Hi Guys and Gals our poor old ford transit camper(franklin Body style) vintage 1978 has solar panel on the roof with 300w inverter inside living area .We have been diagnosed the inverter is kaput. My question (s) do i replace it myself with compatible Jaycar one,or should i go up a couple of hundred watts while im at it.How can it find out the capability of the solar panel as its fastened to a rack on the roof.?vehicle has 3 large batteries fitted (2under bonnet 1 in kichen cupboard )2 have been replaced this week with new deep cycle batteries1 under bonnet and 1 in cupboard joined by heavy duty cabling under body. Also would it be a better set-up to have 2 batteries in the cupboard ,there is room.Thats all I can think of for now ,look for to your advice/comments.Cheers
If you increase the inverter capacity you also need to ensure the cables, fuses, batteries et al can support the increased current. The above product gives you an immediate fix for not much money and you can then consider at leisure if you need to upgrade.
pommie vic said
09:22 AM Feb 22, 2018
thanks Mike food for thought
Aus-Kiwi said
10:13 AM Feb 22, 2018
Yes just check cable size ? Depends on watt you want to run ? As said much safer replacing what you have . My little 300 watt inverter works fine just powering TV . Doesnât seem to use more than the12v it replaced !!
T1 Terry said
11:08 AM Feb 22, 2018
pommie vic wrote:
Hi Guys and Gals our poor old ford transit camper(franklin Body style) vintage 1978 has solar panel on the roof with 300w inverter inside living area .We have been diagnosed the inverter is kaput. My question (s) do i replace it myself with compatible Jaycar one,or should i go up a couple of hundred watts while im at it.How can it find out the capability of the solar panel as its fastened to a rack on the roof.?vehicle has 3 large batteries fitted (2under bonnet 1 in kichen cupboard )2 have been replaced this week with new deep cycle batteries1 under bonnet and 1 in cupboard joined by heavy duty cabling under body. Also would it be a better set-up to have 2 batteries in the cupboard ,there is room.Thats all I can think of for now ,look for to your advice/comments.Cheers
I'm a tad lost here, is it the solar control that has died or the inverter that converts battery voltage to 240vac?
T1 Terry
Aus-Kiwi said
11:31 AM Feb 22, 2018
Yea I assume . Inverter . As he said 300 watt . ??
T1 Terry said
01:22 PM Feb 22, 2018
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Yea I assume . Inverter . As he said 300 watt . ??
I've given up guessing cause I always seem to get it wrong :lol: A lot of people get their terminologies wrong and sometimes an MPPT solar regulator is referred to as an inverter, then the 300w could be the rated size of the solar array it can handle.
If it is a 300w 12v inverter that produces 240vac from a 12v battery, my recommendation would be the 375w Victron pure sine wave inverter so often used as a supply for a household inverter style fridge. These things use very little stand by power and can handle being switch on 24/7 for yr after yr, and they are fairly cheap on ebay.
T1 Terry
GreyTech said
01:26 PM Feb 22, 2018
Stay away from Modified Sine Wave inverters, old technology that has had its day and is only safe for driving motors and resistive elements. The output can be full of spikes and many power supplies won't work properly with them or run hot.
Why not invest in 12v appliances? Do you really need an inverter? My van runs entirely on 12v or gas. Fridge, fans, TV, computer & internet, stereo and lights all run on 12v. I have 250w solar and 2x 70amp AGM batteries which is adequate.
T1 Terry said
02:30 PM Feb 22, 2018
msg wrote:
Why not invest in 12v appliances? Do you really need an inverter? My van runs entirely on 12v or gas. Fridge, fans, TV, computer & internet, stereo and lights all run on 12v. I have 250w solar and 2x 70amp AGM batteries which is adequate.
Most people are going in the opposite direction, some even going to 240vac lighting and hot water along with induction cooktops and air fryer cookers and of course 240vac inverter air conditioners. Why, the cost of 240vac appliances compared to 12v appliances is the major reason, the other is convenience because most RV's already have all the 240vac wiring and power points installed. Try to get a caravan or motorhome dealer to install the correct sized 12v DC cable and see how you go, yet they will install suitable 240vac cable.
Check out the price of a 12v compressor fridge compared to 240vac inverter fridge, you can buy 4 of the 240v units for less than the cost of 1 x 12v unit. The next thing is the 240vac unit uses less battery power than the 12v unit even with the overhead losses of the inverter to run it, yet it works just like the one at home rather than sort of works as long as it doesn't get too hot outside ad you don't open the door too often.
How about a 12v oven compared to a 240vac air fryer or even a 240vac small oven the same size as the 12v model, which one works first time every time and give repeatable performance every time?
Things have changed a lot over the last 10 yrs, there is no longer a reason to put up with the high cost and poor performance of 12v stuff.
T1 Terry
pommie vic said
02:41 PM Feb 22, 2018
thanks fellas certainly a wealth of info out there ,will have think about all your suggestions
Aus-Kiwi said
02:42 PM Feb 22, 2018
Yes plus 240v ( LV) installations are more inspected . Well should be up to spec before sale or use .
msg said
06:40 PM Feb 22, 2018
T1, If you convert to all 240v to run ovens etc, the cost would be a lot more than a few appliances. We all know that you think lithium batteries are the way to go. But,the cost at the moment is prohibive. Also there is a dearth of technical knowledge available and they are still unproven in the wider world. Then there is the cost of an inverter. They are not so cheap either. So a few 12v appliciances are not such a big deal.
T1 Terry said
02:03 PM Feb 23, 2018
msg wrote:
T1, If you convert to all 240v to run ovens etc, the cost would be a lot more than a few appliances. We all know that you think lithium batteries are the way to go. But,the cost at the moment is prohibive. Also there is a dearth of technical knowledge available and they are still unproven in the wider world. Then there is the cost of an inverter. They are not so cheap either. So a few 12v appliciances are not such a big deal.
I guess it comes down to use patterns, if you only use the van rarely and mostly in a caravan park, then I can't even see the need for the 12v appliances. If you use the van to live in long term then things change a lot. Not all but a lot of our customers are travelling either 8mths a yr or full time. The issues regarding 12v appliances are just a sample from conversion we have done over the last 7 yrs or more.
A dead 12v fridge replaced with an inverter type 240vac fridge at a fraction of the cost of the 12v replacement including the cost of the inverter, yet works far better.
A 12v pie oven for a part time gold prospector, wanted it because another gold prospector said he just put his pies in the over in the morning and they were perfect by lunch time. The real story turned out to be missing the "sometimes" part. The real thing was either still cold in the middle to dried to crisp. The convection microwave, from freezer to plate with a crispy crust, around 10 mins. every time.
As far as the battery being cost prohibitive, full time on the road 2 x 200Ah AGM last a bit short of 3 yrs till they won't deliver the required output over night. At around 2 1/2yrs, after a day of bad weather so little to no solar, by 3 yrs not at all. The replacement lithium battery to give the same useable capacity where the 12v under load was still met would have been roughly 1/3rd more expensive, yet 7 yrs later is still doing its job even if there are a few days rain. That means the cost of 3 sets of AGM batteries was eliminated by paying the 1/3rd extra for the first replacement set .... can't see where you get the "prohibitively expensive" from?
It is up to the individual to choice how they want to spend their leisure time. Some are happy to live with a limited power use and always watching the battery monitor, others aren't real keen on roughing it after a life time of working to earn their leisure time and prefer to spend a bit more initially to have the freedom they want. The cost of not having to limit their power use, just want it to work every time and have no interest in watching the battery monitor like a hawk isn't near as bad as you might think.
T1 Terry
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Friday 23rd of February 2018 02:05:02 PM
msg said
02:47 PM Feb 23, 2018
Exaggeration T1. I live in my van and free camp most of the time for 9 months of the year. All appliances are original (including AGMs) and still work no probs after 10yrs.
T1 Terry said
03:05 PM Feb 23, 2018
msg wrote:
Exaggeration T1. I live in my van and free camp most of the time for 9 months of the year. All appliances are original (including AGMs) and still work no probs after 10yrs.
So, you have all 12v appliances, live 9mths of the yr powered by the AGM batteries and they are still going strong after 10 yrs? Not even the manufacturers make claims like that so you must have an amazing set of AGM batteries is all I can say. The manufacturer only suggests a 10yr life if they are never cycled, standby only, never actually used and live on a charger.
T1 Terry
pommie vic said
04:09 PM Feb 23, 2018
Now Now boys be nice to each other. I have now found a local sparkie to help resolve my dilema.He suggested to up inverter to 600watt take extra battery back to cupboard in kitchen and wire in to that battery to remove exposed cabling under vehicle and tidy up that bit.Then couple up standaloan battery charger to maintain slave batteries.isolate caravan 240 plug and install new mains socket outlet inside for 240 utensiles when on powered sites.Hows that sound.One more question theres no interior rear vision mirror because back window is frosted glass but i have a spare wifi reversing camera that i could setup to view rear traffic. would it be illegal to operate it at all time or switch it off untill reverse is needed?
pommie vic said
04:13 PM Feb 23, 2018
PS forgot thank you for all your input much obliged .
oldtrack123 said
10:57 PM Feb 23, 2018
pommie vic wrote:
Now Now boys be nice to each other. I have now found a local sparkie to help resolve my dilema.He suggested to up inverter to 600watt take extra battery back to cupboard in kitchen and wire in to that battery to remove exposed cabling under vehicle and tidy up that bit.Then couple up standaloan battery charger to maintain slave batteries.isolate caravan 240 plug and install new mains socket outlet inside for 240 utensiles when on powered sites.Hows that sound.One more question theres no interior rear vision mirror because back window is frosted glass but i have a spare wifi reversing camera that i could setup to view rear traffic. would it be illegal to operate it at all time or switch it off untill reverse is needed?
I just hope your local electrician has the Standard AS/NZS3001 [ latest version] before he start playing around with any 240V van wiring
ASK him to show you he has one
if he does not have one ,find some one who has one
[a]Are you also charging the van batteries from the vehicle alternator? if not ,why not?
do you presently have a mains charger wired to the batteries?
[c]Are you saying that the van ,currently, is not fitted with' / wired for 240 mains supply [with a power inlet socket on the outside?
Any changes to the 240v shall comply to the Current Standards .
That would include fitting a RCD , or if you ever expect to plug in a 240V generator a RVD , to the incoming 240V supply
Know of no reason that you could not have the camera on all the time
Many people now have front & back cameras on while driving ,in case of accidents'
Often the police ask if anyone may have footage of incidents
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 24th of February 2018 02:02:57 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
08:49 AM Feb 24, 2018
He could be running it directly off the inverter ?? Being 300 watt ??
oldtrack123 said
01:56 PM Feb 24, 2018
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
He could be running it directly off the inverter ?? Being 300 watt ??
What would he be running of the inverter, the 240V charger? .
I,' not sure what he actually means ,but it does seem to indicate some changes to the 240V
He is going to have a 240V charger
T1 Terry said
02:24 PM Feb 24, 2018
pommie vic wrote:
Now Now boys be nice to each other. I have now found a local sparkie to help resolve my dilema.He suggested to up inverter to 600watt take extra battery back to cupboard in kitchen and wire in to that battery to remove exposed cabling under vehicle and tidy up that bit.Then couple up standaloan battery charger to maintain slave batteries.isolate caravan 240 plug and install new mains socket outlet inside for 240 utensiles when on powered sites.Hows that sound.One more question theres no interior rear vision mirror because back window is frosted glass but i have a spare wifi reversing camera that i could setup to view rear traffic. would it be illegal to operate it at all time or switch it off untill reverse is needed?
Glad you have it sorted. As far as the camera, very strange rules from state to state, some say no screen can be visible to the driver while driving, certain law enforcement people deem a reversing camera on full time to be a video screen. Other states seem to accept video feeds as a form of rear view mirror and allow split/merged screens from multiple cameras to give an all round view looking towards the rear of the vehicle.
To me this all round video view makes the best sense, blind spots are eliminated and anything that helps the driver with a better view of just what is going on around their vehicle is a driver aid. So if you do get pinged for it, it is not a reversing camera but a driver aid, that makes it a lot harder to get any sort of enforcement against it to stick
T1 Terry
Aus-Kiwi said
02:29 PM Feb 24, 2018
Yes he mentioned that latter . Unless he uses 240 direct from external lead to charger ?.. Yes itâs very important to get it wired properly .
Hi Guys and Gals our poor old ford transit camper(franklin Body style) vintage 1978 has solar panel on the roof with 300w inverter inside living area .We have been diagnosed the inverter is kaput. My question (s) do i replace it myself with compatible Jaycar one,or should i go up a couple of hundred watts while im at it.How can it find out the capability of the solar panel as its fastened to a rack on the roof.?vehicle has 3 large batteries fitted (2under bonnet 1 in kichen cupboard )2 have been replaced this week with new deep cycle batteries1 under bonnet and 1 in cupboard joined by heavy duty cabling under body. Also would it be a better set-up to have 2 batteries in the cupboard ,there is room.Thats all I can think of for now ,look for to your advice/comments.Cheers
Stay with the same size:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300W-600-watt-max-Power-Inverter-12-240V-M-Sine-Wave-Laptop-Charger-Car-Boat/252798717036?hash=item3adbfa4c6c:g:OzoAAOSwSlBYu7hK
If you increase the inverter capacity you also need to ensure the cables, fuses, batteries et al can support the increased current. The above product gives you an immediate fix for not much money and you can then consider at leisure if you need to upgrade.
I'm a tad lost here, is it the solar control that has died or the inverter that converts battery voltage to 240vac?
T1 Terry
I've given up guessing cause I always seem to get it wrong :lol: A lot of people get their terminologies wrong and sometimes an MPPT solar regulator is referred to as an inverter, then the 300w could be the rated size of the solar array it can handle.
If it is a 300w 12v inverter that produces 240vac from a 12v battery, my recommendation would be the 375w Victron pure sine wave inverter so often used as a supply for a household inverter style fridge. These things use very little stand by power and can handle being switch on 24/7 for yr after yr, and they are fairly cheap on ebay.
T1 Terry
Modern electronics that use switch mode power supplies (most electronics) need Pure Sine Wave inverter. You need to work out what you want to drive, but for simple things such as 240V fans, laptops, etc 300W should be adequate. Always buy one twice the size you need as (for example) a 300W inverter typically can usually only supply 150W continuous, the 300W rating only covers switch-on surge.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Pure-Sine-Wave-Power-Inverter-Max-12-240V-300W-600W-Car-FWD-Caravan-Boat/380594545641
www.jaycar.com.au/power-products-electrical/power-conversion-transformation/dc-ac-inverters/c/405C
Most people are going in the opposite direction, some even going to 240vac lighting and hot water along with induction cooktops and air fryer cookers and of course 240vac inverter air conditioners. Why, the cost of 240vac appliances compared to 12v appliances is the major reason, the other is convenience because most RV's already have all the 240vac wiring and power points installed. Try to get a caravan or motorhome dealer to install the correct sized 12v DC cable and see how you go, yet they will install suitable 240vac cable.
Check out the price of a 12v compressor fridge compared to 240vac inverter fridge, you can buy 4 of the 240v units for less than the cost of 1 x 12v unit. The next thing is the 240vac unit uses less battery power than the 12v unit even with the overhead losses of the inverter to run it, yet it works just like the one at home rather than sort of works as long as it doesn't get too hot outside ad you don't open the door too often.
How about a 12v oven compared to a 240vac air fryer or even a 240vac small oven the same size as the 12v model, which one works first time every time and give repeatable performance every time?
Things have changed a lot over the last 10 yrs, there is no longer a reason to put up with the high cost and poor performance of 12v stuff.
T1 Terry
I guess it comes down to use patterns, if you only use the van rarely and mostly in a caravan park, then I can't even see the need for the 12v appliances. If you use the van to live in long term then things change a lot. Not all but a lot of our customers are travelling either 8mths a yr or full time. The issues regarding 12v appliances are just a sample from conversion we have done over the last 7 yrs or more.
A dead 12v fridge replaced with an inverter type 240vac fridge at a fraction of the cost of the 12v replacement including the cost of the inverter, yet works far better.
A 12v pie oven for a part time gold prospector, wanted it because another gold prospector said he just put his pies in the over in the morning and they were perfect by lunch time. The real story turned out to be missing the "sometimes" part. The real thing was either still cold in the middle to dried to crisp. The convection microwave, from freezer to plate with a crispy crust, around 10 mins. every time.
As far as the battery being cost prohibitive, full time on the road 2 x 200Ah AGM last a bit short of 3 yrs till they won't deliver the required output over night. At around 2 1/2yrs, after a day of bad weather so little to no solar, by 3 yrs not at all. The replacement lithium battery to give the same useable capacity where the 12v under load was still met would have been roughly 1/3rd more expensive, yet 7 yrs later is still doing its job even if there are a few days rain. That means the cost of 3 sets of AGM batteries was eliminated by paying the 1/3rd extra for the first replacement set .... can't see where you get the "prohibitively expensive" from?
It is up to the individual to choice how they want to spend their leisure time. Some are happy to live with a limited power use and always watching the battery monitor, others aren't real keen on roughing it after a life time of working to earn their leisure time and prefer to spend a bit more initially to have the freedom they want. The cost of not having to limit their power use, just want it to work every time and have no interest in watching the battery monitor like a hawk isn't near as bad as you might think.
T1 Terry
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Friday 23rd of February 2018 02:05:02 PM
So, you have all 12v appliances, live 9mths of the yr powered by the AGM batteries and they are still going strong after 10 yrs? Not even the manufacturers make claims like that so you must have an amazing set of AGM batteries is all I can say. The manufacturer only suggests a 10yr life if they are never cycled, standby only, never actually used and live on a charger.
T1 Terry
I just hope your local electrician has the Standard AS/NZS3001 [ latest version] before he start playing around with any 240V van wiring
ASK him to show you he has one
if he does not have one ,find some one who has one
[a]Are you also charging the van batteries from the vehicle alternator? if not ,why not?
do you presently have a mains charger wired to the batteries?
[c]Are you saying that the van ,currently, is not fitted with' / wired for 240 mains supply [with a power inlet socket on the outside?
Any changes to the 240v shall comply to the Current Standards .
That would include fitting a RCD , or if you ever expect to plug in a 240V generator a RVD , to the incoming 240V supply
Know of no reason that you could not have the camera on all the time
Many people now have front & back cameras on while driving ,in case of accidents'
Often the police ask if anyone may have footage of incidents
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 24th of February 2018 02:02:57 PM
What would he be running of the inverter, the 240V charger? .
I,' not sure what he actually means ,but it does seem to indicate some changes to the 240V
He is going to have a 240V charger
Glad you have it sorted. As far as the camera, very strange rules from state to state, some say no screen can be visible to the driver while driving, certain law enforcement people deem a reversing camera on full time to be a video screen. Other states seem to accept video feeds as a form of rear view mirror and allow split/merged screens from multiple cameras to give an all round view looking towards the rear of the vehicle.
To me this all round video view makes the best sense, blind spots are eliminated and anything that helps the driver with a better view of just what is going on around their vehicle is a driver aid. So if you do get pinged for it, it is not a reversing camera but a driver aid, that makes it a lot harder to get any sort of enforcement against it to stick
T1 Terry