i have a nissan patrol 4.2lt td gvm 3.4000 kg problem is not quite fitted out yet and it is 3.1200 kg so this means after the van goes on around 170 ball weight and the bride gets in im in a real pick ell.the tray on the back is all steal with steal draws under im thinking that this is my biggest problem . i have had quote around 5 to 5.5 thousand to beef it up to 3.950 kg witch will solve all my problems but this is a lot of money i don't really want to spend.i have put 13 springs on the rear plus air bags as i used to have a slide on camper witch weighed around a ton wet so the ute can handle the load plus more but that doesn't make it legal .i need to have the upgrade plate to make it legal as i said very expensive also all the money i have spent on air bags and springs is now a waste as they will not reconise them if i go for the upgrade . another option maybe is to take off the steal tray and replace it with a lighter one this maybe the way to go for me but its a pain in the butt as i have set it all up .anyway just remember when you go to buy a new caravan to take a good look at your tug i thought i would have no problems toeing a small 16 foot van with my nissan turns out the hole time i was carting around my old slide on i was over weight by about 700kg even with all my springs and air bags.
your thoughts ...... the bride said to me yesterday whats wrong i said .....she has to loose some weight .....i was referring to the tug .....im now sleeping in the caravan beside the house .....cheers griffo
-- Edited by griffo and kezz on Thursday 14th of September 2017 02:03:07 PM
-- Edited by griffo and kezz on Thursday 14th of September 2017 02:11:03 PM
JackoFJR said
02:11 PM Sep 14, 2017
I afraid griffo , if you want to be legal you need to loose a significant amount of weight or get the GVM upgrade , probably both .
KJB said
02:43 PM Sep 14, 2017
A simple aluminium tray will probably overcome your problems. There should be some used trays available. Sell your current tray . Change over cost should not be all that high. Be best to unbolt your steel tray and weigh it and also find out what aluminium trays weigh before you start to make sure it is the right thing to do.. You also have to remember that even the extra spring leaves and air bags etc. all add extra weight .
KB
griffo and kezz said
03:23 PM Sep 14, 2017
yes kjb i think that maybe the way to go i know the back tray looks like it weighs more than a slate top pool table but i only have to gain around 200 kg im thinking to be in my comfort zone more would be better .
-- Edited by griffo and kezz on Thursday 14th of September 2017 03:44:44 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
02:51 PM Sep 16, 2017
Glen,
I too would support the others in suggesting a lighter tray & what you carry. My Nissan wagon had a GVM of 3040Kg & I found that with a "light" camping trip with the van on the back that I was 100Kg over weight. I fitted air bags to the rear suspension last year after I bought the van. A Townsville engineer said that was adequate to warrant the GVM to be increased by a maximum of 10%. So now I watch what I carry!
One thing I'd like to know is why Nissans are rated to carry less than equivalent Toyotas when Nissan bearings & axles are heavier.
Note - Jayco caravan mag wheels have a maximum rating of 1000Kg per wheel. I haven't found what the Nissan mags (on my car) are rated at, although yours appear to Sunrasia steels. I don't know the rating of the Nissan axles/bearings - all things that have to be taken into account when carrying large loads.
I now look at 4WDs with massive amounts of bar work & boats on top a little differently to what I used to. Of course the magazines show all the things you need & need to carry when you're on your 4WD adventure but you're the one who may be fined or worse have your car's insurance cancelled if you have an accident!
All the best,
Warren
macka17 said
07:09 PM Sep 16, 2017
Easy Warren.
Toyota's are full of crap.
Regarding both what their vehicles actually are. or capable of.
and the "reliabilty". Ha, Of them.
Stick with the Nissan and Isuzu. with Mitzi next.
The'd have best reliability records of all of them. Ford included.
Just go back in Ute and 4wd MAg's.
Ignore all the well paid for bull**** ad's on Toyota.
and get the real reviews.
I think it was last. or the prev yr.
Toyota had MORE Recalls that yr. than the TOTAL build No,
OR sales of. ALL their veh's combined in AUst..
Bass said
06:44 PM Sep 18, 2017
Cannot help myself.. In 2015 3 Dmax's and 1 105 series went to the cape, some off road campers some roof tops. NOW 2 200 series and 2 twin cab landcruisers.
Cheers Bass.
PTnLinda said
11:50 PM Sep 20, 2017
Upgrading your GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass)
I though it appropriate to tell you of my findings following my research into upgrading the GVM on my 2017 Ford Ranger. The Ranger was purchased in June whilst on a trip to Brisbane for the Caravan and Camping show where we also ordered a 186 OptionRV Traction Caravan. The Ranger remains in Brisbane unregistered till we return in December for Xmas when we will drive it home to Darwin. Whilst in Brisbane the vehicle has had an ARB Canopy and Long Range Tank fitted. A Snorkel, Drawer system as well as Bull Bar, Side Rails and steps are on order and still to be fitted before we drive it home.
In view of the current discussions regarding GVM & GCM (Gross Combination Mass) I started to see that we were running into problems with weight issues with all the accessories being fitted to the vehicle if we were going to be able to tow our new van legally.
Nearly all the Suspension Manufacturers do a GVM Upgrade for the Ranger increasing the GVM from 3200kgs to either 3330kgs or 3500kgs but I couldnt find anyone that also increased the GCM. I really couldnt see any benefit in doing the GVM upgrade as it didnt help my towing situation and it looked like I would just have to take my chances and tow illegally.
Then I stumbled upon Lovells springs who do the GVM upgrade to 3500kgs. The difference with Lovells upgrade over the other s offered is that Lovells is a SSM (Second Stage of Manufacture) approved upgrade.
So using the Lovells upgrade on the Ranger this is what you achieve.
Upgrade your Ford Ranger GVM with a Lovells second stage of manufacturer (SSM) approved GVM upgrade. Currently Lovells are the only manufacturer with SSM federal approval to upgrade the Ford Ranger GVM from 3200kg to 3500kg that will deem the BTC (Braked Towing Capacity) to remain at OE capacity. Not only does a Lovells GVM upgrade retain OE BTC (so it will not de-rate your Braked Towing Capacity like other GVM upgrades do) but it legally nominates a new GCM which is recognised federally. The Lovells GVM upgrade calculates the GCM by the correct method GVM plus BTC = GCM. See below for before & after GVM upgrades figures.
Before Lovells GVM Upgrade
GVM 3200kg
Braked Towing Capacity - 3500kg
GCM 6000kg. Ford rate the GCM to 6000kg and not 6700kg
For further information I have attached below information on how a Second Stage of Manufacture is obtained.
Second Stage of Manufacture (SSM) for GVM upgrade approval is attained by the suspension manufacturer (Lovells) verifying to the Federal body known as the Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS), specifically the Vehicle Safety Standards (VSS) branch of DOTARS that the suspension modification complies with the Australian Design Rules (ADR). The ADRs affected by a GVM upgrade is substaintial and this process can be difficult, costly and slow for the suspension manufacturer.
Lovells must supply comprehensive testing reports supplied by an authorised testing laboratory which show that the brakes & vehicle stability are able to with stand and perform safely with the additional weights. This testing procedure is not a basic brake test; it is an extensive highly complicated test with computer monitoring equipment and is normally carried out on an air field strip. Not only this but laboratory testing of all other vehicle factors that are affected by the ADRs need to be completed for example hydraulic swaybar operation (KDSS) and electronic stability control (ESP).
The VSS branch of DOTARS will review the documentation and vehicle apparutus to confirm that all is above board and correct. Once approved a federal legal certificate is issued to Lovells to allow the manufacture and supply chain for that specific build of vehicle.
In view of the above I now plan to proceed with the Lovells GVM upgrade as it essentially increases our Rangers GVM to 3500kgs and GCM to 7000kgs so I can tow our new OptionRV Legally.
I have no affiliation with Lovells what so ever but thought their product should be bought to the attention of caravan owners out there as I know I was having trouble getting our outfit to fit within the original GCM of 6000gks for the Ranger.
iana said
12:01 AM Sep 21, 2017
J--us what's Macka going to say about this !!!
Info could come in handy. Thanks
macka17 said
10:41 AM Sep 21, 2017
Chuckle.....
ALL Macka's going to say about this IS...
No matter WHAT you do th these ""UTE'S"". They are still only utes.
Beef up suspensions and rolling gear Yep Fine. BUT. Increasing Carrying. AND Towing. Well. We'll see.
BUT. How many utes have you read of and seen. With BENT and Cracked chassis rails.
Specially the Fords in the mines. (My kids work there)
They ALL still only designed and built for a certain level of stress. You overstress. YOU will suffer consequenses. Eventually.
Truly. None are really much over a 2.5 ton tow veh MAX.... With SAFELY.
Just hope they have braking systems compatable to stopping those extra weights is all I can say.
Wouldn't want one behind me on a looong. Steep, Downhill, thank you.
The only over 2.5 ton chassis MFG'd off the line, in this country. In our sizes of veh's. Would be the Troopie. Patrol and Landcruisers. ALl the others. are Really. 2.5 tonish MAX. Again. Safely. With paper figures added for sales of.
OK. Happy now Ian. (Smile)
-- Edited by macka17 on Thursday 21st of September 2017 10:44:14 AM
Craig1 said
08:55 PM Sep 23, 2017
I think I see that you are not yet registered from new. Almost certain that lovells can only do new/unregistered to fully comply with all the stuff. cheers and good luck Craig
montie said
07:46 AM Sep 26, 2017
If you load tug to maximum capacity of 3500kg inc ball transfer of say 350kg you cannot legally achieve the 7000kg GCM.
Tug fully laden inc ball transfer........3500kg
Van fully laden after ball transfer......3150kg assuming a 350kg ball weight.
Max legal allowable weight for the combination is therefore 6650kg. regardless of what Lovells have told you.
The measured weight of your combination must not legally exceed the lesser of:
1) The tug manufacturers (or Lovells) rating as published for GCM
2) GVM plus GTM. (GVM plus ATM minus Ball weight)
Montie
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 26th of September 2017 07:51:50 AM
JackoFJR said
08:58 AM Sep 26, 2017
Craig1 wrote:
I think I see that you are not yet registered from new. Almost certain that lovells can only do new/unregistered to fully comply with all the stuff. cheers and good luck Craig
Lovells can do a GVM upgrade after rego , mate has just had his 12 month old Hilux done .
macka17 said
08:59 AM Sep 26, 2017
That's a start Monty.
I'd love to have a camera under it watching the suspension areas on Corrugated. Rough roads.
All that extra on a 2.5ton BASE CHASSIS build.
It won't be the first to flex. Bend. or crack it's rails.
They are one that does it too. Ask the mines.
People don't realise how many, Utes especially
park up with bent. Cracked. Chassis
through overloading and rough roads, tracks.
Extra lift underneath. with maybe a bit of gusseting.
Does NOT, a really stronger chassis make.
For too long anyway.
PTnLinda said
07:41 PM Sep 27, 2017
montie wrote:
If you load tug to maximum capacity of 3500kg inc ball transfer of say 350kg you cannot legally achieve the 7000kg GCM.
Tug fully laden inc ball transfer........3500kg
Van fully laden after ball transfer......3150kg assuming a 350kg ball weight.
Max legal allowable weight for the combination is therefore 6650kg. regardless of what Lovells have told you.
The measured weight of your combination must not legally exceed the lesser of:
1) The tug manufacturers (or Lovells) rating as published for GCM
2) GVM plus GTM. (GVM plus ATM minus Ball weight)
Montie
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 26th of September 2017 07:51:50 AM
Thanks Montie yes I agree. Still much better than the standard 6000kg's without the Lovell's GVM Upgrade
i have a nissan patrol 4.2lt td gvm 3.4000 kg problem is not quite fitted out yet and it is 3.1200 kg so this means after the van goes on around 170 ball weight and the bride gets in im in a real pick ell.the tray on the back is all steal with steal draws under im thinking that this is my biggest problem . i have had quote around 5 to 5.5 thousand to beef it up to 3.950 kg witch will solve all my problems but this is a lot of money i don't really want to spend.i have put 13 springs on the rear plus air bags as i used to have a slide on camper witch weighed around a ton wet so the ute can handle the load plus more but that doesn't make it legal .i need to have the upgrade plate to make it legal as i said very expensive also all the money i have spent on air bags and springs is now a waste as they will not reconise them if i go for the upgrade . another option maybe is to take off the steal tray and replace it with a lighter one this maybe the way to go for me but its a pain in the butt as i have set it all up .anyway just remember when you go to buy a new caravan to take a good look at your tug i thought i would have no problems toeing a small 16 foot van with my nissan turns out the hole time i was carting around my old slide on i was over weight by about 700kg even with all my springs and air bags.
your thoughts ...... the bride said to me yesterday whats wrong i said .....she has to loose some weight .....i was referring to the tug .....im now sleeping in the caravan beside the house .....cheers griffo
-- Edited by griffo and kezz on Thursday 14th of September 2017 02:03:07 PM
-- Edited by griffo and kezz on Thursday 14th of September 2017 02:11:03 PM
A simple aluminium tray will probably overcome your problems. There should be some used trays available. Sell your current tray . Change over cost should not be all that high. Be best to unbolt your steel tray and weigh it and also find out what aluminium trays weigh before you start to make sure it is the right thing to do.. You also have to remember that even the extra spring leaves and air bags etc. all add extra weight .
KB
yes kjb i think that maybe the way to go i know the back tray looks like it weighs more than a slate top pool table but i only have to gain around 200 kg im thinking to be in my comfort zone more would be better .
-- Edited by griffo and kezz on Thursday 14th of September 2017 03:44:44 PM
I too would support the others in suggesting a lighter tray & what you carry. My Nissan wagon had a GVM of 3040Kg & I found that with a "light" camping trip with the van on the back that I was 100Kg over weight. I fitted air bags to the rear suspension last year after I bought the van. A Townsville engineer said that was adequate to warrant the GVM to be increased by a maximum of 10%. So now I watch what I carry!
One thing I'd like to know is why Nissans are rated to carry less than equivalent Toyotas when Nissan bearings & axles are heavier.
Note - Jayco caravan mag wheels have a maximum rating of 1000Kg per wheel. I haven't found what the Nissan mags (on my car) are rated at, although yours appear to Sunrasia steels. I don't know the rating of the Nissan axles/bearings - all things that have to be taken into account when carrying large loads.
I now look at 4WDs with massive amounts of bar work & boats on top a little differently to what I used to. Of course the magazines show all the things you need & need to carry when you're on your 4WD adventure but you're the one who may be fined or worse have your car's insurance cancelled if you have an accident!
All the best,
Warren
Toyota's are full of crap.
Regarding both what their vehicles actually are. or capable of.
and the "reliabilty". Ha, Of them.
Stick with the Nissan and Isuzu. with Mitzi next.
The'd have best reliability records of all of them. Ford included.
Just go back in Ute and 4wd MAg's.
Ignore all the well paid for bull**** ad's on Toyota.
and get the real reviews.
I think it was last. or the prev yr.
Toyota had MORE Recalls that yr. than the TOTAL build No,
OR sales of. ALL their veh's combined in AUst..
Cheers Bass.
I though it appropriate to tell you of my findings following my research into upgrading the GVM on my 2017 Ford Ranger. The Ranger was purchased in June whilst on a trip to Brisbane for the Caravan and Camping show where we also ordered a 186 OptionRV Traction Caravan. The Ranger remains in Brisbane unregistered till we return in December for Xmas when we will drive it home to Darwin. Whilst in Brisbane the vehicle has had an ARB Canopy and Long Range Tank fitted. A Snorkel, Drawer system as well as Bull Bar, Side Rails and steps are on order and still to be fitted before we drive it home.
In view of the current discussions regarding GVM & GCM (Gross Combination Mass) I started to see that we were running into problems with weight issues with all the accessories being fitted to the vehicle if we were going to be able to tow our new van legally.
Nearly all the Suspension Manufacturers do a GVM Upgrade for the Ranger increasing the GVM from 3200kgs to either 3330kgs or 3500kgs but I couldnt find anyone that also increased the GCM. I really couldnt see any benefit in doing the GVM upgrade as it didnt help my towing situation and it looked like I would just have to take my chances and tow illegally.
Then I stumbled upon Lovells springs who do the GVM upgrade to 3500kgs. The difference with Lovells upgrade over the other s offered is that Lovells is a SSM (Second Stage of Manufacture) approved upgrade.
So using the Lovells upgrade on the Ranger this is what you achieve.
Upgrade your Ford Ranger GVM with a Lovells second stage of manufacturer (SSM) approved GVM upgrade. Currently Lovells are the only manufacturer with SSM federal approval to upgrade the Ford Ranger GVM from 3200kg to 3500kg that will deem the BTC (Braked Towing Capacity) to remain at OE capacity. Not only does a Lovells GVM upgrade retain OE BTC (so it will not de-rate your Braked Towing Capacity like other GVM upgrades do) but it legally nominates a new GCM which is recognised federally. The Lovells GVM upgrade calculates the GCM by the correct method GVM plus BTC = GCM. See below for before & after GVM upgrades figures.
Before Lovells GVM Upgrade
GVM 3200kg
Braked Towing Capacity - 3500kg
GCM 6000kg. Ford rate the GCM to 6000kg and not 6700kg
After Lovells GVM Upgrade
GVM 3500kg
Braked Towing Capacity - 3500kg
GCM 7000kg
For further information I have attached below information on how a Second Stage of Manufacture is obtained.
Second Stage of Manufacture (SSM) for GVM upgrade approval is attained by the suspension manufacturer (Lovells) verifying to the Federal body known as the Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS), specifically the Vehicle Safety Standards (VSS) branch of DOTARS that the suspension modification complies with the Australian Design Rules (ADR). The ADRs affected by a GVM upgrade is substaintial and this process can be difficult, costly and slow for the suspension manufacturer.
Lovells must supply comprehensive testing reports supplied by an authorised testing laboratory which show that the brakes & vehicle stability are able to with stand and perform safely with the additional weights. This testing procedure is not a basic brake test; it is an extensive highly complicated test with computer monitoring equipment and is normally carried out on an air field strip. Not only this but laboratory testing of all other vehicle factors that are affected by the ADRs need to be completed for example hydraulic swaybar operation (KDSS) and electronic stability control (ESP).
The VSS branch of DOTARS will review the documentation and vehicle apparutus to confirm that all is above board and correct. Once approved a federal legal certificate is issued to Lovells to allow the manufacture and supply chain for that specific build of vehicle.
In view of the above I now plan to proceed with the Lovells GVM upgrade as it essentially increases our Rangers GVM to 3500kgs and GCM to 7000kgs so I can tow our new OptionRV Legally.
I have no affiliation with Lovells what so ever but thought their product should be bought to the attention of caravan owners out there as I know I was having trouble getting our outfit to fit within the original GCM of 6000gks for the Ranger.
Info could come in handy. Thanks
Chuckle.....
ALL Macka's going to say about this IS...
No matter WHAT you do th these ""UTE'S"".
They are still only utes.
Beef up suspensions and rolling gear Yep Fine.
BUT. Increasing Carrying. AND Towing. Well. We'll see.
BUT. How many utes have you read of and seen.
With BENT and Cracked chassis rails.
Specially the Fords in the mines. (My kids work there)
They ALL still only designed and built for a certain level of stress.
You overstress.
YOU will suffer consequenses. Eventually.
Truly. None are really much over a 2.5 ton tow veh MAX.... With SAFELY.
Just hope they have braking systems compatable to stopping those extra weights is all I can say.
Wouldn't want one behind me on a looong. Steep, Downhill, thank you.
The only over 2.5 ton chassis MFG'd off the line, in this country. In our sizes of veh's.
Would be the Troopie. Patrol and Landcruisers.
ALl the others. are Really. 2.5 tonish MAX. Again. Safely.
With paper figures added for sales of.
OK. Happy now Ian. (Smile)
-- Edited by macka17 on Thursday 21st of September 2017 10:44:14 AM
If you load tug to maximum capacity of 3500kg inc ball transfer of say 350kg you cannot legally achieve the 7000kg GCM.
Tug fully laden inc ball transfer........3500kg
Van fully laden after ball transfer......3150kg assuming a 350kg ball weight.
Max legal allowable weight for the combination is therefore 6650kg. regardless of what Lovells have told you.
The measured weight of your combination must not legally exceed the lesser of:
1) The tug manufacturers (or Lovells) rating as published for GCM
2) GVM plus GTM. (GVM plus ATM minus Ball weight)
Montie
-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 26th of September 2017 07:51:50 AM
Lovells can do a GVM upgrade after rego , mate has just had his 12 month old Hilux done .
I'd love to have a camera under it watching the suspension areas on Corrugated. Rough roads.
All that extra on a 2.5ton BASE CHASSIS build.
It won't be the first to flex. Bend. or crack it's rails.
They are one that does it too. Ask the mines.
People don't realise how many, Utes especially
park up with bent. Cracked. Chassis
through overloading and rough roads, tracks.
Extra lift underneath. with maybe a bit of gusseting.
Does NOT, a really stronger chassis make.
For too long anyway.
Thanks Montie yes I agree. Still much better than the standard 6000kg's without the Lovell's GVM Upgrade