Been doing a bit of reading up on e.g.r. valves, seems to be a few pros & cons about taking it out of the picture, engines may run hotter, turbo can be overpressurised.
E.G.R. can be simply blanked off or controlled by an add on module,
has any one done either of these mods. & what resulted,
Talking about diesels not petrol,
Joda.
Aus-Kiwi said
12:24 AM Jul 28, 2018
I just added water injection . It cleans chambers, exhaust big time .. EGR is DIFFERENT from one brand to the other . It can actually cool engine on light cruise being that itâs an inert gas. It assists big time in emissions . Short trips soot up EGR .
Radar said
07:27 AM Jul 28, 2018
Joda wrote:
Been doing a bit of reading up on e.g.r. valves, seems to be a few pros & cons about taking it out of the picture, engines may run hotter, turbo can be overpressurised. E.G.R. can be simply blanked off or controlled by an add on module, has any one done either of these mods. & what resulted, Talking about diesels not petrol, Joda.
Interesting subject diesel EGR valves, Europeanu pollution control devices.
Some people tell you need it, others say no.
What is interesting is when you have a problem with the EGR the continual stories you hear of maintance cost of this gadget.
My problem started with a malfunction light coming on, easy enough to get rid of by clearing it but back again around 15 ks latter. Making some enquires found the solution was a new one, non serviceable item. I am not able to give cost of this as I am away from home to check, it did run into about $400.
Interesting this happen around 70000ks and it most likely happen again and again at that ks.
Close friend with half the ks gets the DMax serviced and guess what, he gets sluged with a charge for serving the EGR valve. My niece owns a VW diesel car, off the road for a few days waiting for a new EGR valve.
Up until about 5 years ago no one new they had a problem with there EGR valves as they were not linked to the computer system hence no warning of failure.
Common answer you hear is the driver of the car don't drive them hard enough or the car is used to do short trips. In answer to that the VW was driven 200ks trip once a week, DMax will pull the caravan on tours, they have a second car for shopping, my car gets used for everything towing the caravan, 2000ks round trips interstate and shopping.
Once again a very interesting costly subject.
Greystone said
08:46 AM Jul 28, 2018
The EGR system is designed to reduce emissions during high power demand of the engine. The EGR system operates more during take off and heavy towing, less during cruising. Carbon particles and residual oil in the exhaust gas create a very hard deposit and eventually block the valve. It also deposits in the EGR cooler. When you service the valve you should also clean the cooler.
Installing a catch can reduces the amount of oil that gets burned in the cylinders hence less carbon is generated. It may reduce the carbon deposit but does not eliminate it.
Disabling the EGR system is relatively easy, but your car will not be road worthy anymore and if found out you may be subject to heavy fines.
WAssa41 said
09:03 AM Jul 28, 2018
Aus-Kiwi Tell me more about water injection
Joda said
10:08 AM Jul 28, 2018
Aus_kiwi, in what way are egrs different in car models?
Do you know if egr valves are serviceble, my understanding is that inlet manifolds get clogged up due to gases & oil mist passing thru the egr into the manifold, cleaning egr would not solve this?
Joda.
Aus-Kiwi said
10:25 AM Jul 28, 2018
Ever noticed if youâve ever seen the head , cylinder of an engine where the head gasket fails ? Especially when coolant leaks into cylinder . Itâs clean as stainless steel . The hot stream cleans carbon with ease . Our engine doesnât is not intercooled . So assists in cooling into temps . I donât add methanol. I add a little ethanol ( metholated spirits) as it is available every where . I used another windscreen wash bottle . Some use original wash both ? Ethanol is ok on windscreen in small percentage., Since fitting the cold start heat plugs is way more efficient., it comes with boost valve. It only comes on while on boost . Ours is set on 5lb . It runs max of 8lb ., Pulling up hills on hot days you can really feel the difference .. helps engine cooling as well . It doesnât and wonât fix tune issues if your over boosting etc . For $300 ( ex US ) I found it keeps things safer engine wise . Have the smallest recomended jets . Much much less exhaust smoke too . Ethanol mix is around 10% . Can go as high as 50% . Higher it becomes flammable . You donât have to add any alcohol additives. I find it helps atomise, evaporate when injected .
Aus-Kiwi said
10:28 AM Jul 28, 2018
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/
DeBe said
01:40 PM Jul 28, 2018
This is what happens with EGR systems to inlet valves, also crank case fumes added to the mix. The picture is from petrol EFI engines (from my Ford EFI training) but diesels also suffer aswell. When you remove the cylinder head & have too clean up the valves, this stuff is well baked on. My take on EGR systems you are feeding carbon etc from an exhaust system back into a filtered & clean inlet. Bit like sticking a pipe up your backside & the other end in your mouth.
On D-Maxine I installed a catch can from new and it does catch a fair bit of oil.
The idea is to catch and condense as much crank case oil vapor as possible before it goes through the turbo, inter cooler, throttle body, inlet manifold where it can form deposits. From the EGR comes diesel particulate and gasses to be re-burnt. This mixed with crankcase vapor/oil make a nice product that forms deposits.
It would seem some engine designs collect more carbon than others due to flow design. I don't agree with blocking the EGR valve or plug and play units that trick your computer into leaving the EGR closed.
I chose to reduce the products that build the deposits, like Greystone said some will always get through.
Aus-Kiwi, on my previous vehicle I ran a homemade wiper washer water meth injection system and can vouch for how clean it keeps pre combustion chambers, valves and ports. Only updated because it could not pull my new home behind it!
Vanderee said
02:36 PM Jul 28, 2018
Meth injection, brilliant idea. Diesel and LPG injection also keeps engines internals clean as a whistle. A good fuel additive
and injector cleaner also cuts down maintenance cost. Meth can be added to all fuels for cleaner combustion and water absorption.
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:56 PM Jul 28, 2018
Water-alcohol injection has been around for years - didn't some wartime planes have it?
I'm trusting my DGA gas injection is keeping my engine clean - it certainly improves on the power & fuel economy.
jkis said
08:44 AM Jul 29, 2018
Aus-Kiwi which kit did you use. And were abouts did you put the injector noozle.
I have a mercedes 180 hp straight 6 can't seem to fined much info on it.
Cheers stuart
Aus-Kiwi said
12:42 PM Jul 29, 2018
Got mine Via US . Devils Own brand didnât get the water container due to shipping charges . Initially I used the original wash bottle. It comes with attachment to fit in lower bottle to supply pump. Not sure if it was direct off them or eBay ? Btw DIRECT injection petrol engines have carbon issues behind inlet valves too . Oil leaking down valves plus a little through PCV . Oil seperaters help ., Important .. make sure water doesnât run into engine when not running etc !!
Dave1952 said
09:59 AM Aug 3, 2018
Funny thing is that the older diesels such as the old TD 42 Patrols circa 1985 model and the HJ 47 and HJ 60 Landcruiser never needed an EGR! I have owned, at one time or another, one of each of those, and they ran fine with no EGR. The TD 42 Patrol had an aftermarket turbo with a catch can fitted and it was a great old trolley. Only problem was being close to salt water a lot meant that it ended up that rusty that the only thing holding it together was the steel beetles holding hands, so it got pensioned off. But EGR...no.
EGR valves were first introduced in the early 1970s and the exhaust gas recirculation EGR valve system is a proven method of emission control for both petrol and diesel applications. Due to the technological advances achieved in EGR control and catalyst technology, cleaner exhaust has been achieved even under lean-burn conditions.
Life's a bitch Dave
Cheers - John
Jaahn said
02:55 PM Aug 3, 2018
Dave1952 wrote:
Funny thing is that the older diesels such as the old TD 42 Patrols circa 1985 model and the HJ 47 and HJ 60 Landcruiser never needed an EGR! I have owned, at one time or another, one of each of those, and they ran fine with no EGR. The TD 42 Patrol had an aftermarket turbo with a catch can fitted and it was a great old trolley. Only problem was being close to salt water a lot meant that it ended up that rusty that the only thing holding it together was the steel beetles holding hands, so it got pensioned off. But EGR...no.
Hi
One of the reasons for these old models not needing an EGR would be that in Australia they were classified into a light truck category on purpose to exemp them from a lot of the emission regs. So the cars had to have the gear but the diesel 4WDs just pumped out sh*t in ever increasing amounts compared to the ever improving petrol cars. People here chose to lobby for that to stay instead of moving foward.
How many extra people had health issues due to our backward thinking on pollution. Most of those old engines were banned from sale in Japan due to their pollution 10 years before they were replaced in models for here. Still some may be sold into third world countries where life and health do not matter as much Think on that when you disable your EGR.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Friday 3rd of August 2018 02:57:40 PM
skins said
03:14 PM Aug 4, 2018
I've got a 2015 Pajero, these diesel Pajero's are renowned for the inlet manifold clogging up about the 100,000 mark. I also have a little gadget call an EGR module that is a "plug & play" type unit (big as a matchbox) that just easily plugs in & stops any gasses via the EGR valve, problem solved. Cost me about $120 several years ago. Got it via research via the Pajero 4x4 club of Victoria where its a commonly done to their Pajero's. Unfortunately don't know if they are available for other types of vehicles. I have also read where people get a "steel blank" & just blank off the pipe leading into the manifold from the EGR valve (off evil bay). But this sometimes throws engine codes/faults, they then drill small hole into the blank to allow a small amount of gasses through which fixes the problem- apparently.
Dave1952 said
07:08 PM Aug 4, 2018
Thanks for the update on that John. I had no idea when EGR was introduced in Australia. All I knew was the three vehicles I listed did not have it. I know that because I worked extensively on all three motors at one time or another. Would I work on the motor of my present tug (a 100 series Cruiser with EGR) - absolutely NOT! Simply because later model diesels require more specialised knowledge than I have. Jaahn, thanks also for your informative comments. Another thing I never gave any thought to is vehicle category. And you are so right - years ago, it was thought that diesel emissions were not carcinogenic, until scientists proved by exhaustive testing that they are. (pardon the pun there but not intended.)
My EGR was repaired just over two years ago, and I have no plans to remove or block it.
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Saturday 4th of August 2018 07:09:59 PM
Interesting subject diesel EGR valves, Europeanu pollution control devices.
Some people tell you need it, others say no.
What is interesting is when you have a problem with the EGR the continual stories you hear of maintance cost of this gadget.
My problem started with a malfunction light coming on, easy enough to get rid of by clearing it but back again around 15 ks latter. Making some enquires found the solution was a new one, non serviceable item. I am not able to give cost of this as I am away from home to check, it did run into about $400.
Interesting this happen around 70000ks and it most likely happen again and again at that ks.
Close friend with half the ks gets the DMax serviced and guess what, he gets sluged with a charge for serving the EGR valve. My niece owns a VW diesel car, off the road for a few days waiting for a new EGR valve.
Up until about 5 years ago no one new they had a problem with there EGR valves as they were not linked to the computer system hence no warning of failure.
Common answer you hear is the driver of the car don't drive them hard enough or the car is used to do short trips. In answer to that the VW was driven 200ks trip once a week, DMax will pull the caravan on tours, they have a second car for shopping, my car gets used for everything towing the caravan, 2000ks round trips interstate and shopping.
Once again a very interesting costly subject.
Aus-Kiwi Tell me more about water injection
On D-Maxine I installed a catch can from new and it does catch a fair bit of oil.
The idea is to catch and condense as much crank case oil vapor as possible before it goes through the turbo, inter cooler, throttle body, inlet manifold where it can form deposits. From the EGR comes diesel particulate and gasses to be re-burnt. This mixed with crankcase vapor/oil make a nice product that forms deposits.
It would seem some engine designs collect more carbon than others due to flow design. I don't agree with blocking the EGR valve or plug and play units that trick your computer into leaving the EGR closed.
I chose to reduce the products that build the deposits, like Greystone said some will always get through.
Aus-Kiwi, on my previous vehicle I ran a homemade wiper washer water meth injection system and can vouch for how clean it keeps pre combustion chambers, valves and ports. Only updated because it could not pull my new home behind it!
Meth injection, brilliant idea. Diesel and LPG injection also keeps engines internals clean as a whistle. A good fuel additive
and injector cleaner also cuts down maintenance cost. Meth can be added to all fuels for cleaner combustion and water absorption.
I'm trusting my DGA gas injection is keeping my engine clean - it certainly improves on the power & fuel economy.
Gday...
https://egrsensors.com.au/static/what-egr-valves-do
EGR valves were first introduced in the early 1970s and the exhaust gas recirculation EGR valve system is a proven method of emission control for both petrol and diesel applications. Due to the technological advances achieved in EGR control and catalyst technology, cleaner exhaust has been achieved even under lean-burn conditions.
Life's a bitch Dave
Cheers - John
Hi
One of the reasons for these old models not needing an EGR would be that in Australia they were classified into a light truck category on purpose to exemp them from a lot of the emission regs. So the cars had to have the gear but the diesel 4WDs just pumped out sh*t in ever increasing amounts compared to the ever improving petrol cars. People here chose to lobby for that to stay instead of moving foward.
How many extra people had health issues due to our backward thinking on pollution. Most of those old engines were banned from sale in Japan due to their pollution 10 years before they were replaced in models for here. Still some may be sold into third world countries where life and health do not matter as much
Think on that when you disable your EGR.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Friday 3rd of August 2018 02:57:40 PM
I've got a 2015 Pajero, these diesel Pajero's are renowned for the inlet manifold clogging up about the 100,000 mark. I also have a little gadget call an EGR module that is a "plug & play" type unit (big as a matchbox) that just easily plugs in & stops any gasses via the EGR valve, problem solved. Cost me about $120 several years ago. Got it via research via the Pajero 4x4 club of Victoria where its a commonly done to their Pajero's. Unfortunately don't know if they are available for other types of vehicles. I have also read where people get a "steel blank" & just blank off the pipe leading into the manifold from the EGR valve (off evil bay). But this sometimes throws engine codes/faults, they then drill small hole into the blank to allow a small amount of gasses through which fixes the problem- apparently.
Thanks for the update on that John. I had no idea when EGR was introduced in Australia. All I knew was the three vehicles I listed did not have it. I know that because I worked extensively on all three motors at one time or another. Would I work on the motor of my present tug (a 100 series Cruiser with EGR) - absolutely NOT! Simply because later model diesels require more specialised knowledge than I have.
Jaahn, thanks also for your informative comments. Another thing I never gave any thought to is vehicle category. And you are so right - years ago, it was thought that diesel emissions were not carcinogenic, until scientists proved by exhaustive testing that they are. (pardon the pun there but not intended.)
My EGR was repaired just over two years ago, and I have no plans to remove or block it.
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Saturday 4th of August 2018 07:09:59 PM