Adding two stroke oil to diesels. Technical test article !
Jaahn said
09:55 AM Apr 10, 2018
Hi
There have been suggestions that adding two stroke oil to diesel tanks might be a good thing. Here is a test report I came across which tests the idea and a full report, by a technical organisation, Sasol Southern Africa Energy.
They do not recommend it. But read the whole report before you jump in, or at least the summary, would be my recommendation Any competing reports which recommend it ??
CONCLUSIONS. Based on the results of this study, the following conclusions are drawn:
At a 200:1 volumetric blending ratio, 2-stroke oil has a negligible effect on diesel lubricity.
All diesel fuel sold in South Africa has to meet the SANS 342:2014 lubricity specification to ensure the proper protection of diesel fuel pumps and injector systems.
The low sulphur diesel products sold by Sasol contain lubricity improver additives which are far more effective than 2-stroke oil.
At a 200:1 volumetric blending ratio, 2-stroke oil has a negligible effect on diesel cetane number.
No measurable effect on all other regulated diesel properties was measured at a 200:1 dose of 2-stroke oil in diesel.
2-stroke oil can contain around 16ppm zinc, or higher depending on the formulation and batch.
Trace amounts of zinc in diesel are known to rapidly accelerate injector nozzle deposits.
Engine test results show that a 200:1 blend of 2-stroke oil in diesel results in a 2% loss of engine power in a 16 hour test due to injector fouling, a risk that would apply to any common rail diesel engine, but could also worsen fouling in older engines.
Vehicles fitted with a diesel particulate filter (DPF) in the exhaust system could experience reduced DPF life due to the collection of ash and metal based contaminants in the filter over time with the continued use of 2-stroke oil.
T1 Terry said
03:20 PM Apr 10, 2018
Since low sulphur diesel was introduced in Aust the fuel companies add a percentage of bio diesel to act as a lubricant. The older type diesel engines wouldn't suffer a problem with oil mixed in the diesel fuel because the tolerance wasn't nearly as close as the single rail stuff. It was once a common practice for long haul owner drivers to empty the used sump oil in the fuel tank, waste not want not :lol:
I wouldn't suggest such a practice with a particulate filtered exhaust system, none too sure about the zinc fouling injectors though, I guess it would depend on the injector type. The pressures are so high in single rail injection systems contaminants like water or dust would do far more damage than zinc particles in the oil, 16 parts per million in a mix ratio of 200:1 in the fuel makes the zinc concentrate extremely small.
I wonder if South African diesel is different to Australian diesel? But then Australian diesel is not even that is the same blend depending on the season and location so doing any sort of comparison between fuels could be completely meaningless unless apples were compared with apples so .......
Remember back in the days when adding a shot of Redex in the fuel was supposed to do wonders for the engine .... I wonder how well that would stand up to modern lab testing procedures
T1 Terry
Ron-D said
03:25 PM Apr 10, 2018
I was giving serious thought to adding two stroke too the mix, as several people I have spoken too have had very good results with using it as an additive,but when others do there tec test and there been a couple on the net that have agreed with what Jaahn has writen makes you wonder if its worth the risk...
patrol03 said
06:59 PM Apr 10, 2018
Yep,diesel has certainly changed over the years and I believe not for the better in the power and maintenance stakes.We used to use diesel to wash up parts, clean dirty hands, degrease the shop floor and a myriad of other uses.....sadly not any more. We are now at the mercy of the producers of additives to keep our engines clean and operable to meet the ridiculous emission crap.A volcano eruption in Indonesia,which seems to happen fairly frequently, produces more greenhouse gas than 20 years worth of world emission savings.
jontee said
11:07 AM Apr 11, 2018
G`day,
Baileys Diesel Group carried out testing of the addition of straight mineral 2 stroke oil to diesel and the results were quite different to the above. If interested check out their website.
Cheers,
Jontee
Bagmaker said
12:38 PM Apr 11, 2018
there is a lot of difference between old diesels and new ones. Old threads on other forums tended toward a positive outcome on old donks, a negative for new ones
Jaahn said
02:49 PM Apr 11, 2018
jontee wrote:
G`day, Baileys Diesel Group carried out testing of the addition of straight mineral 2 stroke oil to diesel and the results were quite different to the above. If interested check out their website. Cheers, Jontee
Hi Jontee
Thanks for that reference. As far as I can see they only recommended it for a specific application. Read it yourself people. I did not find any other references to it on the site.
MY Summary; Vehicles equipped with Bosch, Delphi, or even Seamans(?) fuel systems generally dont need it. Therefore, your unlikely to see a significant change in engine performance or noise with the use of 2-stroke in diesel. However, if you have a 2005-2012 Denso Common Rail equipped system, your vehicle will most likely notice significant changes. You need 2-stroke premixed oil.
Cloak said
03:11 PM Apr 11, 2018
Screw diesel I'm staying with petrol and gas.
patrol03 said
07:11 PM Apr 11, 2018
Well I really don't think we can solve the diesel problem.I notice that on the continent the change is back to petrol.If you look at the diesel vehicles in production now, to meet emissions standards they are reducing engine capacities,and making other changes to electronics and compression ratios to meet new standards. Where to next? Wholesale fuel production and markets dictate all in the wash-up .
Ron-D said
08:20 AM Apr 12, 2018
patrol03 wrote:
Well I really don't think we can solve the diesel problem.I notice that on the continent the change is back to petrol.If you look at the diesel vehicles in production now, to meet emissions standards they are reducing engine capacities,and making other changes to electronics and compression ratios to meet new standards. Where to next? Wholesale fuel production and markets dictate all in the wash-up .
If thats true and no dought your probably right Patrol sounds like bad news for towing,the heavy vehicle industry will suffer ,I cant imagine huge trucks with low capacit diesil engines ,whats the answer gas guzzling Petrol engines...
T1 Terry said
05:04 PM Apr 12, 2018
Hybrid electric will be the start of the revolution, but eventually it will be electric with some sort of fuel powered turbine driving a back up alternator for the climb over the big hills and getting the whole rig rolling. The days of the piston engine might be coming to an end though, unless they actually get the ceramic cyl and piston engine from the development lab and into production at a better price than hybrid electric. Maybe even a Wankel ceramic rotor driven alternator that can be run at its peak efficiency rpm and load. A triple rotor or quad rotor in a truck to drive the alternator mounted where the gearbox is now and electric motors driving each wheel set. Think of a B double, it has 2 steer wheels, 4 drive wheels on the prime mover, 6 wheels on the B trailer and 6 wheels on the A trailer, so it has 18 drive wheels all together. That only requires around 30 horse power per wheel set to get the same 600 horsepower the average B double prime mover has these days but evenly spread through the whole rig. An electric motor has peak torque from stationary so no need for a gearbox at all, so all round a better spread of weight requiring a chassis not near as solid or heavy as a 600 HP prime mover.
We already have hybrid 4 x 4 vehicles that can tow light weight vans so not a big stretch to build ones that can move a 3.5 tonne van.
G`day,
What about the original hybrid ? The Diesel Electric Train !
Cheers,
Jontee
deverall11 said
09:55 AM Apr 15, 2018
This subject has been thrashed to its natural death. A considerable number of Landcruiser 200 series owners add 2S/T to their fuel and have done so for many thousands of kms
with no ill effect. In fact all positive.
So if you do not want to add 2S/T oil to your fuel don't. If you think it's good, do so.
End of rant
Hi
There have been suggestions that adding two stroke oil to diesel tanks might be a good thing. Here is a test report I came across which tests the idea and a full report, by a technical organisation, Sasol Southern Africa Energy.
They do not recommend it. But read the whole report before you jump in, or at least the summary, would be my recommendation
Any competing reports which recommend it ??
Jaahn
www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke-oil-in-diesel-technical-study.php
CONCLUSIONS. Based on the results of this study, the following conclusions are drawn:
I wouldn't suggest such a practice with a particulate filtered exhaust system, none too sure about the zinc fouling injectors though, I guess it would depend on the injector type. The pressures are so high in single rail injection systems contaminants like water or dust would do far more damage than zinc particles in the oil, 16 parts per million in a mix ratio of 200:1 in the fuel makes the zinc concentrate extremely small.
I wonder if South African diesel is different to Australian diesel? But then Australian diesel is not even that is the same blend depending on the season and location so doing any sort of comparison between fuels could be completely meaningless unless apples were compared with apples so .......
Remember back in the days when adding a shot of Redex in the fuel was supposed to do wonders for the engine .... I wonder how well that would stand up to modern lab testing procedures
T1 Terry
I was giving serious thought to adding two stroke too the mix, as several people I have spoken too have had very good results with using it as an additive,but when others do there tec test and there been a couple on the net that have agreed with what Jaahn has writen makes you wonder if its worth the risk...
Baileys Diesel Group carried out testing of the addition of straight mineral 2 stroke oil to diesel and the results were quite different to the above. If interested check out their website.
Cheers,
Jontee
Hi Jontee
Thanks for that reference. As far as I can see they only recommended it for a specific application. Read it yourself people. I did not find any other references to it on the site.
Jaahn
https://www.baileysdiesel.com/on-highway/truth-adding-two-stroke-oil-diesel-modern-common-rail-engines/
MY Summary; Vehicles equipped with Bosch, Delphi, or even Seamans(?) fuel systems generally dont need it. Therefore, your unlikely to see a significant change in engine performance or noise with the use of 2-stroke in diesel. However, if you have a 2005-2012 Denso Common Rail equipped system, your vehicle will most likely notice significant changes. You need 2-stroke premixed oil.
If thats true and no dought your probably right Patrol sounds like bad news for towing,the heavy vehicle industry will suffer ,I cant imagine huge trucks with low capacit diesil engines ,whats the answer gas guzzling Petrol engines...
We already have hybrid 4 x 4 vehicles that can tow light weight vans so not a big stretch to build ones that can move a 3.5 tonne van.
T1 Terry
Gday...
Electric car .... towing a van...
It is only a matter of time
Cheers - John
What about the original hybrid ? The Diesel Electric Train !
Cheers,
Jontee
with no ill effect. In fact all positive.
So if you do not want to add 2S/T oil to your fuel don't. If you think it's good, do so.
End of rant