Hi. I repaced my AGM batteries last year with a 225Ahr Lithium pack. I am very happy with this decision. I have found that the charge of the battery is mostly maintained by my solar, however, there are times when I need to top up using the 240V Charger that came with my van. The Voltech Charger has a Lithium profile. I have found that for some reason this Voltech, while it charges ok, makes some strange noises when in absorption mode. Noise is often hard to explain, but I will give it a go. When the battery is charging as it enters charging mode it sounds like a relay is tripped and there is a twang noise. After a period of charge entering the battery there is a less twangy noise - it is more like a regular tripping of a switch.
This is really alloying and it would be unbearable if I were to leave the charger on overnight while sleeping in the van.
Now, my question... can the member who are more in the know recommend a suitable replacement charger?
T1 Terry said
01:49 PM May 26, 2018
The noise you here is the lithium batteries BMS system cutting the charging current and then reconnecting at a rapid rate to stop over charging. The charger you have does have 2 separate user programmable setting from memory and you can program it to charge at a rate the lithium battery BMS will accept. An alternative is to select the Gel battery type and see if that gives a better result. Sadly many battery charger manufacturers jumped on the lithium band wagon without having a clue what charging requirements house power lithium batteries actually required so they aren't even within a bulls roar of the proper charging regime. Add to this there is no link between the BMS that decides just what charging it wants and the charger itself.
When we built our lithium control system we designed it to work with what ever equipment the customer already had and added different control systems to suit different types of chargers. We monitor individual cell voltages and stop charging if a cell goes over a safe voltage and remains off till the cell voltage drops to a safe level that will not result in damage to the battery or individual cells.
T1 Terry
revemike said
04:13 PM May 26, 2018
T1 Terry wrote:
The noise you here is the lithium batteries BMS system cutting the charging current and then reconnecting at a rapid rate to stop over charging. The charger you have does have 2 separate user programmable setting from memory and you can program it to charge at a rate the lithium battery BMS will accept. An alternative is to select the Gel battery type and see if that gives a better result. Sadly many battery charger manufacturers jumped on the lithium band wagon without having a clue what charging requirements house power lithium batteries actually required so they aren't even within a bulls roar of the proper charging regime. Add to this there is no link between the BMS that decides just what charging it wants and the charger itself. When we built our lithium control system we designed it to work with what ever equipment the customer already had and added different control systems to suit different types of chargers. We monitor individual cell voltages and stop charging if a cell goes over a safe voltage and remains off till the cell voltage drops to a safe level that will not result in damage to the battery or individual cells.
T1 Terry
Thanks for this advice, Terry. I will give that a try. I did think that the sound was coming from the battery but I was convinced I was wrong by the supplier. Sound is not only hard to describe it is also very hard to know for sure where it is coming from.
In my mind I thought it was more likely to be the battery system turning off and on.
T1 Terry said
02:15 PM May 27, 2018
revemike wrote:
T1 Terry wrote:
The noise you here is the lithium batteries BMS system cutting the charging current and then reconnecting at a rapid rate to stop over charging. The charger you have does have 2 separate user programmable setting from memory and you can program it to charge at a rate the lithium battery BMS will accept. An alternative is to select the Gel battery type and see if that gives a better result. Sadly many battery charger manufacturers jumped on the lithium band wagon without having a clue what charging requirements house power lithium batteries actually required so they aren't even within a bulls roar of the proper charging regime. Add to this there is no link between the BMS that decides just what charging it wants and the charger itself. When we built our lithium control system we designed it to work with what ever equipment the customer already had and added different control systems to suit different types of chargers. We monitor individual cell voltages and stop charging if a cell goes over a safe voltage and remains off till the cell voltage drops to a safe level that will not result in damage to the battery or individual cells.
T1 Terry
Thanks for this advice, Terry. I will give that a try. I did think that the sound was coming from the battery but I was convinced I was wrong by the supplier. Sound is not only hard to describe it is also very hard to know for sure where it is coming from.
In my mind I thought it was more likely to be the battery system turning off and on.
Without actually hearing/seeing the problem or even knowing just who's BMS system is being used here I couldn't say which it would be or if it wasn't both at the same time or so close to the same time multiple sounds coming from each source just adding to the problem of identifying what's doing what and when :lol: Using a BMS system that doesn't work hand in hand with the charger causes all sorts of problem that each manufacturer/seller blames on the other party and the eventual failure of one or the other or both is blamed on the other party leaving the customer stuck in the middle with no answers and empty pockets.
Sadly this was always going to happen with so many jumping on the lithium band wagon without actually having done the hard yards researching and testing their products. Claims that can't be backed up, warranties that seem to be worth less than the price of the printing and the all to common blame game and small print at the end of the installation instructions, just a repeat of the introduction of AGM batteries eh
T1 Terry
Hylife said
12:08 AM May 28, 2018
Suggest you first check with the distributor of your lithium battery.
Lithium batteries cannot be charged as a battery, they must be charged as individual cells and charging must cease completely once they reach 100%.
Because of this, most lithium batteries now have their own intelligent battery management circuitry 'inbuilt' and you can just charge them as a wet cell battery and the inbuilt systems will disconnect your charger when done.
T1 Terry said
11:38 AM May 28, 2018
Hylife wrote:
Suggest you first check with the distributor of your lithium battery. Lithium batteries cannot be charged as a battery, they must be charged as individual cells and charging must cease completely once they reach 100%. Because of this, most lithium batteries now have their own intelligent battery management circuitry 'inbuilt' and you can just charge them as a wet cell battery and the inbuilt systems will disconnect your charger when done.
There lies the problem. None of the lithium drop in battery systems on the market at the moment have a generic output that can control and form of battery charger be it mains, solar or DC to DC. At best they simply cut the charging current within the battery and let the charging device sort out how it copes with that because it is not the battery manufacturers problem. This is why we had to design a BMS system from the ground up that could interface with any charger on the market no matter the type or brand. It took 5 yrs to get a workable system and this is still an on going process where we are fine tuning the system to add in more variants as the come on the market.
This is why there can be no such thing as an integrated drop in lithium battery compatible with anything but the proprietary devices, even then that doesn't always pan out as hoped because they are using the general public as their testing platform and most offer next to no assistance when it all goes pearshaped. It's not necessarily that the just don't care because they already have your money, although that does come into the equation, it is often because they simply do not know how to fix it because they don't really know what they are doing.
T1 Terry
Hylife said
03:18 PM May 30, 2018
There are plenty of "Drop In" replacement Lithium batteries on the market for automotive use as crank batteries.
Tiny wee light weight things with massive cranking capacity and their own inbuilt charging circuitry, and they work really well.
I've been using Lithium batteries for my cars and bikes for 4 years now without any problems.
The motorcycle ones are not much bigger than a 50pack of cigarettes for an 18Ah.
As for deep cycle use, I suspect there would be problems with the inbuilt charging circuitry. I don't think the circuitry would handle a high current recharge even though the battery can accept one.
In crank use, one only uses a high current burst for a few seconds to start the engine, so high current recharging is not needed.
I can't really say if they existing 'Lithium battery' offerings are particularly suited to deep cycle use. The only successful Lithium deep cycle use I have seen have all been assemblies of large capacity cells rather than as an off the shelf battery.
Hi. I repaced my AGM batteries last year with a 225Ahr Lithium pack. I am very happy with this decision. I have found that the charge of the battery is mostly maintained by my solar, however, there are times when I need to top up using the 240V Charger that came with my van. The Voltech Charger has a Lithium profile. I have found that for some reason this Voltech, while it charges ok, makes some strange noises when in absorption mode. Noise is often hard to explain, but I will give it a go. When the battery is charging as it enters charging mode it sounds like a relay is tripped and there is a twang noise. After a period of charge entering the battery there is a less twangy noise - it is more like a regular tripping of a switch.
This is really alloying and it would be unbearable if I were to leave the charger on overnight while sleeping in the van.
Now, my question... can the member who are more in the know recommend a suitable replacement charger?
When we built our lithium control system we designed it to work with what ever equipment the customer already had and added different control systems to suit different types of chargers. We monitor individual cell voltages and stop charging if a cell goes over a safe voltage and remains off till the cell voltage drops to a safe level that will not result in damage to the battery or individual cells.
T1 Terry
Thanks for this advice, Terry. I will give that a try. I did think that the sound was coming from the battery but I was convinced I was wrong by the supplier. Sound is not only hard to describe it is also very hard to know for sure where it is coming from.
In my mind I thought it was more likely to be the battery system turning off and on.
Without actually hearing/seeing the problem or even knowing just who's BMS system is being used here I couldn't say which it would be or if it wasn't both at the same time or so close to the same time multiple sounds coming from each source just adding to the problem of identifying what's doing what and when :lol: Using a BMS system that doesn't work hand in hand with the charger causes all sorts of problem that each manufacturer/seller blames on the other party and the eventual failure of one or the other or both is blamed on the other party leaving the customer stuck in the middle with no answers and empty pockets.
Sadly this was always going to happen with so many jumping on the lithium band wagon without actually having done the hard yards researching and testing their products. Claims that can't be backed up, warranties that seem to be worth less than the price of the printing and the all to common blame game and small print at the end of the installation instructions, just a repeat of the introduction of AGM batteries eh
T1 Terry
Lithium batteries cannot be charged as a battery, they must be charged as individual cells and charging must cease completely once they reach 100%.
Because of this, most lithium batteries now have their own intelligent battery management circuitry 'inbuilt' and you can just charge them as a wet cell battery and the inbuilt systems will disconnect your charger when done.
There lies the problem. None of the lithium drop in battery systems on the market at the moment have a generic output that can control and form of battery charger be it mains, solar or DC to DC. At best they simply cut the charging current within the battery and let the charging device sort out how it copes with that because it is not the battery manufacturers problem. This is why we had to design a BMS system from the ground up that could interface with any charger on the market no matter the type or brand. It took 5 yrs to get a workable system and this is still an on going process where we are fine tuning the system to add in more variants as the come on the market.
This is why there can be no such thing as an integrated drop in lithium battery compatible with anything but the proprietary devices, even then that doesn't always pan out as hoped because they are using the general public as their testing platform and most offer next to no assistance when it all goes pearshaped. It's not necessarily that the just don't care because they already have your money, although that does come into the equation, it is often because they simply do not know how to fix it because they don't really know what they are doing.
T1 Terry
Tiny wee light weight things with massive cranking capacity and their own inbuilt charging circuitry, and they work really well.
I've been using Lithium batteries for my cars and bikes for 4 years now without any problems.
The motorcycle ones are not much bigger than a 50pack of cigarettes for an 18Ah.
As for deep cycle use, I suspect there would be problems with the inbuilt charging circuitry. I don't think the circuitry would handle a high current recharge even though the battery can accept one.
In crank use, one only uses a high current burst for a few seconds to start the engine, so high current recharging is not needed.
I can't really say if they existing 'Lithium battery' offerings are particularly suited to deep cycle use. The only successful Lithium deep cycle use I have seen have all been assemblies of large capacity cells rather than as an off the shelf battery.