Hi, we're preparing to take our van for a long awaited cruise and consequently our discussions, etc. have got to the GVM; ATM; GTM; TBM questions. We have a 2007 Jayco Masport Poptop and our "tug" is 1993 series 80 Landcruiser.
The VIN plate on the van states: GTM 1333kg; ATM 1494kg; Tare Mass 1194kg.
Now, we know that our "tug" has a capacity of 2500kg, so it appears we don't have a "weight" problem if these figures are accurate. We wonder how much faith we should put in the VIN plate ..... as we have read on various forums that the vin plates are not always "correct" ....
Dougwe said
12:38 PM Oct 9, 2017
If possible weigh the van before you load it up then when everything you think you need is in. I got a big shock and now don't travel with all that much stuff and I am full time on the road.
Don't forget to add the tow ball weight and people to the tug weight.
Possum3 said
12:38 PM Oct 9, 2017
Empty out water tanks, take out consumables and clothing and sundry tools - Take off gas cylinders. Go to any authorised weighbridge and get weight certified on slip of paper - That is your actual Tare despite what is stamped on VIN Plate. If Vin plate incorrect (you can almost bet it will be understated) you will need to go to automotive engineer to have all weights re calculated and a new vin plate produced to actually work out what your correct payload will be.
There are lots of variables like suspension and axle ratings, tyre ratings also come into calculations. Remember when the mermaids pull you over "You" are liable for any fine despite wrong information on VIN plate, you will also lose demerit points, and it is possible you may have to have your whole rig transported on a tow truck to an engineer to have corrected - You can almost guarantee that the nearest engineer to recalculate and rectify will be thousands of Klms away, not around the corner from home.
It can be a very expensive (in both money and time) to be caught out on the road in a incorrect weight of caravan.
Nomad1946 said
01:47 PM Oct 9, 2017
Thanks for that .... sort of figured we'd best do that. Just looking for "confirmation" I guess. The use of the description of "mermaids" suggests to me that your are from England .... am I right?
Yuglamron said
05:12 PM Oct 9, 2017
Crazy rules abought weights Vin Plates Etc.
I have a Motor Home built on a commercial engine/Chassis. A MAN FOCL Bus/Truck Chassis.
Had to take it for an annual Certificate of Inspection in Qld.
Two hours later the inspector asked me where the VIN plate was as he couldn't find it. I told him it doesn't have one only a compliance plate.
Quote "I've been inspecting vehicles for twenty****ing years it has to have a ***** VIN plate"
I had to get out all the paperwork for the vehicle to show him the Exemption certificate before he would believe there is no VIN Plate.
So the VIN plate is supposed to identify the vehicle, it's weights etc. Yeah !!!!
Delta18 said
05:45 PM Oct 9, 2017
Nomad1946 wrote:
Thanks for that .... sort of figured we'd best do that. Just looking for "confirmation" I guess. The use of the description of "mermaids" suggests to me that your are from England .... am I right?
"Mermaids" is a very common term for Transport Dept doing on-road weighing, appropriate name really.
The TARE of your van is only of use to you, the scalies are not interested in it. They are only interested in the van's ATM and GTM and GVM & GCM of your tow car.
Your van will have the ATM and GTM on the plate so just load what you think you need, then weigh the van to see that it is under these weights and you are good to go.
Weigh your car with fuel, passengers & stuff you travel with, with the van connected to determine the car GVM then add the van GTM to arrive at your GCM.
Cheers Neil
macka17 said
09:21 PM Oct 9, 2017
THe "normal" VIN weight of a van.
Is PRE. Gas. Battery's. Solar. Roll out. rear carrier. Spare wheel.
Just ONE empty bottle and completely empty inside.
THEN.. They add gas.roll out etc. etc.
Basically. ALL the add on's over and above the chassis and body
are additions to TARE.
As said above. NO interest to law.
Only thing they want.
is AXLE weights. ALL of them, individually and combined.
He can get you there alone if not loaded properly.
A few trucks have gone that way believe me.
Max on tyres weight of van. Car. and both combined.
WITH you and missus on scales too.
PS. Change her for a skinny missus.
Gives you more leeway on weights.
That 20\50\100kg can make ALL the difference hey. Chuckle.
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:31 PM Oct 9, 2017
Hello Bob, welcome to the Department of "Weights & Measures"!
There has been a stack of examples shown here of recent times regarding this (shocking) subject. "Shocking" refers to what we get when we do the first ridgey-didge check!
Your "Load" = ATM minus Tare (300Kg) is what you carry in the van that wasn't there when the caravan was weighed (or averaged for the type of van) at manufacture (Tare). It includes bedding (but not the mattress(s), clothing, food, gas, water, battery, any solar panels you may have installed on top, etc.
From your figures shown, your TBM is 160Kg (ATM minus GTM) which seems a little high for an unloaded van of light weights.
I emptied my van recently for "the test" - didn't remove the battery as it is in an awkward position. My tare was 40Kg over the VIN Plate & as batteries weigh about 25-30Kg, I deciphered that my tare includes the awning. My van is legal only if I don't have my water tanks full (or one nearly full, the other empty). My critical measurement with the car is the GVM as there is no GCM shown on the plate.
Dougwe mentioned to weigh your van. I support Neil in weighing the vehicle & see how that weight compares with the GVM. Hopefully you will have some room to add the weight of your passenger(s), the caravan (TBM) & whatever you want to carry in the car.
Warren
Possum3 said
08:57 AM Oct 10, 2017
Nomad1946 wrote:
Thanks for that .... sort of figured we'd best do that. Just looking for "confirmation" I guess. The use of the description of "mermaids" suggests to me that your are from England .... am I right?
Definitely not from England, My relations watched Dirk Hartog sail past - Mermaids is a term referring to C*nt's with scales.
macka17 said
11:16 PM Oct 10, 2017
No mate.
Just blokes doing a job to try and keep a little safety on the roads.
The way some overload and lack of maint'
THEY are very necessary believe me. Some rigs are bloody ridiculous. load wise.
and a lot don't care.
Soon they'll be pulled up and sorted. Hopefully.
Big Mal said
03:37 PM Oct 13, 2017
No usually the only thing thats correct on the vin plate is the vin, most of the time the weights are a mathematical equation. Weigh tug loaded for a trip, add tow ball weight, it should be under the GVM on the tugs plate, then weigh the van on it's own it should be under the ATM on the van plate now hook it up to tug and the combined weight should be less than the tugs GCM.....................if not youvé blown it........
You can still be out on axle weights even if the total kgs is in order.
montie said
07:03 AM Oct 15, 2017
Nomad1946 wrote:
Hi, we're preparing to take our van for a long awaited cruise and consequently our discussions, etc. have got to the GVM; ATM; GTM; TBM questions. We have a 2007 Jayco Masport Poptop and our "tug" is 1993 series 80 Landcruiser.
The VIN plate on the van states: GTM 1333kg; ATM 1494kg; Tare Mass 1194kg.
Now, we know that our "tug" has a capacity of 2500kg, so it appears we don't have a "weight" problem if these figures are accurate. We wonder how much faith we should put in the VIN plate ..... as we have read on various forums that the vin plates are not always "correct" ....
The simplest way to check is load your van for travel with tanks etc full.
The measured weight of this loaded van unhitched cannot legally exceed 1494kg which is your plated ATM.
When doing this you can also measure or calculate your ball weight. Put the hitched van only on scales and measure, then without moving the van unhitch and check weight of van again. The difference will be your actual ball weight.
Your actual ball weight must not legally exceed the lesser of tug or towbar rating. In your case your loaded ball weight should be around 150kg.
The measured weight of the tug with van attached must not exceed the tug rated GVM on it's compliance plate.
The most likely figure on the van plate to be incorrect will be the Tare because of additions to the van over its life. Using my method of weighing tare is irrelevant. Your loaded van's weight simply cannot exceed the ATM.
-- Edited by montie on Sunday 15th of October 2017 07:10:43 AM
-- Edited by montie on Sunday 15th of October 2017 07:19:43 AM
montie said
07:26 AM Oct 15, 2017
Yuglamron wrote:
Crazy rules abought weights Vin Plates Etc.
I have a Motor Home built on a commercial engine/Chassis. A MAN FOCL Bus/Truck Chassis.
Had to take it for an annual Certificate of Inspection in Qld.
Two hours later the inspector asked me where the VIN plate was as he couldn't find it. I told him it doesn't have one only a compliance plate.
Quote "I've been inspecting vehicles for twenty****ing years it has to have a ***** VIN plate"
I had to get out all the paperwork for the vehicle to show him the Exemption certificate before he would believe there is no VIN Plate.
So the VIN plate is supposed to identify the vehicle, it's weights etc. Yeah !!!!
There were no Vin or Compliance Plates (same thing) prior to 1988 in Aus.
Hi, we're preparing to take our van for a long awaited cruise and consequently our discussions, etc. have got to the GVM; ATM; GTM; TBM questions. We have a 2007 Jayco Masport Poptop and our "tug" is 1993 series 80 Landcruiser.
The VIN plate on the van states: GTM 1333kg; ATM 1494kg; Tare Mass 1194kg.
Now, we know that our "tug" has a capacity of 2500kg, so it appears we don't have a "weight" problem if these figures are accurate. We wonder how much faith we should put in the VIN plate ..... as we have read on various forums that the vin plates are not always "correct" ....
If possible weigh the van before you load it up then when everything you think you need is in. I got a big shock and now don't travel with all that much stuff and I am full time on the road.
Don't forget to add the tow ball weight and people to the tug weight.
There are lots of variables like suspension and axle ratings, tyre ratings also come into calculations. Remember when the mermaids pull you over "You" are liable for any fine despite wrong information on VIN plate, you will also lose demerit points, and it is possible you may have to have your whole rig transported on a tow truck to an engineer to have corrected - You can almost guarantee that the nearest engineer to recalculate and rectify will be thousands of Klms away, not around the corner from home.
It can be a very expensive (in both money and time) to be caught out on the road in a incorrect weight of caravan.
Thanks for that .... sort of figured we'd best do that. Just looking for "confirmation" I guess. The use of the description of "mermaids" suggests to me that your are from England .... am I right?
Crazy rules abought weights Vin Plates Etc.
I have a Motor Home built on a commercial engine/Chassis. A MAN FOCL Bus/Truck Chassis.
Had to take it for an annual Certificate of Inspection in Qld.
Two hours later the inspector asked me where the VIN plate was as he couldn't find it. I told him it doesn't have one only a compliance plate.
Quote "I've been inspecting vehicles for twenty****ing years it has to have a ***** VIN plate"
I had to get out all the paperwork for the vehicle to show him the Exemption certificate before he would believe there is no VIN Plate.
So the VIN plate is supposed to identify the vehicle, it's weights etc. Yeah !!!!
"Mermaids" is a very common term for Transport Dept doing on-road weighing, appropriate name really.
The TARE of your van is only of use to you, the scalies are not interested in it. They are only interested in the van's ATM and GTM and GVM & GCM of your tow car.
Your van will have the ATM and GTM on the plate so just load what you think you need, then weigh the van to see that it is under these weights and you are good to go.
Weigh your car with fuel, passengers & stuff you travel with, with the van connected to determine the car GVM then add the van GTM to arrive at your GCM.
Cheers Neil
Is PRE. Gas. Battery's. Solar. Roll out. rear carrier. Spare wheel.
Just ONE empty bottle and completely empty inside.
THEN.. They add gas.roll out etc. etc.
Basically. ALL the add on's over and above the chassis and body
are additions to TARE.
As said above. NO interest to law.
Only thing they want.
is AXLE weights. ALL of them, individually and combined.
He can get you there alone if not loaded properly.
A few trucks have gone that way believe me.
Max on tyres weight of van. Car. and both combined.
WITH you and missus on scales too.
PS. Change her for a skinny missus.
Gives you more leeway on weights.
That 20\50\100kg can make ALL the difference hey. Chuckle.
There has been a stack of examples shown here of recent times regarding this (shocking) subject. "Shocking" refers to what we get when we do the first ridgey-didge check!
Your "Load" = ATM minus Tare (300Kg) is what you carry in the van that wasn't there when the caravan was weighed (or averaged for the type of van) at manufacture (Tare). It includes bedding (but not the mattress(s), clothing, food, gas, water, battery, any solar panels you may have installed on top, etc.
From your figures shown, your TBM is 160Kg (ATM minus GTM) which seems a little high for an unloaded van of light weights.
I emptied my van recently for "the test" - didn't remove the battery as it is in an awkward position. My tare was 40Kg over the VIN Plate & as batteries weigh about 25-30Kg, I deciphered that my tare includes the awning. My van is legal only if I don't have my water tanks full (or one nearly full, the other empty). My critical measurement with the car is the GVM as there is no GCM shown on the plate.
Dougwe mentioned to weigh your van. I support Neil in weighing the vehicle & see how that weight compares with the GVM. Hopefully you will have some room to add the weight of your passenger(s), the caravan (TBM) & whatever you want to carry in the car.
Warren
Definitely not from England, My relations watched Dirk Hartog sail past - Mermaids is a term referring to C*nt's with scales.
Just blokes doing a job to try and keep a little safety on the roads.
The way some overload and lack of maint'
THEY are very necessary believe me. Some rigs are bloody ridiculous. load wise.
and a lot don't care.
Soon they'll be pulled up and sorted. Hopefully.
You can still be out on axle weights even if the total kgs is in order.
The simplest way to check is load your van for travel with tanks etc full.
The measured weight of this loaded van unhitched cannot legally exceed 1494kg which is your plated ATM.
When doing this you can also measure or calculate your ball weight. Put the hitched van only on scales and measure, then without moving the van unhitch and check weight of van again. The difference will be your actual ball weight.
Your actual ball weight must not legally exceed the lesser of tug or towbar rating. In your case your loaded ball weight should be around 150kg.
The measured weight of the tug with van attached must not exceed the tug rated GVM on it's compliance plate.
The most likely figure on the van plate to be incorrect will be the Tare because of additions to the van over its life. Using my method of weighing tare is irrelevant. Your loaded van's weight simply cannot exceed the ATM.
-- Edited by montie on Sunday 15th of October 2017 07:10:43 AM
-- Edited by montie on Sunday 15th of October 2017 07:19:43 AM