Turning key to start and nothing happens, thought it might not be in Park properly, no such luck. It doesn't even try to engage starter. Battery is showing 11.98V.
Would that sort of fault show up on an OBD11 reader?
Aussie Paul.
johnhgh said
02:29 PM May 5, 2018
11.98 is quite flat, try charging the battery.
patrol03 said
02:36 PM May 5, 2018
Had a similar experience with my 4.8 Patrol some time ago.Brushes in the starter were were worn out. Local dealer wanted nearly $500 for new one. The local Auto elec supplied me with a set of new Hitachi brushes for $10. An hour and a half later she was a goer. Your battery sounds very low Paul.Is it very old? An underperforming starter may have been depleting your battery. Check with a multimeter or test light with a charged battery to see if you have current at the starter solenoid when the starter is pressed. If you have current and no start then the starter needs looking at. Hope this helps you Paul. Cheers Ian
-- Edited by patrol03 on Saturday 5th of May 2018 02:39:33 PM
erad said
04:03 PM May 5, 2018
Even at 11.9 Volts, you should hear the start motor solenoid click in when you turn the key. It sounds as if the starter has died. If you have a fuel leak from the filter, it invariably drips onto the starter motor and this is no good for long life. Maybe this has happened? Maybe the brushes are worn out.
First thing to check - take the small wire off the solenoid connection and get someone to turn the key to start. See if you have 12V at that point. If you don't, there is your problem. If you do (and this is the most likely case), it is the starter motor which s stuffed.
rockylizard said
04:25 PM May 5, 2018
Gday...
I can't talk for the Pajero, or any other vehicle for that matter, but I know that my Discovery 3 will not start if the battery is lower than 12v - 11.98V for instance.
Apparently, not enuff grunt to kick the starter over AND kick up all the pooter stuff at the same time.
Dead, buried, cremated as one wise politician once said.
This can happen if the vehicle is left for a long period of time - more than a week in my case - without starting and running to charge battery. Little onboard electronics draw power even when vehicle is off apparently.
Battery needs to be re-charged and then properly checked ... if OK after a charge all is good. However, battery may need to be pensioned off and a newer, sparkier model introduced.
cheers - John
aussie_paul said
05:24 PM May 5, 2018
Jumper leads from another vehicle with engine running hasn't helped. Battery tested a couple of months ago and all good.
When previous battery was down it would still engage starter BUT not enough to turn the engine over for starting.
I can hear a relay click in under the bonnet when activating the start switch.
Gonna have to find where the starter is and see if I can squirm under to check 1) power to solenoid, and 2) remove starter if required.
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Saturday 5th of May 2018 05:28:08 PM
hako said
05:40 PM May 5, 2018
If you can locate the starter and have the room, try hitting it on the side of the solenoid with a hammer - this is the old method of freeing the starter solenoid when stuck. Sometimes if you can see it from the top you can use a length of water pipe to jar it. Starters are one piece of equipment on motor cars that is still old technology....not much progress there.
(the clicking noise MAY be from either the starter solenoid or the starter relay!)
might give you some ideas. New starter genuine starter motors for Pajero's are pretty expensive about $1,200.00. Might pick one up at the wreckers, aftermarket non genuine or get a sparkie to rewire it if its required. But your battery should have a bit more grunt to it than what you've got I recon. What I found in the Pajero's is the standard size lasts or about 3 years max especially if it is the standard size. They just haven't got enough cranking amps. Cant help re advice on showing up on the OBD2 gauge.
might give you some ideas. New starter genuine starter motors for Pajero's are pretty expensive about $1,200.00. Might pick one up at the wreckers, aftermarket non genuine or get a sparkie to rewire it if its required. But your battery should have a bit more grunt to it than what you've got I recon. What I found in the Pajero's is the standard size lasts or about 3 years max especially if it is the standard size. They just haven't got enough cranking amps. Cant help re advice on showing up on the OBD2 gauge.
Would like to know where the starter is and possibly a link to removing it before I get underneath. Too dark out now for my old eyes.
Aussie Paul.
Aus-Kiwi said
08:37 PM May 5, 2018
Try another well known good battery first . Check ALL battery connections . If your battery is dead ? Another jumping it , even with alternator ? Wonât help !! On a Diesel engine . Low voltage from battery wont pull in pre engage solinoid properly . It engages BEFORE starter motor turns , thereâs contacts on pre engaged solenoid to activate starter motor .
landy said
10:25 PM May 5, 2018
Dont trust jumper leads I had a Kia Sorento that the battery failed on and no amount of jumping would turn it over even with two batteries in line for a bit of extra kick and they were heavy good quality leads, I thought the starter had died but a night on the battery charger had every thing back to normal. Landy
dogbox said
10:13 AM May 6, 2018
time to holler for a marshal????
erad said
10:37 AM May 6, 2018
The Pajero Diesel starter motor is on the Left side of the vehicle, just next to the firewall. It is under the fuel filter. Failure of the starter motor is not that common, but it does happen. First thing I would do is to tap the motor with a hammer whilst someone is turning the key. If that fails, try a set of jumper leads. If it goes with the jumper leads, the flattery is bat. Less than 12 V is not good, but it should be able to start the engine if it is not too low. I think your starter motor is on the waay out or has already gone.
Jaahn said
01:21 PM May 6, 2018
Hi Paul
Sorry about your problems. But under 12V is a flat cranking battery. Most jump start leads are crap and will not start a diesel. I have a couple of welding leads that work OK. But if the original battery is dead it is hard to start a diesel with any jump method.
I would not attack the starter till you prove it is the problem. Charge the battery with a solar system or another car with jumper leads etc for long enough to show it is well charged. So it holds more than 12.6 V 10 minutes after not charging. Then monitor the actual battery voltage at the terminals while attempting to start it. If the voltage stays as high as before then the starter is not doing anything. If the voltage drops to single figures less than 8 or worse as the starter tries to kick in, replace battery.
Starter do fail but prove it is faulty first or you might waste the effort to get it out and in again.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 6th of May 2018 01:25:36 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 6th of May 2018 01:30:18 PM
aussie_paul said
01:27 PM May 6, 2018
erad wrote:
The Pajero Diesel starter motor is on the Left side of the vehicle, just next to the firewall. It is under the fuel filter. Failure of the starter motor is not that common, but it does happen. First thing I would do is to tap the motor with a hammer whilst someone is turning the key. If that fails, try a set of jumper leads. If it goes with the jumper leads, the flattery is bat. Less than 12 V is not good, but it should be able to start the engine if it is not too low. I think your starter motor is on the waay out or has already gone.
All noted erad, I can see it now, and as I had an injector leak for several months, the Pajero forum says starter at fault. I jumpered Eril's car to it and the amps dropped back pretty quickly so I know, as I thought, the battery is ok. The solenoid is pulling in and a couple of times tried to turn the engine. So, starter motor brushes are probably stuffed.
A job for when we get back from New Caledonia on the 18th. Flying there tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for the input.
Aussie Paul.
patrol03 said
02:18 PM May 6, 2018
Correct. That's what I indicated earlier. By the way Hako, starters these days are not old technology, in fact the gearing system on them is similar to an auto trans with an annulus and sun gear. They are also smaller, lighter and in many cases a throw away item unless you know how to repair them. Older model starters in BMC Ford GMH etc and 30 years ago were heavy, direct drive and at start could draw 400 amps when activated.Today,much smaller, lighter construction geared and not much bigger in many cases than a windscreen wiper motor and of course do not draw as much power.
See your local auto elec Paul. He may be able to do it up for you or even have a changeover. Good luck anyway.
PeterD said
10:58 AM May 7, 2018
Do the dash lights dim when you attempt to start? If they don't then it means the power is not getting to the commutator. Extend your meter leads with clip leads and use the meter to measure the battery voltage when you attempt to start. Then attach one lead to the starter motor input and the other to the starter motor earth. Observe the voltage when you attempt to start. If it is not slightly lower than the battery voltage then you have a starter motor or battery problem. If you do have a significant voltage difference then you have a problem in the lead or earthing.
Joda said
09:49 PM May 9, 2018
Check battery earth lead , make sure connections are GOOD.
mixo said
09:27 AM May 10, 2018
So what was it in the end?
Hate it when there isn't a happy ending.
mixo
aussie_paul said
01:57 PM May 10, 2018
mixo wrote:
So what was it in the end?
Hate it when there isn't a happy ending.
mixo
Not sure yet mixo as we are in New Caledonia until 18th. A job for when I get home. Will definately report happenings after that.
Aussie Paul.
Sarco Harris said
08:41 PM May 15, 2018
Typrically the 3.2 DiD Pajero starter motors get gunged up with muck. As they are directly below the fuel filter, if a mechanic does not take care when replacing the filter, diesel is slopped on/into the starter motor, which then over time gums up with dirt, dust, mud etc and slowly grinds (literally) to a halt. Often it is possible to successfully remove it, pull it down, clean and reassemble. Sometimes bearings may need to be replaced also.
-- Edited by Sarco Harris on Tuesday 15th of May 2018 08:42:01 PM
aussie_paul said
05:47 PM May 23, 2018
Well, rang racv and was told that they would transport Pajero to my mechanic, so she put me through to roadside assist who told me NO, free to their depot or $95 to my mechanic!!!!! Left and right hands not connected it seems.
I got a painter mates heat gun and warmed the starter up to try and soften the internal gunk, then belted (technical word) it with a 1 meter length of 35 x 12 mm steel. Waited for the glow plugs and she burst into life. Rang my mechanic to clear the yard as I was on my way.
Turning key to start and nothing happens, thought it might not be in Park properly, no such luck. It doesn't even try to engage starter. Battery is showing 11.98V.
Would that sort of fault show up on an OBD11 reader?
Aussie Paul.
Had a similar experience with my 4.8 Patrol some time ago.Brushes in the starter were were worn out. Local dealer wanted nearly $500 for new one. The local Auto elec supplied me with a set of new Hitachi brushes for $10. An hour and a half later she was a goer. Your battery sounds very low Paul.Is it very old? An underperforming starter may have been depleting your battery. Check with a multimeter or test light with a charged battery to see if you have current at the starter solenoid when the starter is pressed. If you have current and no start then the starter needs looking at. Hope this helps you Paul. Cheers Ian
-- Edited by patrol03 on Saturday 5th of May 2018 02:39:33 PM
First thing to check - take the small wire off the solenoid connection and get someone to turn the key to start. See if you have 12V at that point. If you don't, there is your problem. If you do (and this is the most likely case), it is the starter motor which s stuffed.
Gday...
I can't talk for the Pajero, or any other vehicle for that matter, but I know that my Discovery 3 will not start if the battery is lower than 12v - 11.98V for instance.
Apparently, not enuff grunt to kick the starter over AND kick up all the pooter stuff at the same time.
Dead, buried, cremated as one wise politician once said.
This can happen if the vehicle is left for a long period of time - more than a week in my case - without starting and running to charge battery. Little onboard electronics draw power even when vehicle is off apparently.
Battery needs to be re-charged and then properly checked ... if OK after a charge all is good. However, battery may need to be pensioned off and a newer, sparkier model introduced.
cheers - John
Jumper leads from another vehicle with engine running hasn't helped. Battery tested a couple of months ago and all good.
When previous battery was down it would still engage starter BUT not enough to turn the engine over for starting.
I can hear a relay click in under the bonnet when activating the start switch.
Gonna have to find where the starter is and see if I can squirm under to check 1) power to solenoid, and 2) remove starter if required.
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Saturday 5th of May 2018 05:28:08 PM
(the clicking noise MAY be from either the starter solenoid or the starter relay!)
Good Luck
Aussie Paul, have a look at the Pajero 4x4 club of Vic website & do a bit of a search https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/index.php
might give you some ideas. New starter genuine starter motors for Pajero's are pretty expensive about $1,200.00. Might pick one up at the wreckers, aftermarket non genuine or get a sparkie to rewire it if its required. But your battery should have a bit more grunt to it than what you've got I recon. What I found in the Pajero's is the standard size lasts or about 3 years max especially if it is the standard size. They just haven't got enough cranking amps. Cant help re advice on showing up on the OBD2 gauge.
Thanks skins I am searching https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/index.php at the moment.
Would like to know where the starter is and possibly a link to removing it before I get underneath. Too dark out now for my old eyes.
Aussie Paul.
Landy
Hi Paul
Sorry about your problems. But under 12V is a flat cranking battery. Most jump start leads are crap and will not start a diesel. I have a couple of welding leads that work OK. But if the original battery is dead it is hard to start a diesel with any jump method.
I would not attack the starter till you prove it is the problem. Charge the battery with a solar system or another car with jumper leads etc for long enough to show it is well charged. So it holds more than 12.6 V 10 minutes after not charging. Then monitor the actual battery voltage at the terminals while attempting to start it. If the voltage stays as high as before then the starter is not doing anything. If the voltage drops to single figures less than 8 or worse as the starter tries to kick in, replace battery.
Starter do fail but prove it is faulty first
or you might waste the effort to get it out and in again.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 6th of May 2018 01:25:36 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 6th of May 2018 01:30:18 PM
All noted erad, I can see it now, and as I had an injector leak for several months, the Pajero forum says starter at fault. I jumpered Eril's car to it and the amps dropped back pretty quickly so I know, as I thought, the battery is ok. The solenoid is pulling in and a couple of times tried to turn the engine. So, starter motor brushes are probably stuffed.
A job for when we get back from New Caledonia on the 18th. Flying there tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for the input.
Aussie Paul.
See your local auto elec Paul. He may be able to do it up for you or even have a changeover. Good luck anyway.
Hate it when there isn't a happy ending.
mixo
Not sure yet mixo as we are in New Caledonia until 18th. A job for when I get home. Will definately report happenings after that.
Aussie Paul.
Typrically the 3.2 DiD Pajero starter motors get gunged up with muck. As they are directly below the fuel filter, if a mechanic does not take care when replacing the filter, diesel is slopped on/into the starter motor, which then over time gums up with dirt, dust, mud etc and slowly grinds (literally) to a halt. Often it is possible to successfully remove it, pull it down, clean and reassemble. Sometimes bearings may need to be replaced also.
-- Edited by Sarco Harris on Tuesday 15th of May 2018 08:42:01 PM
Well, rang racv and was told that they would transport Pajero to my mechanic, so she put me through to roadside assist who told me NO, free to their depot or $95 to my mechanic!!!!! Left and right hands not connected it seems.
I got a painter mates heat gun and warmed the starter up to try and soften the internal gunk, then belted (technical word) it with a 1 meter length of 35 x 12 mm steel. Waited for the glow plugs and she burst into life.
Rang my mechanic to clear the yard as I was on my way.
Aussie Paul.