Just read an article in explore oz, a guy was saying he " Always kept his 20lt containers covered from the sun/heat ".
Reason was when they get hot and start to cool they cause condansation thus making water in the diesel.
Any one else come across this, just asking.
-- Edited by Ge on Monday 9th of April 2018 05:35:44 PM
-- Edited by Ge on Monday 9th of April 2018 05:37:12 PM
aussie_paul said
07:25 PM Apr 9, 2018
Only if there is air will condensation occur.
Aussie Paul.
hako said
08:27 PM Apr 9, 2018
Same thing happens with your fuel tank which can get very hot during the day but that never seems an issue. A plastic container also would be sealed so only a limited amount of water vapour present whereas a fuel tank gets a fresh charge of water vapour laden air as diesel ius drawn from the tank.
Above is the link to what i was reading from.
As i say i have never heard of this and had no trouble over the last 50yrs,
even in th early 70s when all our fuel was in 220lt drums no problems.
Well you learn something ne each day.
Ge
Jaahn said
09:29 PM Apr 9, 2018
Hi
I agree that covering fuel containers from the hot sun is good practice, as is squeezing the sides in when doing up the lid tight so it can expand a bit without blowing up and then contract again without drawing in any air. Plastic or metal drums. The water comes from the humidity in the air but it is a very small problem away from the wet country areas. So never pour the last dregs into your tank. As said the vehicle tank does the same thing drawing in air as it empties and during heating and cooling cycles too.
Buying water with your fuel is a much bigger risk
When I worked in PNG we always had problems with fuel in '44' gal drums. Water was a constant problem with the rain sitting in the top of the rim and being sucked into the drum when it cooled down with the rain if the bung was not tightened. I installed an overhead tank to prevent the problems. But all Jap diesels had water traps with a warning light and dual filters as standard in those days
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 9th of April 2018 09:35:57 PM
T1 Terry said
02:57 PM Apr 10, 2018
Jaahn wrote:
Hi
I agree that covering fuel containers from the hot sun is good practice, as is squeezing the sides in when doing up the lid tight so it can expand a bit without blowing up and then contract again without drawing in any air. Plastic or metal drums. The water comes from the humidity in the air but it is a very small problem away from the wet country areas. So never pour the last dregs into your tank. As said the vehicle tank does the same thing drawing in air as it empties and during heating and cooling cycles too.
Buying water with your fuel is a much bigger risk
When I worked in PNG we always had problems with fuel in '44' gal drums. Water was a constant problem with the rain sitting in the top of the rim and being sucked into the drum when it cooled down with the rain if the bung was not tightened. I installed an overhead tank to prevent the problems. But all Jap diesels had water traps with a warning light and dual filters as standard in those days
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 9th of April 2018 09:35:57 PM
Yeah, if there is water in the fuel getting it hot will boil some of it out and it will condense in the upper part of the container and drip back in. If the container lid isn't tight enogh to stop the air moving in and out then it's more likely the fuel will be the bit that comes out when the container gets hot.
I have 2 plastic 20 ltr diesel containers on the trailer and 2 steel jerry cans, no idea how I'd keep a cover over them. The one of the plastic ones sometimes needs to be syphoned into one of the steel ones because it has swelled up so much I can't get it out of the framework. The plus side is it now holds 25ltr :lol: There are products to separate the water from the diesel, don't use the petrol products because they are designed to absorb the water into the fuel. Quality filters remove the water so not much of a problem these days, well nothing like the problem of people filling the diesel tank with "Add Blu" anyway
T1 Terry
dabbler said
03:06 PM Apr 10, 2018
There is no difference to condensation in a jerry can and in an underground storage tank. Use a secondary fuel filter and a fuel additive just as you would (or should) when buying a tank of fuel in humid area.
Jaahn said
08:28 AM Apr 11, 2018
dabbler wrote:
There is no difference to condensation in a jerry can and in an underground storage tank. Use a secondary fuel filter and a fuel additive just as you would (or should) when buying a tank of fuel in humid area.
Hi
Just a comment. Fuel is stored at service stations in underground tanks partly because the temperature is lower and it does not vary so much. This limits the expansion and contraction of the air and fuel so limits the water condensation and the production of dangerous fumes. (Of course it is also safer). But drums in a trailer or on the roof are exposed to the full sun and heat up a lot and risks fuel fumes also. A simple silver tarp lashed over them seems a sensible idea. Cooking the fuel probably does not improve its performance in your engine later.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 11th of April 2018 08:31:36 AM
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:58 AM Apr 11, 2018
dabbler wrote:
There is no difference to condensation in a jerry can and in an underground storage tank. Use a secondary fuel filter and a fuel additive just as you would (or should) when buying a tank of fuel in humid area.
There is a lot of difference.
A sealed jerry is just that - SEALED. If it is not sealed, then I agree, but decent plastic jerries certainly are, that is why they get 'blown' in hot weather. This is not a problem because it is constrained by the vapour pressure and relieving that pressure will not be helpful.
Storage tanks (including the ones in your vehicle) are vented.
I agree that the use of a water trap is well advised. I would not bother with the biocide unless the vehicle is remaining in storage for some time. That is when you will have a problem.
Cheers,
Peter
T1 Terry said
02:18 PM Apr 11, 2018
Biocides for diesel are for a different problem. Diesel will grow wax strings in cooler weather and grow algae when the temp varies in fuel stored for any length of time. The algae growth is a demon once it starts, biocides might kill it but the strings remain and block pipes and filters. Just because the tank is regularly refilled will not slow the algae growth once it starts, so best avoided at all costs. We had an attack at 2 different bus yards where it grounded all the diesel fleet, one in Tasmania and the other in Parramatta, very different climates, so cold and wet has nothing to do with it starting.
Just read an article in explore oz, a guy was saying he " Always kept his 20lt containers covered from the sun/heat ".
Reason was when they get hot and start to cool they cause condansation thus making water in the diesel.
Any one else come across this, just asking.
-- Edited by Ge on Monday 9th of April 2018 05:35:44 PM
-- Edited by Ge on Monday 9th of April 2018 05:37:12 PM
Only if there is air will condensation occur.
Aussie Paul.
Regards
Above is the link to what i was reading from.
As i say i have never heard of this and had no trouble over the last 50yrs,
even in th early 70s when all our fuel was in 220lt drums no problems.
Well you learn something ne each day.
Ge
Hi
I agree that covering fuel containers from the hot sun is good practice, as is squeezing the sides in when doing up the lid tight so it can expand a bit without blowing up and then contract again without drawing in any air. Plastic or metal drums. The water comes from the humidity in the air but it is a very small problem away from the wet country areas. So never pour the last dregs into your tank. As said the vehicle tank does the same thing drawing in air as it empties and during heating and cooling cycles too.
Buying water with your fuel is a much bigger risk
When I worked in PNG we always had problems with fuel in '44' gal drums. Water was a constant problem with the rain sitting in the top of the rim and being sucked into the drum when it cooled down with the rain if the bung was not tightened. I installed an overhead tank to prevent the problems. But all Jap diesels had water traps with a warning light and dual filters as standard in those days
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 9th of April 2018 09:35:57 PM
Yeah, if there is water in the fuel getting it hot will boil some of it out and it will condense in the upper part of the container and drip back in. If the container lid isn't tight enogh to stop the air moving in and out then it's more likely the fuel will be the bit that comes out when the container gets hot.
I have 2 plastic 20 ltr diesel containers on the trailer and 2 steel jerry cans, no idea how I'd keep a cover over them. The one of the plastic ones sometimes needs to be syphoned into one of the steel ones because it has swelled up so much I can't get it out of the framework. The plus side is it now holds 25ltr :lol: There are products to separate the water from the diesel, don't use the petrol products because they are designed to absorb the water into the fuel. Quality filters remove the water so not much of a problem these days, well nothing like the problem of people filling the diesel tank with "Add Blu" anyway
T1 Terry
Hi
Just a comment. Fuel is stored at service stations in underground tanks partly because the temperature is lower and it does not vary so much. This limits the expansion and contraction of the air and fuel so limits the water condensation and the production of dangerous fumes. (Of course it is also safer). But drums in a trailer or on the roof are exposed to the full sun and heat up a lot and risks fuel fumes also. A simple silver tarp lashed over them seems a sensible idea. Cooking the fuel probably does not improve its performance in your engine later.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 11th of April 2018 08:31:36 AM
There is a lot of difference.
A sealed jerry is just that - SEALED. If it is not sealed, then I agree, but decent plastic jerries certainly are, that is why they get 'blown' in hot weather. This is not a problem because it is constrained by the vapour pressure and relieving that pressure will not be helpful.
Storage tanks (including the ones in your vehicle) are vented.
I agree that the use of a water trap is well advised. I would not bother with the biocide unless the vehicle is remaining in storage for some time. That is when you will have a problem.
Cheers,
Peter
Biocides for diesel are for a different problem. Diesel will grow wax strings in cooler weather and grow algae when the temp varies in fuel stored for any length of time. The algae growth is a demon once it starts, biocides might kill it but the strings remain and block pipes and filters. Just because the tank is regularly refilled will not slow the algae growth once it starts, so best avoided at all costs. We had an attack at 2 different bus yards where it grounded all the diesel fleet, one in Tasmania and the other in Parramatta, very different climates, so cold and wet has nothing to do with it starting.
T1 Terry