We have just purchased a used 18 foot Jayco Heritage 2004. It is very clean and looks like it has be well looked after and we have not noticed any water damages. Bringing the van home we noticed that it did handle very well even when we were passed by trucks, so that made me feel good. When we drove into the drive way the back of it scraped badly. The ground clearance was OK till we took the drive way, now we are thinking of doing what we have read that a lot of people do and that is to flip the axles from over the springs to under the springs. My husband is a mechanic so he would not have a problem doing this. I have read that this could cause the van to become unstable on the road, how much I do not know. I am worried that if we modify things it will upset the van. I would like to know from anyone who has one of these vans or knows someone who does or may have had one in the past, if they can tell me if the height of the van has or was an issue on their travels and would we be just better off just altering the driveway instead.
outlaw40 said
05:44 AM Apr 8, 2018
Hi nathalie, Having done the same to a couple of vans myself i dont think you should have a problem its not a huge job as your hubby is a mechanic. Maybe do the job and take it for a run before making any other changes like lengthening the stabiliser legs, if its all good great if not just change it back . keep in mind if you have an annexe the walls and wind break under the van will need to be modified. Good luck with it .
I was awake most of the night worrying about it, as I am the worlds biggest worry wort.
I came to the same conclusion, before I could go to sleep.
dragonfly1 said
08:28 AM Apr 8, 2018
Try putting a piece of timber in the low part of your driveway to lift it that little bit
Dragonfly1
patrol03 said
11:04 AM Apr 8, 2018
A couple of planks in strategic places should solve your dilemma as suggested by Dragonfly.
villatranquilla said
12:55 PM Apr 8, 2018
Hi Nathalie - we had the same van as you with the same problem, Jayco Perth did that modification for us . Made no difference to towability at all. Also gave us better clearance when entering driveways of some servos.
Desert Dweller said
02:18 PM Apr 8, 2018
There are LOTS of caravans around with under-slung axles, we've done 80,000kms with our 17fter over the past 6 years.
We've towed in all conditions & on all surfaces, not a problem.
BAZZA44 said
05:11 PM Apr 8, 2018
Our previous van was a 21ft Jayco Westport and came from the factory set up with the axle under the springs. Went around Australia with it and many trips in the outback, never a problem.
Barry
erad said
10:32 PM Apr 8, 2018
I have replied to similar posts on this subject before, but here goes again. Theoretically, an axle flip is easy and do-able. However, there are potential problems...
I have had 2 caravans from new. Both of them scrubbed tyres badly because the wheels had toe-out. The latest van is a 1999 Jayco 16.5 ft Poptop. It scrubbed a set of tyres out in less than 18000 km. The van was still under Jayco warranty - not that that meant anything at all. Eventually, Al-Ko - the axle manufacturer supposedly straightened the axle and all was good. WRONG! I was on the 3rd set of tyres and in Kunanurra and I sent a letter to AL-Ko, asking them what the correct toe-in was supposed to be. They never replied, but I had been verbally told by them that some form of toe-in was required for stability purposes. I think that is BS. I think that the manufacturing technique is that they place a circular section (the stub axle) onto a flat surface (the main cross beam of the axle - a 45 mm square solid section) and weld it up. They put a pass of weld into the gap on the front side, and then repeat it on the rear side. Problem is that the weld shrinks as it cools and thus alters the original parallel setup they supposedly had. When the weld the second pass, they hope that shrinkage will correct the misalignment, but it won't come back fully. End result - toe-in or toe-out. As my van came from the factory, it had 11 mm toe-out. So much for Jayco quality control checking... I flipped the axle as a temporary measure but eventually took it back to Jayco and they sent it ti Al-ko for them to fix.
The axle still had about 8 mm toe-in and I scrubbed the third set of tyres. Al-Ko, to be fair to them, ultimately gave me a complete new axle, but this still has about 5 mm toe-in. To date (about 35000 km), the tyres seem to be wearing evenly, but my tyre pressure monitoring system tells me that the left tyre runs hotter than the right, and I suspect that as the tyres wear down, they will start to exhibit uneven wear.
Now, if you flip your axle, you will have to remove and refit the brake backing shield and handbrake levers. No big deal. But I would check if you have toe-in or toe-out, and if you have toe-out, flip and rotate the axle so that you always have toe-in. Tyre wear seems to be a lot less with toe-in than the opposite. So check for toe-in or toe-out and compensate as much as you can for the difference.
Nathalie said
07:15 PM Apr 10, 2018
Hi All.
thank you for all your comments and help.
My husband completed the work on the van today. He had new saddles welded on the opposite side to the original location on the axle, then relocated the axle under the springs using new U bolts all round. All went well. We neglected to measure the height at the beginning, but the van ended up being lifted about 50 mm over all.
Now we just have to plan our first road trip in the van. Looking forward to it.
Once again thank you.
Nathalie
-- Edited by Nathalie on Tuesday 10th of April 2018 07:16:09 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
03:47 PM Apr 12, 2018
Nathalie, in the past several members of this forum suggested that it was a safety issue not having the axle confined within the spring hangers if a set of U-bolts broke.
We have a Discovery Outback with the rear entry - to prevent scraping the step we now pull out in the reverse direction ie instead of turning left from our driveway, we turn right & go around the block. Perhaps we'll do your modification in the future if we keep the van (with it's weight issues).
griffo1962 said
11:39 AM Apr 13, 2018
Another thing to think about......
In Qld this is technically this is an illegal modification - unless the manufacturer offered your model with it like this.
griffo
Hylife said
10:17 PM Apr 15, 2018
First things first.
Please inform us what your tow vehicle is and what is the height to the middle of the tow ball. Next please level your van on a flat surface (tape measure each end) and inform us of the coupling height.
No good offering clearance advice without knowing this.
A family sedan is much lower than a fourby and your obvious solution for a family sedan is to enter and exit dips on an angle, one wheel at a time.
If you have a fourby, then your on-road van will probably be riding bum down. This is not safe. You need to keep the nose down to keep a constant weight on the tow ball.
Most (but not all) on-road vans us what is called an 'overlay axle'. This means there is a main steel beam to which there will be welded a smaller 'stub axle' at each end. The stub is welded to the top of the beam in order to deliberately lower the van height to match a family sedan. Stub on top is overlay. Stub on bottom is underlay.
There are only two 'safe' options for you if yours is like this. One, is to replace the overlay axle with a straight through beam axle (The beam is also the axle). This will give you a lift equal to the thickness of the current stub axles, 45-50mm, Two, is to rotate the axle assembly to make it an underlay axle. Now your stubs are on the bottom of the beam and you get double the lift of the stub thickness, eg 90-100mm)
The brake assembly must keep the magnets at the bottom so the brakes are unbolted from the axle prior to the rotation and then refitted.
It is safer to be bum high and nose down, than either exactly level, or bum down such as hooking up an overlay to a fourby.
Most overlay axles have no camber at all in the main beam but if you are concerned about alignment, take your van to a truck aligner. Less than $100 for the alignment or approx. $200 for the whole job.
Some folks unbolt their axle from inside the leaves and refit it to under the leaves. This is called changing your suspension from underslung to overslung. (The slung/sling is where the leaves are). Although there are plenty of folks who have done this, I CANNOT recommend this. If you ever break a U-bolt or leaf spring, there is nothing to capture the overslung axle and it WILL rip out from the other side and separate completely from your van. Seeing a van sitting on its chassis with its axle a hundred meters back is not something you ever want to experience.
Hi
We have just purchased a used 18 foot Jayco Heritage 2004. It is very clean and looks like it has be well looked after and we have not noticed any water damages. Bringing the van home we noticed that it did handle very well even when we were passed by trucks, so that made me feel good. When we drove into the drive way the back of it scraped badly. The ground clearance was OK till we took the drive way, now we are thinking of doing what we have read that a lot of people do and that is to flip the axles from over the springs to under the springs. My husband is a mechanic so he would not have a problem doing this. I have read that this could cause the van to become unstable on the road, how much I do not know. I am worried that if we modify things it will upset the van. I would like to know from anyone who has one of these vans or knows someone who does or may have had one in the past, if they can tell me if the height of the van has or was an issue on their travels and would we be just better off just altering the driveway instead.
Thank you outlaw40.
I was awake most of the night worrying about it, as I am the worlds biggest worry wort.
I came to the same conclusion, before I could go to sleep.
Try putting a piece of timber in the low part of your driveway to lift it that little bit
Dragonfly1
We've towed in all conditions & on all surfaces, not a problem.
Barry
I have had 2 caravans from new. Both of them scrubbed tyres badly because the wheels had toe-out. The latest van is a 1999 Jayco 16.5 ft Poptop. It scrubbed a set of tyres out in less than 18000 km. The van was still under Jayco warranty - not that that meant anything at all. Eventually, Al-Ko - the axle manufacturer supposedly straightened the axle and all was good. WRONG! I was on the 3rd set of tyres and in Kunanurra and I sent a letter to AL-Ko, asking them what the correct toe-in was supposed to be. They never replied, but I had been verbally told by them that some form of toe-in was required for stability purposes. I think that is BS. I think that the manufacturing technique is that they place a circular section (the stub axle) onto a flat surface (the main cross beam of the axle - a 45 mm square solid section) and weld it up. They put a pass of weld into the gap on the front side, and then repeat it on the rear side. Problem is that the weld shrinks as it cools and thus alters the original parallel setup they supposedly had. When the weld the second pass, they hope that shrinkage will correct the misalignment, but it won't come back fully. End result - toe-in or toe-out. As my van came from the factory, it had 11 mm toe-out. So much for Jayco quality control checking... I flipped the axle as a temporary measure but eventually took it back to Jayco and they sent it ti Al-ko for them to fix.
The axle still had about 8 mm toe-in and I scrubbed the third set of tyres. Al-Ko, to be fair to them, ultimately gave me a complete new axle, but this still has about 5 mm toe-in. To date (about 35000 km), the tyres seem to be wearing evenly, but my tyre pressure monitoring system tells me that the left tyre runs hotter than the right, and I suspect that as the tyres wear down, they will start to exhibit uneven wear.
Now, if you flip your axle, you will have to remove and refit the brake backing shield and handbrake levers. No big deal. But I would check if you have toe-in or toe-out, and if you have toe-out, flip and rotate the axle so that you always have toe-in. Tyre wear seems to be a lot less with toe-in than the opposite. So check for toe-in or toe-out and compensate as much as you can for the difference.
Hi All.
thank you for all your comments and help.
My husband completed the work on the van today.
He had new saddles welded on the opposite side to the original location on the axle, then relocated the axle under the springs using new U bolts all round.
All went well.
We neglected to measure the height at the beginning, but the van ended up being lifted about 50 mm over all.
Now we just have to plan our first road trip in the van. Looking forward to it.
Once again thank you.
Nathalie
-- Edited by Nathalie on Tuesday 10th of April 2018 07:16:09 PM
We have a Discovery Outback with the rear entry - to prevent scraping the step we now pull out in the reverse direction ie instead of turning left from our driveway, we turn right & go around the block. Perhaps we'll do your modification in the future if we keep the van (with it's weight issues).
In Qld this is technically this is an illegal modification - unless the manufacturer offered your model with it like this.
griffo
First things first.
Please inform us what your tow vehicle is and what is the height to the middle of the tow ball.
Next please level your van on a flat surface (tape measure each end) and inform us of the coupling height.
No good offering clearance advice without knowing this.
A family sedan is much lower than a fourby and your obvious solution for a family sedan is to enter and exit dips on an angle, one wheel at a time.
If you have a fourby, then your on-road van will probably be riding bum down. This is not safe. You need to keep the nose down to keep a constant weight on the tow ball.
Most (but not all) on-road vans us what is called an 'overlay axle'. This means there is a main steel beam to which there will be welded a smaller 'stub axle' at each end.
The stub is welded to the top of the beam in order to deliberately lower the van height to match a family sedan. Stub on top is overlay. Stub on bottom is underlay.
There are only two 'safe' options for you if yours is like this.
One, is to replace the overlay axle with a straight through beam axle (The beam is also the axle). This will give you a lift equal to the thickness of the current stub axles, 45-50mm,
Two, is to rotate the axle assembly to make it an underlay axle. Now your stubs are on the bottom of the beam and you get double the lift of the stub thickness, eg 90-100mm)
The brake assembly must keep the magnets at the bottom so the brakes are unbolted from the axle prior to the rotation and then refitted.
It is safer to be bum high and nose down, than either exactly level, or bum down such as hooking up an overlay to a fourby.
Most overlay axles have no camber at all in the main beam but if you are concerned about alignment, take your van to a truck aligner. Less than $100 for the alignment or approx. $200 for the whole job.
Some folks unbolt their axle from inside the leaves and refit it to under the leaves.
This is called changing your suspension from underslung to overslung. (The slung/sling is where the leaves are).
Although there are plenty of folks who have done this, I CANNOT recommend this. If you ever break a U-bolt or leaf spring, there is nothing to capture the overslung axle and it WILL rip out from the other side and separate completely from your van. Seeing a van sitting on its chassis with its axle a hundred meters back is not something you ever want to experience.