lpg dirty gas in 9kg bottels for caravan 3 way fridge operation ?? have had a problem with my 90 litre elecrolux
happy bob said
09:55 PM May 14, 2018
ok have had the burner all apart cleaned jet & all parts over & over good blue strong flame but gives off a un burnt gas smell same smell as comes out of the top exhaust discharge pipe on the van ..so after many opinions & talked about some felloe caravaners suggested the subject of when a bottle gets low certain residue in the gas mix does not burn well hence the smell???? have contacted kleenheat in wa re this & was told never of this before??have had the van 8 years & has been a good unit up untill recent times chimney is clean as well so have fitted 3 fans up top on the out let to turn on if needed ?? oh the bottle in use is half full @ the moment ..ok any input would be good thank u cheers .....h/b..8
EJP said
11:33 PM May 14, 2018
happy bob,
gas bottles rarely get dirt etc in them, but if so, corrosion due to moisture etc should be caught in the filter in the bottle regulator. Normally a screen type filter in the inlet to the regulator. A blocked filter will result in a reduced gas flow combined with a reduced flame at the jet, resulting in poor performance. Gas jets can suffer erosion or blockages due to contamination in the pipework over time, which can result in bad combustion despite giving the appearance of a good flame. If you are getting a gas smell after cleaning the jet I would suggest the jet is damaged and requires replacement. If the regulator filter is dirty, change the gas bottle and clean the filter. Depending on the regulator/filter assembly you may have to change the regulator. If it is clean, blow through the gas line to clear any corrosion/dirt etc. A further check of a blockage is to check the flame at the gas jets on the stove to ascertain if they are burning correctly. In my opinion the smell indicates a faulty burner which would require replacement.
Regards EJP
Aus-Kiwi said
06:24 AM May 15, 2018
Not sure if it was dirty gas in my case or build up of oil or wax over the years . I got a bottle in WA ( Perth) which seemed to be heavy when M/T ? Seemed to last about half normal use also . After that I had to clean jet , replaced regulator, flex hose as maintenance., This bottle lasted a week . While normally itâs 3 weeks . We stayed in camping ground with 240v also . So I suspect the bottle was defective ?
patrol03 said
12:00 PM May 15, 2018
It would be a good idea Bob,to check that your regulator is above the level of the bottle outlets. The problem you describe can be caused by bad installation at build and take a long time to accumulate gas impurities in the appliance. Yes gas is dirty and you may need to replace your regulator. I am sure you will get it sorted.
happy bob said
12:17 PM May 15, 2018
hi newbie..yes new regulator fitted..pipes blown thru..2 gas jets & burner unit cleaned & washed in hot soapy water & trialed both units same result ..have removed gas bottle & turned upside down & shaked up refitted ...a improvement noted ....but the best result in smell reduction has come from when i washed the burner unit & re clean again the 8 very.very small holes..again doing better........ on the burner unit around the larger hole burner out let ?? does that make sense ?? im doing every thing i can to save having having to go 12 volt/240 replacement which is my prefeard option going forward ok thank u ...h/b..8
happy bob said
12:34 PM May 15, 2018
yes patrol.3..& guru....fitted new regulator & it s above the bottles...also have good gas flow to the stove & oven...no more i see & hear on this comes back to unburnt type smell like ive said before like out of the chimmney exhaust smell.. bought my first van a 1963 baravan in 1985 & still have it & the one here with the problen is a jayco 1998 westport ,20 years old & has been a good unit have 400 watts on the roof of both vans also plus 3 batteries in each thank u again folks h/b..8
happy bob said
12:48 PM May 15, 2018
yes ..ejp...thank u i hear what u say ...am getting some good in put from all u know after over 35 years playing with vans u would think a dipstick like me would be on too it & as most on here would of come across fellow travelers have these probs on the road & can destroy there holiday & @ times are unable to get sorted re food storage refridge ration ,,,ok cheers again ...h/b..8
PeterInSa said
02:54 PM May 15, 2018
Re (If you are getting a gas smell after cleaning the jet I would suggest the jet is damaged and requires replacement.)
My understanding is that Jets can only be cleaned with cleaning fluid or Compressed air, using a pin or such like can alter the amount of gas thru the jet ( hence the gas smell). These jets can be replaced but ensure that its replaced with the same type/model. I think the ID number is stamped on the jet.
Peter
Aus-Kiwi said
07:18 PM May 15, 2018
No expert here on gas .. I used 1 strand copper wire from 2.5mm elect wire . Softer less chance of damaging jet .
happy bob said
01:03 AM May 16, 2018
hi peteinsa... yes no i learnt my lesson early in the piece ...back in the day i thought that i could improve the fridges performance ....so what did i do?? i got the smallest drill bit &opened up the jet hole ..ha ha ..it went off like a ...bunson burner.....oh deer not good so yes hot soapy water &air does the job for me me thinks both jets are ok .....i see on a r.v site on ebay the jet ..[helmet]..are 4 sale for $74 out rages ...how can that be ??? ok peteinsa ..south oz i suspect ...like the others thank u for your advice ...h/b8
swamp said
04:43 PM May 16, 2018
HI
The filters in Auto LPG blockup with black dirt type substance . In a van the regulator would cop most of the dirt biuld up . Check lpg pressures at burner also .
Tony Bev said
09:05 PM May 16, 2018
Like Aus Kiwi, I managed to get gunk in my regulator, I was also not sure if it was a dirty gas bottle, or something which had developed over time
It certainly spoiled an east to west return trip over the Nullarbor, as not every place sold ice
Hylife said
10:23 PM May 21, 2018
Auto gas has a bittering agent added to the gas.
Cooking LPG and CNG should NOT have any bittering agent smell.
If you have a pungent smell either from the unburnt gas of from the exhaust then you are being sold the wrong gas.
Essentially the gas is almost the same (100% propane cooking/sometimes a little butane for autogas in cold climates) but because of volumes bought, autogas is sold for half the price.
At 70 cents a litre, a 9kg bottle holds approx. 17.6 litres or $12 of gas (1.96litres per kg), (a 8.5kg fill saves the swap n go companies almost $1 per bottle).
Cooking gas whilst essentially the same is often sold for $1.20 a litre or way more from service stations using swap n go, or a complete rip-off from some places that charge you up to $40 ($2.20 per litre) for refilling your own bottle.
T1 Terry said
04:18 PM May 22, 2018
Try adjusting the air/gas ratio by either adjusting the air restrictor or moving the jet in or out of the burner for those units that have a fixed air inlet orifice. You are looking for a well formed light blue cone inside the blue flame, too much air and cone splutters changing height rapidly, not enough air and the light blue cone is fluffy and extends a long way into the darker blue flame.
Any yellow or white in the light blue flame or darker blue flame indicates contaminants in the gas such as butane, isobutane, some hexthanes and all sorts of rubbish gases that are a by product of crude oil cracking. These gases are often dumped in the Autogas mix because they can, there are no hard and fast rules about what gases make up autogas.
What you should be getting from a bottle swap or bottle refill is pure propane, if you see the bottom area of the bottle starting to freeze up and the gas pressure drops it's a fairly good sign there is mostly butane and other rubbish gases remaining in the bottle because the propane boils off at a much lower temperature (-32*C) than butane (0.5*C). A commonly seen effect of this much higher boiling point for butane is the throw away canisters used in little potable stoves and the humble cigarette lighter. In cold weather neither of these work very well even though you can feel there is still plenty of gas in the can/lighter. If you put the freezing cold can into hot water it will work again for a while until it can no longer heat the butane enough for it to boil off, the humble lighter tucked under the arm pit will come back to life after a few mins because the outer case has been heated
T1 Terry
happy bob said
02:12 AM May 24, 2018
well hylife....well may i say god save the queen...thank u ...your input has & may be opening up a new side to this problem.... bloody well ripping off the punters .....using so called lpg gas & as u are seem ti be saying there may be vairables as to what the gas copontent may consist of ??? in a say a 9kg bottle ??? yes how would u/we know ....yes this bottle was bought in broome & was transported up from perth & exchanged @ bunnings quick go there ...yes my grandson has been trying to tell me there is differences in auto gas sold @ the bowser & the bottled 9 & 45 kg bottles hes a licence gas fitter etc ...now this may be falling into place @ wedge island in wa a shack & sea side community several shack owners have made up a fitting they take to servos with laid down 45 kg bottels & fill up with auto gas & if quired explain its for there fork lift etc ..... now they all say this auto gas is not the same as bottled 45 kg lpg proper in the heat & burn out put ???????....well folks are we uncovering a big markerting & supply fraud here ???? this has now become very interesting all of a sudden ??? so thank u hylife u have some inside understanding that i & i suppose others too did not know or think about re this matter ....this is unreal ...am i reading this right ???? so any more thoughts & input from fellow rvers on this matter may open a can of worms .yes thank u to all cheers ..hb.8.
happy bob said
09:26 AM May 24, 2018
t.1.terry.....well mate now your post has added to ..hylifes post re the whole lpg gas scene ....i dunno if im reading this situation correct ????? but what u say is very very interesting indeed ...im just about all....gased out now ....ha ha but with all the input from all the rv/ers & others i have gained a reduction in the un burnt gas smell if im explaining this well....... thank u too all......cheers ..h.b.8
T1 Terry said
05:55 PM May 24, 2018
Glad I could help Bob, there are a lot of issues with those using autogas for their hot water heaters with manufacturers refusing warranty claims because the hotter burning butane gas has burnt out the firebox. The flame is so small in a fridge I doubt that is likely to be an issue so adjusting the air/fuel ratio will probably sort the smell problem. Just be aware that butane boils off at 0.5*C so the reverse also occurs where butane will return to a liquid if the temp drops below 0*C. The gas in the hose after the regulator returning to a liquid reduces the volume by 270%, but when it reaches the hot gas jet it again expands into a gas but 270 times as much volume ... rather a big fire ball. A search through various forums will turn up cases of the stove inside the caravan suddenly turning into a ball of fire and then settling back to a normal flame height and portable stoves turning into fireballs sometimes when relit on a cold night when the gas bottle tap was left turned on so the problem is widespread.
Take care and enjoy your travels, a refill of your own bottle from a reputable mob might be a bit more expensive but often a safer move in the long run. We opted for no gas at all in the RV and only use the Butane throw away cans in a little stove outside when needed, but it can be a right pain in the proverbial when the can is still half full but the flame dies out because the can got too cold. We boil up water on the induction cook top or the choofer if we have it fired up and swap the cans in/out of the hot water till the frying is finished, a bit agricultural but it does the job :lol:
ok have had the burner all apart cleaned jet & all parts over & over good blue strong flame but gives off a un burnt gas smell same smell as comes out of the top exhaust discharge pipe on the van ..so after many opinions & talked about some felloe caravaners suggested the subject of when a bottle gets low certain residue in the gas mix does not burn well hence the smell???? have contacted kleenheat in wa re this & was told never of this before??have had the van 8 years & has been a good unit up untill recent times chimney is clean as well so have fitted 3 fans up top on the out let to turn on if needed ?? oh the bottle in use is half full @ the moment ..ok any input would be good thank u cheers .....h/b..8
gas bottles rarely get dirt etc in them, but if so, corrosion due to moisture etc should be caught in the filter in the bottle regulator. Normally a screen type filter in the inlet to the regulator. A blocked filter will result in a reduced gas flow combined with a reduced flame at the jet, resulting in poor performance. Gas jets can suffer erosion or blockages due to contamination in the pipework over time, which can result in bad combustion despite giving the appearance of a good flame. If you are getting a gas smell after cleaning the jet I would suggest the jet is damaged and requires replacement. If the regulator filter is dirty, change the gas bottle and clean the filter. Depending on the regulator/filter assembly you may have to change the regulator. If it is clean, blow through the gas line to clear any corrosion/dirt etc. A further check of a blockage is to check the flame at the gas jets on the stove to ascertain if they are burning correctly. In my opinion the smell indicates a faulty burner which would require replacement.
Regards EJP
hi newbie..yes new regulator fitted..pipes blown thru..2 gas jets & burner unit cleaned & washed in hot soapy water & trialed both units same result ..have removed gas bottle & turned upside down & shaked up refitted ...a improvement noted ....but the best result in smell reduction has come from when i washed the burner unit & re clean again the 8 very.very small holes..again doing better........ on the burner unit around the larger hole burner out let ?? does that make sense ?? im doing every thing i can to save having having to go 12 volt/240 replacement which is my prefeard option going forward ok thank u ...h/b..8
yes patrol.3..& guru....fitted new regulator & it s above the bottles...also have good gas flow to the stove & oven...no more i see & hear on this comes back to unburnt type smell like ive said before like out of the chimmney exhaust smell.. bought my first van a 1963 baravan in 1985 & still have it & the one here with the problen is a jayco 1998 westport ,20 years old & has been a good unit have 400 watts on the roof of both vans also plus 3 batteries in each thank u again folks h/b..8
yes ..ejp...thank u i hear what u say ...am getting some good in put from all u know after over 35 years playing with vans u would think a dipstick like me would be on too it & as most on here would of come across fellow travelers have these probs on the road & can destroy there holiday & @ times are unable to get sorted re food storage refridge ration ,,,ok cheers again ...h/b..8
My understanding is that Jets can only be cleaned with cleaning fluid or Compressed air, using a pin or such like can alter the amount of gas thru the jet ( hence the gas smell). These jets can be replaced but ensure that its replaced with the same type/model. I think the ID number is stamped on the jet.
Peter
hi peteinsa... yes no i learnt my lesson early in the piece ...back in the day i thought that i could improve the fridges performance ....so what did i do?? i got the smallest drill bit &opened up the jet hole ..ha ha ..it went off like a ...bunson burner.....oh deer not good so yes hot soapy water &air does the job for me me thinks both jets are ok .....i see on a r.v site on ebay the jet ..[helmet]..are 4 sale for $74 out rages ...how can that be ??? ok peteinsa ..south oz i suspect ...like the others thank u for your advice ...h/b8
The filters in Auto LPG blockup with black dirt type substance . In a van the regulator would cop most of the dirt biuld up . Check lpg pressures at burner also .
It certainly spoiled an east to west return trip over the Nullarbor, as not every place sold ice
Cooking LPG and CNG should NOT have any bittering agent smell.
If you have a pungent smell either from the unburnt gas of from the exhaust then you are being sold the wrong gas.
Essentially the gas is almost the same (100% propane cooking/sometimes a little butane for autogas in cold climates) but because of volumes bought, autogas is sold for half the price.
At 70 cents a litre, a 9kg bottle holds approx. 17.6 litres or $12 of gas (1.96litres per kg), (a 8.5kg fill saves the swap n go companies almost $1 per bottle).
Cooking gas whilst essentially the same is often sold for $1.20 a litre or way more from service stations using swap n go, or a complete rip-off from some places that charge you up to $40 ($2.20 per litre) for refilling your own bottle.
Any yellow or white in the light blue flame or darker blue flame indicates contaminants in the gas such as butane, isobutane, some hexthanes and all sorts of rubbish gases that are a by product of crude oil cracking. These gases are often dumped in the Autogas mix because they can, there are no hard and fast rules about what gases make up autogas.
What you should be getting from a bottle swap or bottle refill is pure propane, if you see the bottom area of the bottle starting to freeze up and the gas pressure drops it's a fairly good sign there is mostly butane and other rubbish gases remaining in the bottle because the propane boils off at a much lower temperature (-32*C) than butane (0.5*C). A commonly seen effect of this much higher boiling point for butane is the throw away canisters used in little potable stoves and the humble cigarette lighter. In cold weather neither of these work very well even though you can feel there is still plenty of gas in the can/lighter. If you put the freezing cold can into hot water it will work again for a while until it can no longer heat the butane enough for it to boil off, the humble lighter tucked under the arm pit will come back to life after a few mins because the outer case has been heated
T1 Terry
well hylife....well may i say god save the queen...thank u ...your input has & may be opening up a new side to this problem.... bloody well ripping off the punters .....using so called lpg gas & as u are seem ti be saying there may be vairables as to what the gas copontent may consist of ??? in a say a 9kg bottle ??? yes how would u/we know ....yes this bottle was bought in broome & was transported up from perth & exchanged @ bunnings quick go there ...yes my grandson has been trying to tell me there is differences in auto gas sold @ the bowser & the bottled 9 & 45 kg bottles hes a licence gas fitter etc ...now this may be falling into place @ wedge island in wa a shack & sea side community several shack owners have made up a fitting they take to servos with laid down 45 kg bottels & fill up with auto gas & if quired explain its for there fork lift etc ..... now they all say this auto gas is not the same as bottled 45 kg lpg proper in the heat & burn out put ???????....well folks are we uncovering a big markerting & supply fraud here ???? this has now become very interesting all of a sudden ??? so thank u hylife u have some inside understanding that i & i suppose others too did not know or think about re this matter ....this is unreal ...am i reading this right ???? so any more thoughts & input from fellow rvers on this matter may open a can of worms .yes thank u to all cheers ..hb.8.
t.1.terry.....well mate now your post has added to ..hylifes post re the whole lpg gas scene ....i dunno if im reading this situation correct ????? but what u say is very very interesting indeed ...im just about all....gased out now ....ha ha but with all the input from all the rv/ers & others i have gained a reduction in the un burnt gas smell if im explaining this well....... thank u too all......cheers ..h.b.8
Take care and enjoy your travels, a refill of your own bottle from a reputable mob might be a bit more expensive but often a safer move in the long run. We opted for no gas at all in the RV and only use the Butane throw away cans in a little stove outside when needed, but it can be a right pain in the proverbial when the can is still half full but the flame dies out because the can got too cold. We boil up water on the induction cook top or the choofer if we have it fired up and swap the cans in/out of the hot water till the frying is finished, a bit agricultural but it does the job :lol:
T1 Terry