Current setup a mix n match to wrong systems installed when van purchased.
To cut a long story short, system stands now as follows.
· 3 105ah deep cycle batteries. (2AGM and 1 GEL) Not my doing.
· Projecta 50-amp AC-DC charger. Replaces unsuitable charger supplied with van.
· Projecta 600w Inverter
· 12 currently charged from alternator via Anderson plug on front of van.
· 300w solar on roof and 2 external 300w.
Due to he system being wrongly setup on delivery the 3 batteries have been depleted often and are now stuffed.
Proposed changes.
· Replace batteries with 2x 140 ah Century Gel or AGM.? I am told Gel has faster recovery rate. Suggestions welcome here.
· Install dc-dc charger.
· Install Redarc or similar relay to get better performance.
· Have 2nd Anderson outlet inside car to charge Arc Box battery. This box is used to power the spare fridge in car, jump starting if needed and anything else.
· We have a 210l 12v compressor fridge. Note: We require this setup as we are on the road full time. Currently in Tasmania and solar is hopeless most days = generator
p
-- Edited by Snippy on Saturday 17th of February 2018 11:52:52 PM
iana said
12:33 AM Feb 18, 2018
Hi Snippy, a point to consider, we have a similar setup, and 210 compressor fridge. I have set up the system so I can run the fridge from the aux battery in the tow vehicle, and also can run the motor for power, when in real trouble. Have a heavy extension cable between the ute and van.
-- Edited by iana on Sunday 18th of February 2018 12:33:58 AM
Snippy said
05:03 AM Feb 18, 2018
iana wrote:
Hi Snippy, a point to consider, we have a similar setup, and 210 compressor fridge. I have set up the system so I can run the fridge from the aux battery in the tow vehicle, and also can run the motor for power, when in real trouble. Have a heavy extension cable between the ute and van.
-- Edited by iana on Sunday 18th of February 2018 12:33:58 AM
Thanks Iana, The fridge is ignition fed when driving. Yes, the auxilliary battery in the car could be a good backup though.
T1 Terry said
04:31 PM Feb 18, 2018
Snippy wrote:
Current setup a mix n match to wrong systems installed when van purchased.
To cut a long story short, system stands now as follows.
· 3 105ah deep cycle batteries. (2AGM and 1 GEL) Not my doing.
· Projecta 50-amp AC-DC charger. Replaces unsuitable charger supplied with van.
· Projecta 600w Inverter
· 12 currently charged from alternator via Anderson plug on front of van.
· 300w solar on roof and 2 external 300w.
Due to he system being wrongly setup on delivery the 3 batteries have been depleted often and are now stuffed.
Proposed changes.
· Replace batteries with 2x 140 ah Century Gel or AGM.? I am told Gel has faster recovery rate. Suggestions welcome here.
· Install dc-dc charger.
· Install Redarc or similar relay to get better performance.
· Have 2nd Anderson outlet inside car to charge Arc Box battery. This box is used to power the spare fridge in car, jump starting if needed and anything else.
· We have a 210l 12v compressor fridge. Note: We require this setup as we are on the road full time. Currently in Tasmania and solar is hopeless most days = generator
p
-- Edited by Snippy on Saturday 17th of February 2018 11:52:52 PM
OK, the compressor fridge requires roughly 400w of solar to give a reliable continuous operation in the sort of mixed weather normally associated with full time travel.
Gel batteries do not recover faster than AGM batteries and actually require a very careful recharging/load regime to avoid bubbles forming in the electrolyte gel. These bubbles result in a slow but accelerated death in a gel battery because they can not float to the surface and are trapped between the electrolyte gel and the plate surface. No direct contact results in no chemical exchange and a sulphated spot. As the surface area reduces due the bubble the greater the likely hood of more bubbles occurring because the same amount of current transfer now has a smaller area to occur, so the current per sq mm increases.
You have 300w of solar that could be charging at the same time as the DC to DC charger is charging, you need both and not just one or the other. Avoid using any type of charger that disconnects other charging systems so only one runs at a time. If you want to rapid recharge or recharge when conditions are not ideal you need everything to be available to charge at the same time.
PWM type controllers do this job the best, they don't care if anything else is charging at the same time, they are only interested in the battery voltage not exceeding the max voltage set for that stage of charging. Basically, if the battery can accept the charge the max available from every source will flow into the battery, if it can't handle all of it, each unit will adjust till the max rate it can accept is met. Only MPPT control systems have issues with sharing the job with other charging sources and these are the unit that will only allow on charging source at a time to operate and to a max of the output that unit can handle.
As far as battery chemistry choice, in Tassie the solar is not the greatest at any time of the yr so you need a battery chemistry that will accept all you can give it till it is full yet not suffer any ill effects if it doesn't reach 100%. Lithium is the only battery chemistry on the market now that can do that and sadly not all lithium batteries are created equal.
T1 Terry
Aus-Kiwi said
07:30 PM Feb 18, 2018
A low battery voltage relay isolator in there
T1 Terry said
11:32 AM Feb 19, 2018
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
A low battery voltage relay isolator in there
An integral part of the system we design but aimed at protecting the battery from damage to save damaging such a valuable investment. We do include a by pass so the user can choice to limit power usage till recharging can be arranged, a necessity if there is a CPAP machine involved and desirable to avoid loosing the freezer/fridge contents. There is a warning alarm quite a bit earlier than the battery isolation kicks in, but if no one is there to here it scream .....
T1 Terry
Aus-Kiwi said
01:16 PM Feb 19, 2018
^^ yep total package ^^
Cupie said
01:32 PM Feb 19, 2018
T1 Terry wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
A low battery voltage relay isolator in there
An integral part of the system we design but aimed at protecting the battery from damage to save damaging such a valuable investment. We do include a by pass so the user can choice to limit power usage till recharging can be arranged, a necessity if there is a CPAP machine involved and desirable to avoid loosing the freezer/fridge contents. There is a warning alarm quite a bit earlier than the battery isolation kicks in, but if no one is there to here it scream .....
T1 Terry
The you beaut expensive Redarc Bty Mgt System in the Daughter's camper trailer has that feature. Alarm at a setable V & a cut out a bit lower than that (also setable). Mine is just a cheapie that releases a cut out relay & I have an override switch.
Aus-Kiwi said
01:57 PM Feb 19, 2018
Big $$ on full system or check out the little bits and pieces one way or newer better two way VSR etc . Having fitted one between house and motorhome batteries just MAKES the system almost fool proof . Another can be used to isolate appliances in order of preference or importance . Cpat over fridge over night etc ??
swamp said
08:35 PM Feb 19, 2018
hi Solar in Tasmania is an issue Sun at 100% intensity,,, 6 hrs January ,,, 2.5 hrs winter By comparison this is poor compared to warmer climate . Sun at below 100% is unreliable to measure although it does happen
Sun wattage is also reduced by solar panel being flat and not tilted towards the sun constantly poor cable size = power loss controller type and quality /efficiency
5.5 hrs of peak sun hrs is the average for most of mainland ozzy for 80% of the year
BASICALLY U NEED TO CHARGE YOUR BATTERIES DURING PEAK SUN HOURS
Most on the mainland 200watts per 100-120Ah battery . In the cooler climates south OZ even more watts needed .
In TAZZIE you will need closer to 300watts per 100-120ah batt
Long term 3batterries ---at least-- 300AH solar 600watts minimum PLUS
Controller is Combined unit Dc/dc 50amp and solar 50 amp ,,PROJECTA IDC 50
600watts = approx. 33amps plus MPPT of 30% =44amps total
Dc to dc supply cable == car to charger minimum 25mmsq budget ,,,best would be 35mmsq size or larger
-- Edited by swamp on Monday 19th of February 2018 10:32:49 PM
T1 Terry said
01:23 PM Feb 20, 2018
Just to clarify the "Peak sun hrs" term, it refers to all the sun available on average through the day for that time of yr, condensed into full sun hrs to enable rough calculations for the amount of solar required in a particular area during that part of the yr.
Naturally, some days are better than others, so more solar generation happens on those days, but averaged out over the season the good and bad days add up to roughly these peak sun figures. Tassie just has such poor peak sun hrs because both the sun angle and the number of no cloud days are few compared to cloudy days bad enough to effect solar output.
Over all energy storage needs to take into consideration the total requirement per 24hrs against a combination of storage capacity and the ability to recharge that storage as well as supply the day time needs while the recharging is taking place.
Current setup a mix n match to wrong systems installed when van purchased.
To cut a long story short, system stands now as follows.
· 12 currently charged from alternator via Anderson plug on front of van.
· 300w solar on roof and 2 external 300w.
Due to he system being wrongly setup on delivery the 3 batteries have been depleted often and are now stuffed.
Proposed changes.
· Have 2nd Anderson outlet inside car to charge Arc Box battery. This box is used to power the spare fridge in car, jump starting if needed and anything else.
· We have a 210l 12v compressor fridge. Note: We require this setup as we are on the road full time. Currently in Tasmania and solar is hopeless most days = generator
p
-- Edited by Snippy on Saturday 17th of February 2018 11:52:52 PM
Hi Snippy, a point to consider, we have a similar setup, and 210 compressor fridge. I have set up the system so I can run the fridge from the aux battery in the tow vehicle, and also can run the motor for power, when in real trouble. Have a heavy extension cable between the ute and van.
-- Edited by iana on Sunday 18th of February 2018 12:33:58 AM
Thanks Iana, The fridge is ignition fed when driving. Yes, the auxilliary battery in the car could be a good backup though.
OK, the compressor fridge requires roughly 400w of solar to give a reliable continuous operation in the sort of mixed weather normally associated with full time travel.
Gel batteries do not recover faster than AGM batteries and actually require a very careful recharging/load regime to avoid bubbles forming in the electrolyte gel. These bubbles result in a slow but accelerated death in a gel battery because they can not float to the surface and are trapped between the electrolyte gel and the plate surface. No direct contact results in no chemical exchange and a sulphated spot. As the surface area reduces due the bubble the greater the likely hood of more bubbles occurring because the same amount of current transfer now has a smaller area to occur, so the current per sq mm increases.
You have 300w of solar that could be charging at the same time as the DC to DC charger is charging, you need both and not just one or the other. Avoid using any type of charger that disconnects other charging systems so only one runs at a time. If you want to rapid recharge or recharge when conditions are not ideal you need everything to be available to charge at the same time.
PWM type controllers do this job the best, they don't care if anything else is charging at the same time, they are only interested in the battery voltage not exceeding the max voltage set for that stage of charging. Basically, if the battery can accept the charge the max available from every source will flow into the battery, if it can't handle all of it, each unit will adjust till the max rate it can accept is met. Only MPPT control systems have issues with sharing the job with other charging sources and these are the unit that will only allow on charging source at a time to operate and to a max of the output that unit can handle.
As far as battery chemistry choice, in Tassie the solar is not the greatest at any time of the yr so you need a battery chemistry that will accept all you can give it till it is full yet not suffer any ill effects if it doesn't reach 100%. Lithium is the only battery chemistry on the market now that can do that and sadly not all lithium batteries are created equal.
T1 Terry
An integral part of the system we design but aimed at protecting the battery from damage to save damaging such a valuable investment. We do include a by pass so the user can choice to limit power usage till recharging can be arranged, a necessity if there is a CPAP machine involved and desirable to avoid loosing the freezer/fridge contents. There is a warning alarm quite a bit earlier than the battery isolation kicks in, but if no one is there to here it scream .....
T1 Terry
The you beaut expensive Redarc Bty Mgt System in the Daughter's camper trailer has that feature. Alarm at a setable V & a cut out a bit lower than that (also setable). Mine is just a cheapie that releases a cut out relay & I have an override switch.
hi
Solar in Tasmania is an issue
Sun at 100% intensity,,, 6 hrs January ,,, 2.5 hrs winter By comparison this is poor compared to warmer climate .
Sun at below 100% is unreliable to measure although it does happen
Sun wattage is also reduced by solar panel being flat and not tilted towards the sun constantly
poor cable size = power loss
controller type and quality /efficiency
5.5 hrs of peak sun hrs is the average for most of mainland ozzy for 80% of the year
BASICALLY U NEED TO CHARGE YOUR BATTERIES DURING PEAK SUN HOURS
Most on the mainland 200watts per 100-120Ah battery . In the cooler climates south OZ even more watts needed .
In TAZZIE you will need closer to 300watts per 100-120ah batt
Long term 3batterries ---at least-- 300AH
solar 600watts minimum PLUS
Controller is Combined unit Dc/dc 50amp and solar 50 amp ,,PROJECTA IDC 50
600watts = approx. 33amps plus MPPT of 30% =44amps total
Dc to dc supply cable == car to charger minimum 25mmsq budget ,,,best would be 35mmsq size or larger
-- Edited by swamp on Monday 19th of February 2018 10:32:49 PM
Naturally, some days are better than others, so more solar generation happens on those days, but averaged out over the season the good and bad days add up to roughly these peak sun figures. Tassie just has such poor peak sun hrs because both the sun angle and the number of no cloud days are few compared to cloudy days bad enough to effect solar output.
Over all energy storage needs to take into consideration the total requirement per 24hrs against a combination of storage capacity and the ability to recharge that storage as well as supply the day time needs while the recharging is taking place.
T1 Terry