the Ford, recycled it quite well out the exhaust.
Hi all,
I was sent this today by Super Cheap Auto today.
Run factory oil till first change.
They USED to have running in additives in the first fill.
After that I always run Synthetics in ALL motors Transm, diffs etc.
Better. Proven. for all mechanical moving parts.
Hey Jim
I am not sure that an advertisment from Super Cheap for a Shell oil product they sell is the definitive statement about what oil you should use. Is there a vested interest in that ? Perhaps ?
Jaahn
Hi Jaahn,
Nope. I use and buy Penrite Enviro+ 5w-40w Full Synthetic in 10lt drums for my 200TDD from Super Cheap when and only on SALE.
Regards Jim
So many variables !! Go by Manufacturers instructions . Some engines have tight clearances where 0/30 visc oil. Mainly newer multi valve engines where flow through tight clearances is a must . Most new engines have oil temp heat exchangers .. Take it EASY for the first 2 or 3 minutes or klrs from cold or first start up . Oils are FAR FAR superior to 20 years ago !! The same with trans oil . Most modern gearboxs use a light oil due to needle bearings and better synchro's . Too thick the oil doesn't get to lube properly . The T5 in most older 5 speed Fords and Holden was s prime example . Old fashioned 80/90 trans oil just didn't work .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Saturday 26th of August 2017 11:27:27 AM
I'll rephrase that a little.
I've used full Synth on ALL my rigs for last 30 yrs or so.
Bikes. A LOT Longer. (AGIP. SYNT. 2000) Back into the '80's.
I forgot about the coupla old Chevvy Yank Tank donk's. around.
98% of todays tugs being used,
will be under 20 yrs, and into the Synthetic range.
My last ZJ Fairlane ran Synth apart from in Slippy.
Hi Neil,
I sold our 1997 GXL V6 petrol Toyota Parado with 455,000km on the clock in 2012.Kept every receipt I spent on it. The first guy took one look and brought it. Did not even take it for a test drive, as he did not have transport as his wheels clapped out. So I offered to drive it up to Swansea 110km up the road. That he said was the test drive. After running her on Mobile1 5W-30W Fully Synthetic for all that time.
Changed the oil every 5000km with oil filter. Never use a drop of oil in between changes. Only sold it cause we wanted more Torque for towing up hills, and our first van was in motion (Dec 2015).
I had the Transmission oil changed every 20,000km with again the receipts. It to used Fully Synthetic oils.
We brought our current 200TTD GX 2012 for both work and then the long haul through our retirement, last year.Towing both the van in 2016 and boat this year. Both to Exmouth WA return to Sydney 20,800km for the two trips plus tripping around while in WA.
Never users a drop of oil in between 5000km changes. 105,120km on the clock to date. I changed oils only because of cost, as the 200 drinks 9.3lts at each oil change.
The Transmission is (So they say is sealed for life.) The transmission holds 13 and a bit of oil. My guy can drain 8.5Lts only, of the total.
He says just bring it in every 12 months and he repeats the same over. He only uses Fully Synthetic in his business.
My tow truck justs hum's along up hill and down dale.
If you like your cars like I do, love'm back and give them the good oil.
Jim
Fit a Transm Cooler in line. with a tap at inlet side.
Go on net and peruse "Automatic fluid flushing."
Simple and easy. and DOES flush ALL old out. New in.
If you ask any real Auto tech.
They'll tell you there's NO such thing as a "Sealed for life" transm.
If you want a decent longevity out of it.
That's just a sales blurb to get the gullible in.
Hi
You are not the first person that I have heard to have this happen with an older motor. It was quite commonly said in the past about synthetic oil. So despite Super Cheap and Shell saying it does not cause the seals to leak I would be wary putting it into an older motor of any type. Probably not the oil itself but the additives cause it.
Toglhot wrote; I don't remember ever reading or hearing about a motor being wrecked because they were using non synthetic motor oils, I wonder why???
Hmmm , good point.
Jaahn
Could be the wider tolerances between moving surfaces
along with the lower rev's and more horsepower for same loadings.
Higher revving tighter . Motorbike. car..racing engines have used Synth for decades.
Modern D.I engines tend to NEED Synth for the finer tolerances. and ceramic liners in some.
As said above. Quite a few Minerals won't go through the modern engine effectively.
I think you'll find a record of some MODERN, and performance engines failing.
Blowing pistons, overheating etc. through using older Mineral oils ,
that can't get round the oilways, shells etc.
OLD donk;s are "sloppy" inside. Some would frighten you. Even when new.
Modern ones are tighter tolerances. NEED finer, more efficient lubricity
(Slippiness). With higher shear points,To do same job.
I haven't pulled an engine of my own down. for over 30 yrs.
Apart from a 230 hp Head. to shave. and exch Injectors in my yacht.
25 yr old engine (Yanmar)
(whoops 30hp)
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 27th of August 2017 09:47:41 AM
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 27th of August 2017 09:49:33 AM
Super crap advertising gotta luv it ..
Quality synthetic has good additive packages .
Only a few larger internationals have good formula`s for synthetic . There is a big difference between the good and the bad . The definition of syn oil has been watered down over the years by some players. Stay away from these companies .
In regards to the 10-30 w oil people keep talking about . The reason why its commonly used is the alternate 10-40w is difficult to engineer . The 10-30w is looked as an economy oil in more ways than one. Because its a 10-30 it suffers in hot weather and is limited that's why u find it as a synthetic . To be heat resistant . It also returns 1% better economy ,big deal !!!
10/40w use to fail and the oil use to degrade very quick and loose its viscosity rating easily in the 1980`s . Around 2005 - 2010 its making a come back .
Jap engines have always had tight clearances and yes even the humble v8 also . The main issue was machining quality/inconsistency that occurred on the v8`s .
When buying "Synthetic" oils.
Buy FULL synthetic oils ONLY.
Synth Modified\Fortified, etc are usually BASIC and normally lower grade. MINERAL oils,
with a coupla Synth "Fortifiers" to make the "name" legal.
Only a couple are worth using.
As far as mfg's go.
I wouldn't\don't, touch anybody but Castrol. Shell. Caltex.
and just recently bought a 10l of NULON to try.
PS. Hey Jim.
If you find an OIL DEPOT that are agents for your oil.
You'll get the 20ltr drums there for around what you paying for 15l ap present.
I buy my Castrol Prof Magnatec for $170 a drum.
-- Edited by macka17 on Monday 28th of August 2017 10:50:31 AM
Top Five Synthetic Oil Myths Debunked:
Myth: Synthetic oil is fake.
Busted! Synthetic oil is derived from natural base oil.
Hayek: Just the word synthetic and the connotation it has with consumers leads them to believe that synthetic oil is a non-natural, man-made product. For example, people look at conventional oil like wool and synthetic oil like polyester. The truth is, synthetic oil is a natural product derived from base oil.
Myth: Using synthetic oil means changing the oil less often.
Busted! While its one purpose of synthetic oil, be careful going longer between oil changes.
Hayek: Because car manufacturers have tested and tailored their engine technology around how the engine needs to perform, its not as easy as using synthetic oil and ignoring the manufacturers recommendations.
Falender: All automotive manufacturers have directions written out as to what the consumer should be doing. Its important that consumers follow the manufacturers instructions.
Myth: Using synthetic oil means better fuel economy.
Busted! Many factors effect fuel economy.
Hayek: Some people think that using synthetic oil means better fuel economy because its thinner oil. That is not true. The fact is when you look at 5W-20 conventional oil and 5W-20 synthetic oil, they have very similar viscosity levels. Fuel economy is derived more from changing viscosity grades than it is from switching from a conventional to synthetic motor oil.
Falender: A lot of things influence fuel economy, but one of the main things is a clean engine. When you go to buy a new car, there is a sticker on the window that tells you the miles per gallon that specific car is expected to get. What a lot of people dont realize is that mile per gallon estimate is for a perfectly clean engine. The minute you drive off the lot with low-quality motor oil, your engine starts to get dirty, and you begin losing fuel mileage. While synthetic oil doesnt always mean better fuel economy, it can lead to a cleaner engine, which results in more miles for your money.
Myth: All synthetic oil is better than conventional oil.
Busted! Not all oils are created equal.
Hayek: Just because an oil is synthetic doesnt automatically mean its better than all other conventional oils.
Falender: Synthetics tend to get lumped together. Dont assume that every synthetic does the same thing.
Myth: Synthetic oil is always thinner.
Busted! Not always, just because its synthetic oil doesnt mean its thinner.
Hayek: The truth is 5W-20 conventional or synthetic oil are banded in certain areas to make them 5W-20 oil. Its a generalization that all synthetics are thinner oils.
After the trip to the lab and discussing the myths surrounding synthetic oils, you may be wondering, Is synthetic oil really worth it for my vehicle? The answer is, it depends on your car.
First, check with your cars manufacturer via your owners manual. Traditionally, good synthetic motor oil like Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus Technology will pay for itself by protecting the investment youve made
I was in Construction. Oils came in 44gal drums.
(Shell Rotella 30 grade. Petrol and diesel)
I changed mine regularly. (5ooo miles.)
Drained sump. Replaced plug.
Poured in 4 (2 to 3ltrs) in cars. 15\20 grade Hydraulic oil.
Ran motor for 2 min's or so.
Pulled plug. left sump drain overnight.
Next morn. Filter change. Plug in.Fresh oil and do next 5 thou.(miles)
Even my diesels stayed NOT full black and petrols were as clean out as it was when poured in.
Zephyr 6. Zodiacs and 2\2.2 ltr Land Rover diesels.
Basically Synth oils help more with heavy loads on engine. Plus the temp's.
Higher shear strength. more lubricity. Longer lasting working surfaces.
There have been a lot of physical comparisons of both over the yrs.
My Jeeps with Merc auto's had sealed for life or 100,000km service, utter BS I thought changed mine every 30-40K, when it needed a pull down for an electrical fault the tranny mechanic reckoned he had never seen a Merc box so good at 120,000km..............MB later dropped their service to something like 50,000k because of fails.....The Colorado has a 150,000km change again mine gets 30,000k and since it's never been to a dealer runs like a dream for the last 130,000km.............5W40 used instead of 30 still sounds like a tractor though even with an italian engine.
My old Landrover needed a new donk so it got the oil that was changed out of the Ford, recycled it quite well out the exhaust.