We've just bought a generator to go on our travels with us and, from a weight distribution and towbar weight perspective, are wondering if it's going to be best to have it on the back of the van or on the A-frame? The generator weighs 33 kgs.
We are towing a 21' tandem axle caravan with a Landcruiser L200 GXL
Very many thanks,
May
-- Edited by Granny May on Friday 21st of September 2018 11:55:32 PM
Mike Harding said
06:14 AM Sep 22, 2018
Can't give you an answer without knowing more about your setup but take a look at this short video:
We've just bought a generator to go on our travels with us and, from a weight distribution and towbar weight perspective, are wondering if it's going to be best to have it on the back of the van or on the A-frame? The generator weighs 33 kgs.
We are towing a 21' tandem axle caravan with a Landcruiser L200 GXL
Very many thanks,
May
-- Edited by Granny May on Friday 21st of September 2018 11:55:32 PM
Hi, the answers to this question will probably get out of control. 33kgs of generator plus fuel, plus mounting brackets is a lot of weight to add to the A frame or the rear bar of the caravan, either way it will be come very noticeable.
By adding it to the rear will seriously take weight off the tow bar or adding it to the A frame will perhaps seriously be adding to much weight to the back of your tow car.
By adding 33 kgs to the front you will need to add 33 kgs to the back or vice versa. I would very much doubt you would have that sort of tolerance in the allowable towing weights, its called balance and caravan are hard to balance.
Landcruiser can only take so much and a bulk 33kg generator is way to much weight in one hit.
The best place for 33kgs is around the dual axles of the caravan full stop to be on safe side with towing practices.
Sorry to be the bearer of sad news, its either the generator or NO pots, pans and eating utensils. Caravan are not designed to carry excess weight. You may see it but that don't make it legal or OK.
-- Edited by Radar on Saturday 22nd of September 2018 07:22:57 AM
2weis said
07:48 AM Sep 22, 2018
when I fitted a generator box and gennie to the rear of my 21ft dual axle it added 36kg to the rear and lightened the ball weight by 16kg
brian
rockylizard said
08:20 AM Sep 22, 2018
Gday...
You have a predicament -
33Kg+ on A-frame will definitely increase the ballweight - will it be too much for the vehicle's specification? Only a test will tell.
33Kg+ on the rear will definitely reduce the ballweight AND quite probably impact the van's stability - only a test will tell.
Obviously, also you need to know how much the 33Kg+ will affect the total weight of the van - in relation to the van's stated ATM.
Me - I carry the genny in my vehicle. However, the payload of a LC200 is not great and quite finite and that 33Kg+ just may mean you will have to leave out some other stuff.
It is probably unfortunate you have already bought the genny - you could have had a very good setup with solar and batteries for that money - and the genny may not have been needed at all.
It is very hard to give advice on these circumstances - we are all wise in hindsight.
Cheers - John
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:40 AM Sep 22, 2018
Weight at any end of a van is bad news for stability....even if the balance and ball weight are perfect...... end of storey.
Less of a problem at the front than at the rear. novom.ru/en/watch/PFzrWHTG5e8
Cheers,
Peter
Yuglamron said
08:44 AM Sep 22, 2018
In the Van above the middle of the axles. Anywhere else front or rear and you alter the stability.
You could be lucky and get away with it for years but it definitely changes the stability if you mount it at either end of the Van.
rockylizard said
08:55 AM Sep 22, 2018
Gday...
I agree Trev ... but where "in the middle of the axles" of the van would you store it?
On the floor, tied down with a couple of occy straps.
Probably the best place, but somewhat impractical ... and still may impact the total weight in relation to ATM.
Carry it in the LC200 and take items from the LC200 and put them on the floor of the van ... or in cupboards "in the middle of the axles" BUT in the floor-level ones.
A conundrum for sure.
Cheers - John
PeterD said
04:53 PM Sep 22, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Weight at any end of a van is bad news for stability....even if the balance and ball weight are perfect...... end of storey. Less of a problem at the front than at the rear. novom.ru/en/watch/PFzrWHTG5e8
Best place for a generator is at home in the garage
Phillipn said
08:00 PM Sep 25, 2018
JBDUBBO wrote:
Best place for a generator is at home in the garage
That does not answer the question that was asked. If you do not like generators it might be best that you go to a van park or stay at home
yobarr said
08:04 PM Sep 25, 2018
Phillipn wrote:
JBDUBBO wrote:
Best place for a generator is at home in the garage
That does not answer the question that was asked. If you do not like generators it might be best that you go to a van park or stay at home
Or get a decent Solar system that allows you to be 100% self-contained,AC and all!
Phillipn said
07:05 AM Sep 26, 2018
yobarr wrote:
Phillipn wrote:
JBDUBBO wrote:
Best place for a generator is at home in the garage
That does not answer the question that was asked. If you do not like generators it might be best that you go to a van park or stay at home
Or get a decent Solar system that allows you to be 100% self-contained,AC and all!
I use both Gennie and solar. Solar is useless when the weather turns bad.
Reminds me of the poeple who had a solar setup on their property, they went to the neighbours who are connected to the grid to charge batteries when the sun didn`t shine.
Mike Harding said
08:56 AM Sep 26, 2018
Phillipn wrote:
yobarr wrote: Or get a decent Solar system that allows you to be 100% self-contained,AC and all!
I use both Gennie and solar. Solar is useless when the weather turns bad.
I have 180W of solar panel and a true MPPT regulator. I also have a 60lt fridge/freezer which, in winter, uses about 25Ah per day.
In the winter, here in Victoria, most days I can't even come close to replacing those 25Ah with the solar panels and the Honda generator is essential to keep the battery charged. As, invariably, I am camped in the middle of the bush there is no one around to complain but generator owners do need to be mindful that others did not come to this location in order to listen to a generator.
rockylizard said
09:04 AM Sep 26, 2018
Gday...
While a generator is handy and effective ... for far less than the cost of the generator, you could buy sufficient solar panels to overcome the need for the generator.
I don't know what size battery you are running ... but 180W of solar is not enough even for my limited daily (nightly) usage from/into a 120Ah battery.
Jest sayin'
Cheers - John
yobarr said
10:49 AM Sep 26, 2018
Phillipn wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Phillipn wrote:
JBDUBBO wrote:
Best place for a generator is at home in the garage
That does not answer the question that was asked. If you do not like generators it might be best that you go to a van park or stay at home
Or get a decent Solar system that allows you to be 100% self-contained,AC and all!
I use both Gennie and solar. Solar is useless when the weather turns bad.
Reminds me of the poeple who had a solar setup on their property, they went to the neighbours who are connected to the grid to charge batteries when the sun didn`t shine.
Solar works on light,and always will produce something. People sometimes expect a small system to do big things,as seems to be tge case with the people you mentioned.Do it once,do it well! I run my 2.5kw AC all night on 18c,(testing!) and at 6am my batteries still are on 97% charge.When the sun rises,they are back at 100% within an hour on even the cloudiest day. I can even run my heater all night,as it uses only 20% more power than the cooling side of the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 2.5kw system I have installed. As backup,I have a diesel heater for both water and air,as well as a Yamaha 2800i generator which has never even been started. After a few trips,the generator may find a new home at the back of my shed.....another $2000 wasted,me thinks! Cheers
Phillipn said
10:57 AM Sep 26, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
While a generator is handy and effective ... for far less than the cost of the generator, you could buy sufficient solar panels to overcome the need for the generator.
I don't know what size battery you are running ... but 180W of solar is not enough even for my limited daily (nightly) usage from/into a 120Ah battery.
Jest sayin'
Cheers - John
Solar panels might be OK for some on rainy and overcast days, because they think the sun shines out of their rear end.
Mike Harding said
11:01 AM Sep 26, 2018
rockylizard wrote:but 180W of solar is not enough even for my limited daily (nightly) usage from/into a 120Ah battery.
Yes, I could - I suspect I'd need around 400W to 500W to ensure full supply in winter. And then instead of moving two solar panels every 30 minutes in order to keep them in the sun I'd be moving five or six.
On top of that I'd have to ensure I camped in sites that had sufficient floor space which was open to sunlight and close enough to the vehicle so power loss in the cables was acceptable. This would exclude my delightful bush site on the Murray bank in NW Vic which is closed by tall trees to the N, E and S and only open to the west which looks across the river (lovely view). It would exclude quite a few other sites too and I'd become a slave to the solar panels only camping where they were happy.
Instead, I run the gen for a couple of hours in the morning via a home made 27A battery charger which puts bulk charge back into everything and then let the solar panels do the final charge during the rest of the day. Works well for me.
Mike Harding said
11:03 AM Sep 26, 2018
Phillipn wrote: Solar panels might be OK for some [snip]
A rude and needless post.
People are entitled to have different viewpoints and what works for one may not work for another. No need for abuse.
Aus-Kiwi said
11:09 AM Sep 26, 2018
Front or rear . Just change a few other things around . BTW when for some reason you have flat batteries . You thank goodness you bought the generator. Its got us ( others too) out of trouble a few times, 1000s klrs from help. . Depending on solor alone is like traveling without a spare tyre imo . Everyone has different needs and finances etc .All very well be ignorant of the safety side . Just because in the past some idiot started his gen set at night etc . It could have been a emergency for them also . ??
Granny May said
12:27 PM Sep 26, 2018
JBDUBBO wrote:
Best place for a generator is at home in the garage
Ha ha!
Granny May said
12:31 PM Sep 26, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
You have a predicament -
33Kg+ on A-frame will definitely increase the ballweight - will it be too much for the vehicle's specification? Only a test will tell.
33Kg+ on the rear will definitely reduce the ballweight AND quite probably impact the van's stability - only a test will tell.
Obviously, also you need to know how much the 33Kg+ will affect the total weight of the van - in relation to the van's stated ATM.
Me - I carry the genny in my vehicle. However, the payload of a LC200 is not great and quite finite and that 33Kg+ just may mean you will have to leave out some other stuff.
It is probably unfortunate you have already bought the genny - you could have had a very good setup with solar and batteries for that money - and the genny may not have been needed at all.
It is very hard to give advice on these circumstances - we are all wise in hindsight.
Cheers - John
The genny was really cheap (brand new) so I'm happy to have it for power outages at home :) We've got solar, but not enough for the air-con. I'm a fragile princess who feels the cold ;)
aussie_paul said
12:53 PM Sep 26, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
rockylizard wrote:but 180W of solar is not enough even for my limited daily (nightly) usage from/into a 120Ah battery.
Yes, I could - I suspect I'd need around 400W to 500W to ensure full supply in winter. And then instead of moving two solar panels every 30 minutes in order to keep them in the sun I'd be moving five or six.
On top of that I'd have to ensure I camped in sites that had sufficient floor space which was open to sunlight and close enough to the vehicle so power loss in the cables was acceptable. This would exclude my delightful bush site on the Murray bank in NW Vic which is closed by tall trees to the N, E and S and only open to the west which looks across the river (lovely view). It would exclude quite a few other sites too and I'd become a slave to the solar panels only camping where they were happy.
Instead, I run the gen for a couple of hours in the morning via a home made 27A battery charger which puts bulk charge back into everything and then let the solar panels do the final charge during the rest of the day. Works well for me.
I have a 40 amp 240 charger connected so that everytime the genset goes for coffee aircon etc the solar gets some help. Aircon is so important to me due to my burns grafting that limits my natural body temp. regulating. That works for me.
Aussie Paul.
Mike Harding said
01:51 PM Sep 26, 2018
aussie_paul wrote:I have a 40 amp 240 charger
Forty amps is a *lot* to push into a (AGM?) lead acid battery.
My 100Ah Powersonic AGM battery has a maximum specified charge rate of 27A.
Even if you have batteries in parallel it may be damaging to force high charge rates as it's hard to tell which battery is accepting the majority of the current. otoh it may be OK only careful measurement will tell. However if you find your batteries have a short life it may be you are overcharging them.
aussie_paul said
12:16 PM Sep 28, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:I have a 40 amp 240 charger
Forty amps is a *lot* to push into a (AGM?) lead acid battery.
My 100Ah Powersonic AGM battery has a maximum specified charge rate of 27A.
Even if you have batteries in parallel it may be damaging to force high charge rates as it's hard to tell which battery is accepting the majority of the current. otoh it may be OK only careful measurement will tell. However if you find your batteries have a short life it may be you are overcharging them.
Our two batteries I think are 100 amp/hr each. I double checked and it is a variable 40 amp supply. I have it turned down to a little over 20 amps.
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Friday 28th of September 2018 12:27:29 PM
Phillipn wrote: Solar panels might be OK for some [snip]
A rude and needless post.
People are entitled to have different viewpoints and what works for one may not work for another. No need for abuse.
The rude ones are those who post rubbish that does not answer the question asked.
Peter_n_Margaret said
03:10 PM Sep 29, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:I have a 40 amp 240 charger
Forty amps is a *lot* to push into a (AGM?) lead acid battery.
My 100Ah Powersonic AGM battery has a maximum specified charge rate of 27A.
Even if you have batteries in parallel it may be damaging to force high charge rates as it's hard to tell which battery is accepting the majority of the current. otoh it may be OK only careful measurement will tell. However if you find your batteries have a short life it may be you are overcharging them.
The capacity of the charger is of no consequence to the charge rate, unless the charge voltage is also excessive.
The actual charge rate (when the appropriate voltage is offered) is determined by the battery acceptance rate - it takes care of itself.
An alternator demonstrates this.
Your crank battery does not get overcharged by being connected to a 120A "battery charger".
Cheers,
Peter
Mike Harding said
08:14 PM Sep 29, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote: The capacity of the charger is of no consequence to the charge rate, unless the charge voltage is also excessive
That's not correct.
A battery which is in a state of high discharge will have a terminal voltage of (say) 10V5. If you apply a 40A capable charger with a maximum output voltage of (say) 14V5 to that battery it will force it's maximum current, 40A, into the battery - in most cases that will exceed the battery specification. As I mentioned; for my Powersonic 100Ah that maximum is 27A.
Peter_n_Margaret said
04:59 PM Sep 30, 2018
Believe what you will. It won't stay at 10.5V for more than 2 minutes and it won't be wrecked in that time.
In fact most smart chargers won't put anything into a totally flat battery and it is necessary to hook them up with some jumper leads to a good battery first for a short time to get a surface charge in many cases. Then the charger can do its job.
Re the generator, or not....We don't carry one, and haven't for 14 years of free camping for weeks and months at a time. We can't even plug into 240V power and don't carry a 240V battery charger The solar does the job 99.5% of the time , rain or shine and if it can't there is the alternator that is a great back up charge source.
If we inadvertently flatten the crank battery, the solar can charge that too.
Solar is very cheap these days.
G'day oh wise ones,
We've just bought a generator to go on our travels with us and, from a weight distribution and towbar weight perspective, are wondering if it's going to be best to have it on the back of the van or on the A-frame? The generator weighs 33 kgs.
We are towing a 21' tandem axle caravan with a Landcruiser L200 GXL
Very many thanks,
May
-- Edited by Granny May on Friday 21st of September 2018 11:55:32 PM
Can't give you an answer without knowing more about your setup but take a look at this short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM
Hi, the answers to this question will probably get out of control. 33kgs of generator plus fuel, plus mounting brackets is a lot of weight to add to the A frame or the rear bar of the caravan, either way it will be come very noticeable.
By adding it to the rear will seriously take weight off the tow bar or adding it to the A frame will perhaps seriously be adding to much weight to the back of your tow car.
By adding 33 kgs to the front you will need to add 33 kgs to the back or vice versa. I would very much doubt you would have that sort of tolerance in the allowable towing weights, its called balance and caravan are hard to balance.
Landcruiser can only take so much and a bulk 33kg generator is way to much weight in one hit.
The best place for 33kgs is around the dual axles of the caravan full stop to be on safe side with towing practices.
Sorry to be the bearer of sad news, its either the generator or NO pots, pans and eating utensils. Caravan are not designed to carry excess weight. You may see it but that don't make it legal or OK.
-- Edited by Radar on Saturday 22nd of September 2018 07:22:57 AM
brian
Gday...
You have a predicament -
33Kg+ on A-frame will definitely increase the ballweight - will it be too much for the vehicle's specification? Only a test will tell.
33Kg+ on the rear will definitely reduce the ballweight AND quite probably impact the van's stability - only a test will tell.
Obviously, also you need to know how much the 33Kg+ will affect the total weight of the van - in relation to the van's stated ATM.
Me - I carry the genny in my vehicle. However, the payload of a LC200 is not great and quite finite and that 33Kg+ just may mean you will have to leave out some other stuff.
It is probably unfortunate you have already bought the genny - you could have had a very good setup with solar and batteries for that money - and the genny may not have been needed at all.
It is very hard to give advice on these circumstances - we are all wise in hindsight.
Cheers - John
Less of a problem at the front than at the rear.
novom.ru/en/watch/PFzrWHTG5e8
Cheers,
Peter
In the Van above the middle of the axles. Anywhere else front or rear and you alter the stability.
You could be lucky and get away with it for years but it definitely changes the stability if you mount it at either end of the Van.
Gday...
I agree Trev ... but where "in the middle of the axles" of the van would you store it?
On the floor, tied down with a couple of occy straps.
Probably the best place, but somewhat impractical ... and still may impact the total weight in relation to ATM.
Carry it in the LC200 and take items from the LC200 and put them on the floor of the van ... or in cupboards "in the middle of the axles" BUT in the floor-level ones.
A conundrum for sure.
Cheers - John
An Australian version - https://novom.ru/en/watch/o1zDeqgTUpM
Best place for a generator is at home in the garage
That does not answer the question that was asked. If you do not like generators it might be best that you go to a van park or stay at home
Or get a decent Solar system that allows you to be 100% self-contained,AC and all!
I use both Gennie and solar. Solar is useless when the weather turns bad.
Reminds me of the poeple who had a solar setup on their property, they went to the neighbours who are connected to the grid to charge batteries when the sun didn`t shine.
I have 180W of solar panel and a true MPPT regulator. I also have a 60lt fridge/freezer which, in winter, uses about 25Ah per day.
In the winter, here in Victoria, most days I can't even come close to replacing those 25Ah with the solar panels and the Honda generator is essential to keep the battery charged. As, invariably, I am camped in the middle of the bush there is no one around to complain but generator owners do need to be mindful that others did not come to this location in order to listen to a generator.
Gday...
While a generator is handy and effective ... for far less than the cost of the generator, you could buy sufficient solar panels to overcome the need for the generator.
I don't know what size battery you are running ... but 180W of solar is not enough even for my limited daily (nightly) usage from/into a 120Ah battery.
Jest sayin'
Cheers - John
Solar works on light,and always will produce something. People sometimes expect a small system to do big things,as seems to be tge case with the people you mentioned.Do it once,do it well! I run my 2.5kw AC all night on 18c,(testing!) and at 6am my batteries still are on 97% charge.When the sun rises,they are back at 100% within an hour on even the cloudiest day. I can even run my heater all night,as it uses only 20% more power than the cooling side of the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 2.5kw system I have installed. As backup,I have a diesel heater for both water and air,as well as a Yamaha 2800i generator which has never even been started. After a few trips,the generator may find a new home at the back of my shed.....another $2000 wasted,me thinks! Cheers
Solar panels might be OK for some on rainy and overcast days, because they think the sun shines out of their rear end.
Yes, I could - I suspect I'd need around 400W to 500W to ensure full supply in winter. And then instead of moving two solar panels every 30 minutes in order to keep them in the sun I'd be moving five or six.
On top of that I'd have to ensure I camped in sites that had sufficient floor space which was open to sunlight and close enough to the vehicle so power loss in the cables was acceptable. This would exclude my delightful bush site on the Murray bank in NW Vic which is closed by tall trees to the N, E and S and only open to the west which looks across the river (lovely view). It would exclude quite a few other sites too and I'd become a slave to the solar panels only camping where they were happy.
Instead, I run the gen for a couple of hours in the morning via a home made 27A battery charger which puts bulk charge back into everything and then let the solar panels do the final charge during the rest of the day. Works well for me.
A rude and needless post.
People are entitled to have different viewpoints and what works for one may not work for another. No need for abuse.
Ha ha!
The genny was really cheap (brand new) so I'm happy to have it for power outages at home :) We've got solar, but not enough for the air-con. I'm a fragile princess who feels the cold ;)
I have a 40 amp 240 charger connected so that everytime the genset goes for coffee aircon etc the solar gets some help. Aircon is so important to me due to my burns grafting that limits my natural body temp. regulating. That works for me.
Aussie Paul.
Forty amps is a *lot* to push into a (AGM?) lead acid battery.
My 100Ah Powersonic AGM battery has a maximum specified charge rate of 27A.
Even if you have batteries in parallel it may be damaging to force high charge rates as it's hard to tell which battery is accepting the majority of the current. otoh it may be OK only careful measurement will tell. However if you find your batteries have a short life it may be you are overcharging them.
Our two batteries I think are 100 amp/hr each. I double checked and it is a variable 40 amp supply. I have it turned down to a little over 20 amps.
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Friday 28th of September 2018 12:27:29 PM
The rude ones are those who post rubbish that does not answer the question asked.
The capacity of the charger is of no consequence to the charge rate, unless the charge voltage is also excessive.
The actual charge rate (when the appropriate voltage is offered) is determined by the battery acceptance rate - it takes care of itself.
An alternator demonstrates this.
Your crank battery does not get overcharged by being connected to a 120A "battery charger".
Cheers,
Peter
That's not correct.
A battery which is in a state of high discharge will have a terminal voltage of (say) 10V5. If you apply a 40A capable charger with a maximum output voltage of (say) 14V5 to that battery it will force it's maximum current, 40A, into the battery - in most cases that will exceed the battery specification. As I mentioned; for my Powersonic 100Ah that maximum is 27A.
In fact most smart chargers won't put anything into a totally flat battery and it is necessary to hook them up with some jumper leads to a good battery first for a short time to get a surface charge in many cases. Then the charger can do its job.
Re the generator, or not....We don't carry one, and haven't for 14 years of free camping for weeks and months at a time. We can't even plug into 240V power and don't carry a 240V battery charger The solar does the job 99.5% of the time , rain or shine and if it can't there is the alternator that is a great back up charge source.
If we inadvertently flatten the crank battery, the solar can charge that too.
Solar is very cheap these days.
Cheers,
Peter