Diesel Heater question... I have an issue and I am wondering if anyone can shed some light on a solution .... I have installed a diesel heater in my van. When I first installed the unit I was using regular deep cycle batteries and everything worked smoothly. I now have Lithium and I am experiencing issues.
The error message is E08 which is voltage error, voltage is either too low or too high.
In a moment of enlightenment I decided to try running the heater with a small 12 volt 10ahr non-lithium battery. The heater functioned perfectly with this battery.
The lithium is at 90% charge and reading 13.25 volts.
Could it be that this voltage is too high for the heater to operate? If so, is there anything I could do to overcome this?
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:48 PM May 31, 2018
Measure the voltage at the heater, that is where it counts, not at the battery......
It is unlikely to be a battery problem and more likely to be voltage drop caused by cables that are too small.
Cheers,
Peter
Brenda and Alan said
11:24 PM May 31, 2018
The simple answer is the voltage at the heater is to high as the heaters are designed to run off lead /acid type batteries. If you run your lithium bank to a max voltage of 13.8 your diesel heater will run fine. Had the same problem ourselves when charging the lithium bank to over 14 volts. Our heater is an Eberspacher and the controller has a max as well as a min voltage that it will run at.
Alan
ps I think your lithium at 90% charge would more likely be at 14+ volts so maybe check your voltage with a good multimeter.
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 1st of June 2018 08:41:07 AM
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 1st of June 2018 08:42:00 AM
Mike Harding said
08:17 AM Jun 1, 2018
Putting two or three diodes in series with the positive supply to the unit will drop the applied voltage by one to two volts and may solve the problem.
You must ensure the diodes have a current rating sufficient for the application and install them in such a way that they have some airflow and are not pressed against other wires as they will become warm - if they become hot you need larger diodes and better cooling.
PS. Ensure the diodes are the correct way around otherwise it won't work at all - no harm will be done but it won't work.
revemike said
03:16 PM Jun 1, 2018
Thanks for these comments. I am almost certain the issue is high voltage. Mind you, the voltage at the Anderson plug where the heater gets its power from is only around 13.30v. I went into the supplier today and he had run into the same problem when using a Lithium at a Show. The voltage of that battery was 14+v so he was a little surprised I has having issues at 13.3v. He is going to send my step by step description to the manufacture and get some comments.
I am not an electrician but I will look for someone who can help with the diode suggestion.
dorian said
04:36 PM Jun 1, 2018
Brenda and Alan wrote:
The simple answer is the voltage at the heater is to high as the heaters are designed to run off lead /acid type batteries. If you run your lithium bank to a max voltage of 13.8 your diesel heater will run fine. Had the same problem ourselves when charging the lithium bank to over 14 volts. Our heater is an Eberspacher and the controller has a max as well as a min voltage that it will run at.
Alan
ps I think your lithium at 90% charge would more likely be at 14+ volts so maybe check your voltage with a good multimeter.
The alternator charging voltage would be 14.1V - 14.5V. A diesel heater must be designed to accommodate that and more.
AIRTRONIC / AIRTRONIC M Technical description, installation, operation and maintenance instructions:
Lower voltage limit: An undervoltage protection in the controller switches off the heater when the voltage limit is reached.
approx. 10.5 volt Undervoltage protection trigger time: 20 seconds
Upper voltage limit: An uppervoltage protection in the controller switches off the heater when the voltage limit is reached.
approx. 16 volt Overvoltage protection trigger time: 20 seconds
Mike Harding said
04:37 PM Jun 1, 2018
revemike wrote:I am not an electrician but I will look for someone who can help with the diode suggestion.
An electrician wouldn't know a diode if it dropped on his head.
Aus-Kiwi said
06:23 PM Jun 1, 2018
Oh donât make it one of those threads !! Lol
Mike Harding said
07:28 PM Jun 1, 2018
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Oh donât make it one of those threads !! Lol
I just get fed up with electricians pretending they are "experts".
thomas01 said
10:08 PM Jun 1, 2018
Now, now MH. Settle down.
Not all electricians are wire jerkers.
Anyhow, most of us don't have to pretend to be experts. We just are.
And that's my expert opinion!!!
Robert.
-- Edited by thomas01 on Friday 1st of June 2018 10:15:58 PM
Brenda and Alan said
09:34 AM Jun 2, 2018
Dorian I know the eberspacher D2 is supposed to operate up to 16 volts, but ours fails to ignite if the voltage at controler is above 14.1 volts and it sets the 010 error code. Don't know why so onyt charge the lithium bank to 13.8 volts and have no problems any more.
Alan
revemike said
03:01 PM Jun 2, 2018
I THINK I have sorted it.... another test tonight when the solar will not be adding amps will confirm.
Update: Test Results
Today, I checked the wiring and found that the connection to the pump was a little loose. I also altered the position of the pump to remove the upward angle away from the heater. The installation notes say that the pump should be positioned angled upward towards the heater. I have positioned it more in keeping with this requirement.
12volt standard battery
Turn on heater. At standby 12.67v
Fan on (only) 12.55v .33amps
With heat on 11.29 - 9.59amps
Pump ticking 11.35
Heat felt from vent 12.19v
12volt Lithium
Turn on heater. At standby 13.83v
Fan on. 13.64v
With heat pump working. 12.30v - 11.80v
Heat felt from vent. 13.37v
Note: The error message did not present this time. The battery was at around 90%SOC at the time of this test and the sun was shining on the solar panel.
Peter_n_Margaret said
04:39 PM Jun 2, 2018
It is clear to me that the failure is low voltage.
The cable to the unit is too small and you are getting a lot of voltage drop.
Cheers,
Peter
grahamg said
06:16 PM Jun 2, 2018
when these startup they draw a large current for a short period which will drop the voltage if the battery is on the way out or the cable too thin etc... once they start they only draw a small current.If you measure the battery voltage all appears to be ok unless you actually measure it when the high current occurs.
if i am aware the battery is a bit low, I will connect and and run the car until it starts and all is ok.
revemike said
12:43 PM Jun 3, 2018
I made some alterations today that appear to have made a difference...
The attached photo shows the amount of cable I was able to discard from the heater installation today.
The heavy roll was from the power source end (connection to Anderson plug to 12v source). The smaller roll of wire, that is a very light gauge, was removed from the connection to the pump.
After removing the excess I tested the heater (with solar supplementing power) and the heater functioned perfectly. I will try it tonight when there is no supply from solar and see if the heater still functions (without the low voltage error).
Diesel Heater question... I have an issue and I am wondering if anyone can shed some light on a solution .... I have installed a diesel heater in my van. When I first installed the unit I was using regular deep cycle batteries and everything worked smoothly. I now have Lithium and I am experiencing issues.
The error message is E08 which is voltage error, voltage is either too low or too high.
In a moment of enlightenment I decided to try running the heater with a small 12 volt 10ahr non-lithium battery. The heater functioned perfectly with this battery.
The lithium is at 90% charge and reading 13.25 volts.
Could it be that this voltage is too high for the heater to operate? If so, is there anything I could do to overcome this?
It is unlikely to be a battery problem and more likely to be voltage drop caused by cables that are too small.
Cheers,
Peter
The simple answer is the voltage at the heater is to high as the heaters are designed to run off lead /acid type batteries. If you run your lithium bank to a max voltage of 13.8 your diesel heater will run fine. Had the same problem ourselves when charging the lithium bank to over 14 volts. Our heater is an Eberspacher and the controller has a max as well as a min voltage that it will run at.
Alan
ps I think your lithium at 90% charge would more likely be at 14+ volts so maybe check your voltage with a good multimeter.
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 1st of June 2018 08:41:07 AM
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 1st of June 2018 08:42:00 AM
Putting two or three diodes in series with the positive supply to the unit will drop the applied voltage by one to two volts and may solve the problem.
You must ensure the diodes have a current rating sufficient for the application and install them in such a way that they have some airflow and are not pressed against other wires as they will become warm - if they become hot you need larger diodes and better cooling.
One of these may help:
https://www.jaycar.com.au/6a10-6a-1000v-diode/p/ZR1024
https://www.jaycar.com.au/diode-6a4-400v-6a-rectifier-r6-pack-10/p/ZR1044
PS. Ensure the diodes are the correct way around otherwise it won't work at all - no harm will be done but it won't work.
Thanks for these comments. I am almost certain the issue is high voltage. Mind you, the voltage at the Anderson plug where the heater gets its power from is only around 13.30v. I went into the supplier today and he had run into the same problem when using a Lithium at a Show. The voltage of that battery was 14+v so he was a little surprised I has having issues at 13.3v. He is going to send my step by step description to the manufacture and get some comments.
I am not an electrician but I will look for someone who can help with the diode suggestion.
The alternator charging voltage would be 14.1V - 14.5V. A diesel heater must be designed to accommodate that and more.
AIRTRONIC / AIRTRONIC M Technical description, installation, operation and maintenance instructions:
https://www.caravansplus.com.au/pdf/airtronicD2D4_technical.pdf
An electrician wouldn't know a diode if it dropped on his head.
I just get fed up with electricians pretending they are "experts".
Now, now MH. Settle down.
Not all electricians are wire jerkers.
Anyhow, most of us don't have to pretend to be experts. We just are.
And that's my expert opinion!!!
Robert.
-- Edited by thomas01 on Friday 1st of June 2018 10:15:58 PM
Dorian I know the eberspacher D2 is supposed to operate up to 16 volts, but ours fails to ignite if the voltage at controler is above 14.1 volts and it sets the 010 error code. Don't know why so onyt charge the lithium bank to 13.8 volts and have no problems any more.
Alan
I THINK I have sorted it.... another test tonight when the solar will not be adding amps will confirm.
Update: Test Results
Today, I checked the wiring and found that the connection to the pump was a little loose. I also altered the position of the pump to remove the upward angle away from the heater. The installation notes say that the pump should be positioned angled upward towards the heater. I have positioned it more in keeping with this requirement.
12volt standard battery
Turn on heater. At standby 12.67v
Fan on (only) 12.55v .33amps
With heat on 11.29 - 9.59amps
Pump ticking 11.35
Heat felt from vent 12.19v
12volt Lithium
Turn on heater. At standby 13.83v
Fan on. 13.64v
With heat pump working. 12.30v - 11.80v
Heat felt from vent. 13.37v
Note: The error message did not present this time. The battery was at around 90%SOC at the time of this test and the sun was shining on the solar panel.
The cable to the unit is too small and you are getting a lot of voltage drop.
Cheers,
Peter
if i am aware the battery is a bit low, I will connect and and run the car until it starts and all is ok.
I made some alterations today that appear to have made a difference...
The attached photo shows the amount of cable I was able to discard from the heater installation today.
The heavy roll was from the power source end (connection to Anderson plug to 12v source). The smaller roll of wire, that is a very light gauge, was removed from the connection to the pump.
After removing the excess I tested the heater (with solar supplementing power) and the heater functioned perfectly. I will try it tonight when there is no supply from solar and see if the heater still functions (without the low voltage error).