Should we buy both to guarantee power for our Iveco freewind
PeterInSa said
07:01 PM Mar 13, 2019
Do you free camp in the summer and have an Air conditioner?
We use ours (ac and E20i) especially on the last trip around 40deg, prior to going crabbing the next day.
Peter
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:18 PM Mar 13, 2019
If you have enough solar you wont need a generator.
Cheers,
Peter
denmonkey said
11:31 PM Mar 13, 2019
how long is a piece of string Shea ?
what do want to run ?
Where are you going ? some camps wont allow gennies.
Plus 180 in batteries is not a real lot if you're planning on relying on them for multiple duties.
how much solar are you talking ?
I know that seems like a lot to answer but without some basic info, most answers will have no basis in reality and just be guesses at best.
help us help you
Jaahn said
07:26 AM Mar 14, 2019
Hi
To back up Denmonkey, we would need to know what you are using and how you plan to use it. If you want to use the lights and charge the devices and a bit of tv then 180AH battery will get you by OK. How will you charge that ?How big is the solar panel ? Will you also use the Iveco to charge the battery. You should do that.
If you have a fridge that uses the battery you will need more battery storage and solar panels. Or use gas if possible. Also if you are a heavy power user. Air conditioner or other big power items might need a generator. You will need to add them up and the hours you will run them. Generators have a down side too. Weight, noise, compaints, petrol supply, starting them.
Just like selecting your motor home to suit what you will need, your power supply is just the same process of selection.
Jaahn
travelyounger said
08:35 AM Mar 14, 2019
I would get the generator as it is a good back up and there will be times when you will need it if you are on the road freedom camping .If you only camp in caravan parks it would be a waste of money and valuable storage space
Aus-Kiwi said
01:59 PM Mar 14, 2019
We have heaps of solar and 600 AH batteries . The AC would still drag batteries down quick smart . The weight of generator will be LESS than batteries . Unless your Mr Palmer and fit expensive batteries . One of them ? You could buy a generator. This argument - discussion often comes up . Again depends on your rig and lifestyle. You cannot have too much solar . Even when everything is charged . They are good insulation from sun !! Just be aware of noise . Not just generator, AC also . In most cases its the deaf that complain about noise !!
shea said
05:39 PM Mar 14, 2019
We intend to keep away from paid camp sites as much as possible
Use for AC and fridge and just portable electronics
The van has 120w solar the panels that are ten years old so probably will upgrade to smaller newer panels to gain more watts
Leaving Adelaide late April heading to Byron bay with a six day travel time then to fnql and Broom for the winter
yobarr said
07:18 PM Mar 14, 2019
shea wrote:
We intend to keep away from paid camp sites as much as possible
Use for AC and fridge and just portable electronics
The van has 120w solar the panels that are ten years old so probably will upgrade to smaller newer panels to gain more watts
Leaving Adelaide late April heading to Byron bay with a six day travel time then to fnql and Broom for the winter
To effectively charge 180AH of batteries,youll need an absolute minimum 300 watts of Solar,I reckon.I have access to plenty of used solar panels in Brisbane if you are interested? Mostly 170 watts,but a few 190s and 200s as well.Cheers
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:32 PM Mar 14, 2019
yobarr wrote:
To effectively charge 180AH of batteries,youll need an absolute minimum 300 watts of Solar,
I don't agree with that. It depends on what the loads are.
That said, you can not have too much solar.
Shea, what is the fridge?
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
07:42 PM Mar 14, 2019
May be you are able to survive without AC if you are traveling in the cooler months. Even the best Daikin 2.5kW AC will give a solar & battery setup a hammering, & require a lot of catch up to get the batteries charged.
I have 120 watts for my 28L fridge & have squeezed every last drop of efficiency out of my setup. Including upgrading MPPT to a larger one. Would like more battery capacity but nowhere to put them in the car. Also I have a 10amp DC to DC charger which typically charges at about 5amps with the voltage not set too high. Will upgrade this as well at some stage. https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65231112/custom-6x20-watts-solar-setup-with-mppt/
Whenarewethere said
07:45 PM Mar 14, 2019
denmonkey wrote:
how long is a piece of string
Twice as long as half a piece of string.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:11 PM Mar 14, 2019
Genie and add another 120 watt in parallel. Fit a good fan .We use AC on generator . When its really hot then switch to fan over night to sleep . Often after quick shower . Fan keeps you cool as you dry !! Besides I have had flat batteries out in Bush . Nothing worse than no start out there !! Even a seperate battery to start generator. Atleast if that starts you can
Charge house and motor batteries !!!
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:31 PM Mar 14, 2019
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Besides I have had flat batteries out in Bush . Nothing worse than no start out there !!
Once had a crank battery die in the Kimberley.
Used the house batteries and solar to start the engine for 3 months until we got home. In fact a motorhome does not really need 2 separate battery systems. One could do everything. And the alternator can charge the house batteries too. Plenty of back up there without carrying a generator. Just needs to be organised.
Cheers,
Peter
Aus-Kiwi said
12:45 AM Mar 15, 2019
Exactly we have VSR between battery banks now . Organised ?? How the hell do you explain this to the Mrs ? Ahaha coffee and toast . They must have !!! Lol Especially after cloudy days !!
Jaahn said
07:47 AM Mar 15, 2019
shea wrote:
We intend to keep away from paid camp sites as much as possible
Use for AC and fridge and just portable electronics
The van has 120w solar the panels that are ten years old so probably will upgrade to smaller newer panels to gain more watts
Leaving Adelaide late April heading to Byron bay with a six day travel time then to fnql and Broom for the winter
Hi shea
My quick assesment on your minimal answer. If you have a fridge running on electricity the 120W will barely keep it going during the day and not be able to charge the battery much also. So during the night the battery will be flattened and fail soon. You do not have enough solar to do that. Leave the old panels on there (if working OK) and just put more similar ones on in parallel. It is a myth that new ones will be more efficient and much smaller. Read the solar forum. Ask specific questions and give us some real facts. You will need bigger batteries also if you really want to stay off 240V.
The AC is another story. You do not have enough solar OR batteries to run that. It is possible to upgrade both to do it but you must spend up big to make that work, so buy the generator. I think you need to readup a bit more on power needs and what is needed to live off the 240V and get a much better idea of what is required. When the batteries go flat and it is raining it is too late to ask us what went wrong. Be prepared before you leave and try it out at home.
You can charge your house battery using the Iveco alternator as well as the solar. This works well and has been mentioned. The alternator is a very great source of power and should not be ignored, and most people here use it. It can normally be a source of charging while driving and also an emergency charger for poor solar weather. Ask about it if it is not fitted now and ask how it is wired up. It needs to work how you want it to, and that is not always how it was fitted.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Friday 15th of March 2019 11:46:55 AM
Bagmaker said
09:45 AM Mar 15, 2019
if you are considering spending $1800 on a good generator, why do you not spend the same on a solar setup that would compete?
yobarr said
09:58 AM Mar 15, 2019
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
If you have enough solar you wont need a generator. Cheers, Peter
Absolutely true.I have 1700 watts Solar,540AH Lithium batteries and 5kw inverter.During testing I regularly ran my Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 2.5kw AC all night at 18 degrees,with the batteries never dropping below 94% charged. By 7.30am they are back up to 100% charged.The only gas appliance I have is the griller,which never gets used,so that soon may go too.Microwave, slow cooker,electric frypan,air fryer etc for cooking,and an electric kettle.....my brand new Yamaha 2800i generator has never even had oil in it,and sits at the back of the shed.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 15th of March 2019 10:34:27 AM
Aus-Kiwi said
08:53 PM Mar 15, 2019
Make sure your sitting down when asking about price of Lithium batteries ..
dave48 said
07:50 AM Mar 16, 2019
One thing that always gets overlooked is the size of your vehicle. Ours is slightly less than 7 metres and limited to how much solar we can have. For that reason we also carry a generator and it occasionally gets used to either top up the batteries or run the aircon when it;s really hot. Worth it's weight in gold then to get a good nights sleep. Everybodies circumstances are different
yobarr said
11:24 AM Mar 16, 2019
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Make sure your sitting down when asking about price of Lithium batteries ..
Hi Graeme.....mine cost around $10k,but I intend to be free camp at all times,and I wanted to be sure that I can run the AC any time I want.The batteries mean that I can do what I want,and saving a minimum $30/night caravan park fees neans that I will have my money back in well under a year.I reckon that a 100% return on investement has got to be good? The car also has Solar,with a 190 watt panel,one 90AH Lithium battery,and a 2kw inverter.Might have to get another battery there though. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 16th of March 2019 11:24:54 AM
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:28 AM Mar 16, 2019
dave48 wrote:
One thing that always gets overlooked is the size of your vehicle. Ours is slightly less than 7 metres and limited to how much solar we can have.
It is not the size of the vehicle that determines how much solar will fit, but the other stuff that some people also have on the roof.
We are 6m overall (including the spares). I have recently purchased 12 x 110W (1,320W) of panels and all will fit.
Cheers,
Peter
yobarr said
11:31 AM Mar 16, 2019
dave48 wrote:
One thing that always gets overlooked is the size of your vehicle. Ours is slightly less than 7 metres and limited to how much solar we can have. For that reason we also carry a generator and it occasionally gets used to either top up the batteries or run the aircon when it;s really hot. Worth it's weight in gold then to get a good nights sleep. Everybodies circumstances are different
Hi Dave...my van is under 6 metres,and I have Sat TV on the roof,a 4 seasons hatch,and the vent over the ensuite,but still I have been able to fit 1710 watts Solar panels. Cheers
P.S I note that you are in Brisbane.If you need help with Solar,or would like to buy some second-hand panels at a low price,let me know.
Aus-Kiwi said
05:11 PM Mar 17, 2019
Another option is to fit hi amp alternator to motor .Or an extra fitted ?? Our old Fuso had 120 amp 24v alternator . Had high idle adjuster on dash . At 800 to 1000 rpm it kept batteries charged with whatever we run through inverter .. VSR between batteries . The longer your on the road the more you learn to live with in your means . Both our m homes had 5000 watt generators installed . The current one is twin cyl diesel and is pretty quiet . Being fitted theres no storage or fitting issues ., You usually up grade things as you go ? Current M home has 1500 watt inverter . We use the generator on boiling jug, microwave, toaster etc . But bbq ( gas) is used for cooking .
bill12 said
04:48 PM Mar 18, 2019
What about the " smart" alternators on new cars? I charge my starting and aux battery from the alt in the car, and have 240w solar on the roof. I get 3 to 5 days before I have to start the car, which is usually when I want to move on anyway.2kva gem runs box aircon and battery charger when required.I have benn told Smart alternators have problems. Thanks, Bill
T1 Terry said
02:16 PM Mar 19, 2019
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Exactly we have VSR between battery banks now . Organised ?? How the hell do you explain this to the Mrs ? Ahaha coffee and toast . They must have !!! Lol Especially after cloudy days !!
Umm.... https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65296410/just-an-idea-about-what-can-be-done/ coffee machine, toast, air fryer, air con and the alternator failed part way across to WA. It has been a bit off and on for quite while so it wasn't unexpected really. Cloudy days, no alternator, flat battery, don't need a generator, just enough solar to get something back into the battery and you can start the engine. You always get something from solar, the more you have the more you get on poor solar days.
Put the money you would waste on a generator towards a battery system that can take every bit of solar available and as much solar as you can fit on the roof. Use the spot where the generator was going to be stored to store some portable panels and you should have enough solar to get by even in the rain.
Gone are the days of needing a generator, with a well set up solar system the days of being stuck with a dead alternator are a thing of the past as well.
This is the 21st century after all, everyone laughed at the idea of a battery powered car back in the 1900's, a self driving car was just nonsense, there are hybrid and pure electric drive 4 X 4 motorhomes out there now, so a generator as a must have ..... why?
T1 Terry
T1 Terry said
02:20 PM Mar 19, 2019
bill12 wrote:
What about the " smart" alternators on new cars? I charge my starting and aux battery from the alt in the car, and have 240w solar on the roof. I get 3 to 5 days before I have to start the car, which is usually when I want to move on anyway.2kva gem runs box aircon and battery charger when required.I have benn told Smart alternators have problems. Thanks, Bill
That is what the DC to DC charger is for, so the "smart" alternator voltage can be boosted to charge the aux battery to fully charged while protecting it from being over loaded and damaged.
T1 Terry
Whenarewethere said
02:30 AM Mar 20, 2019
I have a small Victron DC to DC charger plugged into a 12 volt socket, haven't had to use my solar panels once over the last few weeks.
Cars were mostly electric when first invented. The vehicles that were not electric were self driving & knew the route & when to start & stop, simply controled by a horse. Used in mines & on delivery runs etc, self driving cars are old technology!
T1 Terry said
01:40 PM Mar 20, 2019
"Cars were mostly electric when first invented." The whole battery and electric motor came quite a bit later than the first horseless carriages, that was why they were crank start rather than electric start. There was a very early hub motor electric car and I've watched a video of the restored unit in Jay Leno's gargage, but it certainly wasn't the first automobile to hit the dirt tracks.
T1 Terry
Aus-Kiwi said
12:00 PM Mar 21, 2019
I have been out there with flat batteries . Yes Both Of them ! I have fitted VSR to prevent this now . But the feeling of being stuck 1000ks away . Starting my Diesel engine needs all the 12v battery .( should have been 24v imo) Unfortunately we dont have $10k+ worth of battery storage . But a hell heavy Detroit diesel !! Believe it one time no start was on beach in WA where they have high tides . Sheesh talk about anxiety!! Again horses for courses . Size of van or motorhome ! I find experience and KNOWLEDGE of both or all people. You only need one person to boil the jug or cook with high amp to use up battery !! I ended up fitting a circuit breaker . As some just dont understand !! Funny they take notice of the breaker more than what I try to explain !! Sheesh !!
Should we buy both to guarantee power for our Iveco freewind
We use ours (ac and E20i) especially on the last trip around 40deg, prior to going crabbing the next day.
Peter
Cheers,
Peter
how long is a piece of string Shea ?
what do want to run ?
Where are you going ? some camps wont allow gennies.
Plus 180 in batteries is not a real lot if you're planning on relying on them for multiple duties.
how much solar are you talking ?
I know that seems like a lot to answer but without some basic info, most answers will have no basis in reality and just be guesses at best.
help us help you
Hi
To back up Denmonkey, we would need to know what you are using and how you plan to use it. If you want to use the lights and charge the devices and a bit of tv then 180AH battery will get you by OK. How will you charge that ?How big is the solar panel ? Will you also use the Iveco to charge the battery. You should do that.
If you have a fridge that uses the battery you will need more battery storage and solar panels. Or use gas if possible. Also if you are a heavy power user. Air conditioner or other big power items might need a generator. You will need to add them up and the hours you will run them. Generators have a down side too. Weight, noise, compaints, petrol supply, starting them.
Just like selecting your motor home to suit what you will need, your power supply is just the same process of selection.
Jaahn
I would get the generator as it is a good back up and there will be times when you will need it if you are on the road freedom camping .If you only camp in caravan parks it would be a waste of money and valuable storage space
We intend to keep away from paid camp sites as much as possible
Use for AC and fridge and just portable electronics
The van has 120w solar the panels that are ten years old so probably will upgrade to smaller newer panels to gain more watts
Leaving Adelaide late April heading to Byron bay with a six day travel time then to fnql and Broom for the winter
To effectively charge 180AH of batteries,youll need an absolute minimum 300 watts of Solar,I reckon.I have access to plenty of used solar panels in Brisbane if you are interested? Mostly 170 watts,but a few 190s and 200s as well.Cheers
I don't agree with that. It depends on what the loads are.
That said, you can not have too much solar.
Shea, what is the fridge?
Cheers,
Peter
May be you are able to survive without AC if you are traveling in the cooler months. Even the best Daikin 2.5kW AC will give a solar & battery setup a hammering, & require a lot of catch up to get the batteries charged.
I have 120 watts for my 28L fridge & have squeezed every last drop of efficiency out of my setup. Including upgrading MPPT to a larger one. Would like more battery capacity but nowhere to put them in the car. Also I have a 10amp DC to DC charger which typically charges at about 5amps with the voltage not set too high. Will upgrade this as well at some stage. https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65231112/custom-6x20-watts-solar-setup-with-mppt/
Twice as long as half a piece of string.
Charge house and motor batteries !!!
Once had a crank battery die in the Kimberley.
Used the house batteries and solar to start the engine for 3 months until we got home. In fact a motorhome does not really need 2 separate battery systems. One could do everything. And the alternator can charge the house batteries too. Plenty of back up there without carrying a generator. Just needs to be organised.
Cheers,
Peter
Hi shea
My quick assesment on your minimal answer. If you have a fridge running on electricity the 120W will barely keep it going during the day and not be able to charge the battery much also. So during the night the battery will be flattened and fail soon. You do not have enough solar to do that. Leave the old panels on there (if working OK) and just put more similar ones on in parallel. It is a myth that new ones will be more efficient and much smaller. Read the solar forum. Ask specific questions and give us some real facts. You will need bigger batteries also if you really want to stay off 240V.
The AC is another story. You do not have enough solar OR batteries to run that. It is possible to upgrade both to do it but you must spend up big to make that work, so buy the generator. I think you need to readup a bit more on power needs and what is needed to live off the 240V and get a much better idea of what is required. When the batteries go flat and it is raining it is too late to ask us what went wrong. Be prepared before you leave and try it out at home.
You can charge your house battery using the Iveco alternator as well as the solar. This works well and has been mentioned. The alternator is a very great source of power and should not be ignored, and most people here use it. It can normally be a source of charging while driving and also an emergency charger for poor solar weather. Ask about it if it is not fitted now and ask how it is wired up. It needs to work how you want it to, and that is not always how it was fitted.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Friday 15th of March 2019 11:46:55 AM
Absolutely true.I have 1700 watts Solar,540AH Lithium batteries and 5kw inverter.During testing I regularly ran my Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 2.5kw AC all night at 18 degrees,with the batteries never dropping below 94% charged. By 7.30am they are back up to 100% charged.The only gas appliance I have is the griller,which never gets used,so that soon may go too.Microwave, slow cooker,electric frypan,air fryer etc for cooking,and an electric kettle.....my brand new Yamaha 2800i generator has never even had oil in it,and sits at the back of the shed.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 15th of March 2019 10:34:27 AM
Hi Graeme.....mine cost around $10k,but I intend to be free camp at all times,and I wanted to be sure that I can run the AC any time I want.The batteries mean that I can do what I want,and saving a minimum $30/night caravan park fees neans that I will have my money back in well under a year.I reckon that a 100% return on investement has got to be good? The car also has Solar,with a 190 watt panel,one 90AH Lithium battery,and a 2kw inverter.Might have to get another battery there though. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 16th of March 2019 11:24:54 AM
It is not the size of the vehicle that determines how much solar will fit, but the other stuff that some people also have on the roof.
We are 6m overall (including the spares). I have recently purchased 12 x 110W (1,320W) of panels and all will fit.
Cheers,
Peter
Hi Dave...my van is under 6 metres,and I have Sat TV on the roof,a 4 seasons hatch,and the vent over the ensuite,but still I have been able to fit 1710 watts Solar panels. Cheers
P.S I note that you are in Brisbane.If you need help with Solar,or would like to buy some second-hand panels at a low price,let me know.
Umm.... https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65296410/just-an-idea-about-what-can-be-done/ coffee machine, toast, air fryer, air con and the alternator failed part way across to WA. It has been a bit off and on for quite while so it wasn't unexpected really. Cloudy days, no alternator, flat battery, don't need a generator, just enough solar to get something back into the battery and you can start the engine. You always get something from solar, the more you have the more you get on poor solar days.
Put the money you would waste on a generator towards a battery system that can take every bit of solar available and as much solar as you can fit on the roof. Use the spot where the generator was going to be stored to store some portable panels and you should have enough solar to get by even in the rain.
Gone are the days of needing a generator, with a well set up solar system the days of being stuck with a dead alternator are a thing of the past as well.
This is the 21st century after all, everyone laughed at the idea of a battery powered car back in the 1900's, a self driving car was just nonsense, there are hybrid and pure electric drive 4 X 4 motorhomes out there now, so a generator as a must have ..... why?
T1 Terry
That is what the DC to DC charger is for, so the "smart" alternator voltage can be boosted to charge the aux battery to fully charged while protecting it from being over loaded and damaged.
T1 Terry
I have a small Victron DC to DC charger plugged into a 12 volt socket, haven't had to use my solar panels once over the last few weeks.
Cars were mostly electric when first invented. The vehicles that were not electric were self driving & knew the route & when to start & stop, simply controled by a horse. Used in mines & on delivery runs etc, self driving cars are old technology!
T1 Terry