In the market soon for a small SUV with the rare occasion of towing our small caravan atm 748kg.
In the running is a nice Mazda cx3 SUV. This car in petrol form has a braked towing capacity of 1200kg. However its turbo diesel 1.4 litre brother has a braked towing capacity of 800kg. Apparently this figure is solely due to the cooling system of the diesel being stretched. Pity.
Noticed also the Toyota hilux having towing capacities of 3500 and 3200kg manual and auto respectively. So, it isnt always chassis strength that determines the figure. Any other factors that limit towing capacity that you know of?
Gundog said
09:51 PM Feb 24, 2018
No Ford had different towing capacities for it PJ-PK Rangers 3t for the manual and 2.5t for the auto. If you use a genuine ford towbar the towball weight is restricted to 250kg for both transmissions.
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:15 PM Feb 24, 2018
There are a myriad of factors that can effect towing capacity, including the ones you have mentioned, plus power and gearing which can affect the GCM (Gross Combination Mass).
Cheers,
Peter
Eaglemax said
01:36 AM Feb 25, 2018
I find it extraordinary that Mazda would not raise the efficiency of its diesel in the cx3 and not drop 400kg in its TC. Plenty of camper trailers could be towed in the range of 800-1200 kg.
Mike Harding said
01:18 PM Feb 25, 2018
Eaglemax wrote:
I find it extraordinary that Mazda would not raise the efficiency of its diesel in the cx3 and not drop 400kg in its TC. Plenty of camper trailers could be towed in the range of 800-1200 kg.
I am quite sure they did a cost/benefit analysis of the changes against the market segment for that vehicle and decided it was not worth it.
In any event you are inside their specification by 50kg and, keep in mind, that 800kg spec. is based on worst case conditions; eg. someone towing 800kg uphill for an extended period on a 45C+ day with a fully loaded vehicle into a strong headwind.
Get in touch with Mazda, explain your situation and ask what their opinion is.
Eaglemax said
06:29 PM Feb 25, 2018
Thanks Mike, I'm not too worried. My future van will have a total weight loaded of 850kg. If I tow it with the Mazda I just wont load it up as much. I was curious though. I suppose its easier slapping a restriction on their diesel model than enlarging the radiator.
Mike Harding said
07:26 AM Feb 26, 2018
Eaglemax wrote:
Thanks Mike, I'm not too worried. My future van will have a total weight loaded of 850kg. If I tow it with the Mazda I just wont load it up as much. I was curious though. I suppose its easier slapping a restriction on their diesel model than enlarging the radiator.
Enlarging the radiator may mean the body shell has to be retooled and/or other items moved, it would certainly require a larger fan. It's also possible that it's more fundamental and that the waterways in the block/head cannot pass a sufficient volume of coolant in order to perform the increased cooling task in which case the whole engine would need a partial redesign and total retool.
That's the trouble with "systems" changing one thing frequently affects many others.
I don't think 850kg will trouble the Mazda.
hako said
11:01 PM Feb 26, 2018
I find it strange that in the 50's it was not uncommon for an Austin A40 with a 1200cc engine to tow a 15cwt caravan whilst my daughters 2007 Mazda 3 with a 2000cc engine cannot tow "anything" - the manufacturer states the vehicle is not designed/suitable for towing. (though I have seen a few with towbars)
Good Luck
yobarr said
10:39 AM Feb 27, 2018
hako wrote:
I find it strange that in the 50's it was not uncommon for an Austin A40 with a 1200cc engine to tow a 15cwt caravan whilst my daughters 2007 Mazda 3 with a 2000cc engine cannot tow "anything" - the manufacturer states the vehicle is not designed/suitable for towing. (though I have seen a few with towbars)
Good Luck
Hi Denis...I too remember those days,and I also remember that our A40 struggled to get to 70kmh while towing a horsefloat with one pacer in it! Those things were dangerous at any speed,but at least they were so gutless that no high speeds could be reached.Perhaps your daughters Mazda is lighter than an A40,which was,of course,rear wheel drive,and thus more suitable for towing.I also remember the fun we had with a Mk2 Zephyr towing a two horse float,but thats another story!As you know,life was so much simpler then,no rush-rush-rush,so the A40 suited! Safe towing.
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 27th of February 2018 10:40:41 AM
Eaglemax said
01:30 PM Feb 27, 2018
When looking for a convertible tug I found it hard to find a suitable car. I only wanted to tow 748kg of my home made van.
That forced me to look at cars "out of the box" and ended up with the JBA and even then had to get a towbar engineered. That's when I learned so many facets to a cars ability to tow.
My engineer pointed out it wasn't only the strength of the towbar and where it was attached, it was also the braking ability of the tug and the sub chassis's strength when rear end collisions occur. I strengthened the sub chassis using 50x10mm steel plate that went from the back of the car to the chassis over the wheel arch but in doing that it required the plate to change vertical direction and that was a weak point in such a collision. It was all strong enough to tow 850kg and I was happy.
Back to modern cars. Most cars now have a braked and unbraked towing capacity. The Hyundai has 1200kg and 500kg respectively. Why? Logic tells me its brakes. The max towball weight is 75kg. You'd think 750kg unbraked would be fine?? If it can tow braked at 1200kg then it has zero to do with the car's strength, suspension or other to tow it. I can tell you that the braking ability in the i30 is magnificent but obviously when towing its a different story for the manufacturers viewpoint.
The odd thing is that the average guy/girl that wants to own a car and tows a garden trailer to the tip 4 times a year it means that 300-500 kg unbraked capacity is half a loaded trailers worth. I'm observing now that manufacturers are catering to certain buyers. i.e. those that never take things to the tip, get everything delivered...don't own a trailer and certainly don't tow a camper trailer. These car builders might assume one buys a larger vehicle eg a CX5 instead of a CX3 to tow but the CX3 diesel buyer often knows that its an expensive trade up simply to go camper trailering once a year both in economy and purchase price. I just see a void here in modern car restrictions whereas that Austin A40 still got the family to a holiday destination.
PeterD said
04:36 PM Feb 27, 2018
hako wrote:
I find it strange that in the 50's it was not uncommon for an Austin A40 with a 1200cc engine to tow a 15cwt caravan whilst my daughters 2007 Mazda 3 with a 2000cc engine cannot tow "anything" - the manufacturer states the vehicle is not designed/suitable for towing. (though I have seen a few with towbars)
What Mazda 3 model does she have? I note in the towing guide that the 2006 - 2009 turbo petrol model is marked as being unsuitable for towing. There may be other post 2015 models in the same boat.
PeterD said
05:11 PM Feb 27, 2018
yobarr wrote:.Perhaps your daughters Mazda is lighter than an A40,which was,of course,rear wheel drive,and thus more suitable for towing.
The Austin A40 Devon weighed in at 966 kg. The Mazda 3 models are around 1200kg to 1470 kg. The initial batches or monocoque and unibody cars were lighter than those with chassis. However all the things that were considered as luxury item but now are standard plus the safety items like door intrusion panels have pushed the weight of cars way above the ancient ones.
Cheers,
Peter
I am quite sure they did a cost/benefit analysis of the changes against the market segment for that vehicle and decided it was not worth it.
In any event you are inside their specification by 50kg and, keep in mind, that 800kg spec. is based on worst case conditions; eg. someone towing 800kg uphill for an extended period on a 45C+ day with a fully loaded vehicle into a strong headwind.
Get in touch with Mazda, explain your situation and ask what their opinion is.
Enlarging the radiator may mean the body shell has to be retooled and/or other items moved, it would certainly require a larger fan. It's also possible that it's more fundamental and that the waterways in the block/head cannot pass a sufficient volume of coolant in order to perform the increased cooling task in which case the whole engine would need a partial redesign and total retool.
That's the trouble with "systems" changing one thing frequently affects many others.
I don't think 850kg will trouble the Mazda.
Good Luck
Hi Denis...I too remember those days,and I also remember that our A40 struggled to get to 70kmh while towing a horsefloat with one pacer in it! Those things were dangerous at any speed,but at least they were so gutless that no high speeds could be reached.Perhaps your daughters Mazda is lighter than an A40,which was,of course,rear wheel drive,and thus more suitable for towing.I also remember the fun we had with a Mk2 Zephyr towing a two horse float,but thats another story!As you know,life was so much simpler then,no rush-rush-rush,so the A40 suited! Safe towing.
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 27th of February 2018 10:40:41 AM
That forced me to look at cars "out of the box" and ended up with the JBA and even then had to get a towbar engineered. That's when I learned so many facets to a cars ability to tow.
My engineer pointed out it wasn't only the strength of the towbar and where it was attached, it was also the braking ability of the tug and the sub chassis's strength when rear end collisions occur. I strengthened the sub chassis using 50x10mm steel plate that went from the back of the car to the chassis over the wheel arch but in doing that it required the plate to change vertical direction and that was a weak point in such a collision. It was all strong enough to tow 850kg and I was happy.
Back to modern cars. Most cars now have a braked and unbraked towing capacity. The Hyundai has 1200kg and 500kg respectively. Why? Logic tells me its brakes. The max towball weight is 75kg. You'd think 750kg unbraked would be fine?? If it can tow braked at 1200kg then it has zero to do with the car's strength, suspension or other to tow it. I can tell you that the braking ability in the i30 is magnificent but obviously when towing its a different story for the manufacturers viewpoint.
The odd thing is that the average guy/girl that wants to own a car and tows a garden trailer to the tip 4 times a year it means that 300-500 kg unbraked capacity is half a loaded trailers worth. I'm observing now that manufacturers are catering to certain buyers. i.e. those that never take things to the tip, get everything delivered...don't own a trailer and certainly don't tow a camper trailer. These car builders might assume one buys a larger vehicle eg a CX5 instead of a CX3 to tow but the CX3 diesel buyer often knows that its an expensive trade up simply to go camper trailering once a year both in economy and purchase price. I just see a void here in modern car restrictions whereas that Austin A40 still got the family to a holiday destination.
What Mazda 3 model does she have? I note in the towing guide that the 2006 - 2009 turbo petrol model is marked as being unsuitable for towing. There may be other post 2015 models in the same boat.
The Austin A40 Devon weighed in at 966 kg. The Mazda 3 models are around 1200kg to 1470 kg. The initial batches or monocoque and unibody cars were lighter than those with chassis. However all the things that were considered as luxury item but now are standard plus the safety items like door intrusion panels have pushed the weight of cars way above the ancient ones.