Avan spec sheet state the BW at 145kg (van empty).
Assuming the water tanks are equal distance from the single axle, full tanks should not increase the ball weight...Is this correct?
Tow vehicle is a 2013 Pajero.
your feedback would be helpful
Dougwe said
02:08 PM Mar 14, 2019
Welcome to the gang Michael, enjoy here and out in the playground.
Without getting to technical because I am not a technical person and to keep it simple cos some say I am simple read below.
Your Pajero should have a max tow ball weight you can use either on the tow bar somewhere or in the owners manual or both
You say your Avan has a ATM of 1930kg.
The maths say tow ball weight of the van is 10% of ATM so, 10% of 1930kg = 193kg, should be the max of the tow ball weight off the Avan (loaded) (not the tug)
Hope that helps.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
blaze said
02:27 PM Mar 14, 2019
10% is a common % used, it is not mandated in the ADR
cheers
blaze
ps for my thinking if your within the towball specified weight at 210kgs you are only 17kg over the 10%
Possum3 said
03:53 PM Mar 14, 2019
You say BW is 210 loaded. There is no guarantee water tanks carry same volume of water, plus where is the water heater that most probably has another 15 litres of water that's 15kg. At 210 if you are under max allowable for tow bar You're OK. You can redistribute your load in van to get 194 BW, but as soon as you have a couple of beers or cans of baked beans that will alter your balance.
yobarr said
04:33 PM Mar 14, 2019
Michael Frances wrote:
I am confused over the ball weight saga.
I have an Avan Frances, ATM 1930kg.
Ball weight loaded is 210kg
Sounds high to me?
Avan spec sheet state the BW at 145kg (van empty).
Assuming the water tanks are equal distance from the single axle, full tanks should not increase the ball weight...Is this correct?
Tow vehicle is a 2013 Pajero.
your feedback would be helpful
You have no problem.The Pajero has a towball rating of 250kg,up to 2500kg ATM,so you are well under on both. As long as the rear axle on the car is not overloaded,just go for it! Rear axle is rated at only 1700kg or 1780kg,depending on where you get your figures,but still only lightweight! Provided the tanks are the same capacity,and are the same distance from the axle,the ball weight should not change when tanks are filled.The Avan spec sheet listing 145kg means absolutely nothing,other than thats what it was at the factory.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 14th of March 2019 04:56:21 PM
PeterD said
08:58 AM Mar 15, 2019
There is nothing wrong with ball weights up to 15% if your tow bar will carry it. 15% in your case is approx 190 kg. The ball weights of my vans have been over 10% and they tow OK. If you go over 15% with vans that are near the maximum capacity of your tug they tend to be too stable for your tug to steer and they will push the rear of your van into overseer situations.
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:11 AM Mar 16, 2019
Still on ball weight, I found it interesting that neighbours have just bought a new camper trailer (SUV Mega Deluxe).
According to the local agent's web site (Sahara Trailers), one innovation "is the method ball weight can be reduced by adding an extra 100L water tank" to the back of the trailer.
Ron-D said
09:33 AM Mar 17, 2019
With a single axel van you only have one fulcrum point if your carrying weighty stuff forward of the axel it adds up on the ball weight a lot more than with a dual axel van,its somethin to keep in mind,with ours I try to carry some heavy items in the car forward of the rear axel on the rear seat of the car.
Michael Frances said
04:26 PM Mar 18, 2019
Thanks everyone.
Yes, the Pajero limit for single axle is 250 kg.
It just seems that 210 kg is a lot to me, when the manufacturer is advertising145 kg tare.
But you have put me at ease.
BTW, everyone is using the word TUG.
Does this mean the vehicle?
Stop laughing, l am a novice.
Regards Michael
yobarr said
05:21 PM Mar 18, 2019
Michael Frances wrote:
Thanks everyone. Yes, the Pajero limit for single axle is 250 kg. It just seems that 210 kg is a lot to me, when the manufacturer is advertising145 kg tare. But you have put me at ease. BTW, everyone is using the word TUG. Does this mean the vehicle? Stop laughing, l am a novice. Regards Michael
Thats a term I refuse to use.If that is what the car is called,what would you call the driver? Tugs spend their time floating in the around the harbour,bullying ships around.Cheers
Craig1 said
09:22 PM Mar 18, 2019
what would you call the tugboat driver?, skipper, tugger, drover ?
yobarr said
10:06 AM Mar 19, 2019
Craig1 wrote:
what would you call the tugboat driver?, skipper, tugger, drover ?
He would be a Skipper,Id say. Your second option would perhaps be more apt for one who drives a car,but calls it a something else? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 10:07:20 AM
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 10:51:52 AM
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 10:53:15 AM
Warren-Pat_01 said
12:27 AM Mar 20, 2019
Michael Frances,
Welcome to the forum & the warped sense of humour of some of my forum peers!
I agree with yobarr. Some of the scrawny cars towing vans around today definitely don't have the strength of the marine tug!
Ron-D said
05:17 PM Mar 21, 2019
Theres a lot of people that call there towing machine a tug ,I dont personally use that term but I can understand it being used ,is a tug not a towing machine,just on a different surface
Craig1 said
09:11 PM Mar 21, 2019
Bit like an ice berg, some on the surface , some under it. ( "warped", can be a term used to move a boat or ship using anchors and rope)
Rip and Rosie said
09:08 AM Mar 23, 2019
We have a new van.
Had the usual shakedown trip, and IMHO it wasn't towing correctly....car was down at the back, up at the front.
The van is single axle, with a tare of 1946 kgs, BW 190kgs. Tug is a Territory RWD with a towing capacity of 2300kgs and BW limit of 230 kgs.
We had been back to the dealer....twice.once to have a HR set of bars fitted (which helped bring the car a bit more level) and once to be told we were "soft in the rear springs".
Took ourselves off to Pedders where they offer an assessment of weights and suspension for $75 . just the shot I thought.
I almost had a stroke when the ball weight came in at 280kgs.
Caravan axle weight was 1892 kgs
Rear axle of the car was 1342kgs with the van and 1014 kgs without it.
Front axle of the car was 1038 kgs with van and 1157 kg without it.
Before you all ask......we had on board 2 x 9kg gas bottles, almost empty water tanks, ..tunnel boot has hoses, floor mats and shade cloth, small tool box (5kgs) and a 9kg folding table.
No generator, BBQ, bikes, or other gear etc etc.
yobarr said
12:59 PM Mar 23, 2019
Rip and Rosie wrote:
We have a new van. Had the usual shakedown trip, and IMHO it wasn't towing correctly....car was down at the back, up at the front. The van is single axle, with a tare of 1946 kgs, BW 190kgs. Tug is a Territory RWD with a towing capacity of 2300kgs and BW limit of 230 kgs. We had been back to the dealer....twice.once to have a HR set of bars fitted (which helped bring the car a bit more level) and once to be told we were "soft in the rear springs" Took ourselves off to Pedders where they offer an assessment of weights and suspension for $75 . just the shot I thought. I almost had a stroke when the ball weight came in at 280kgs. Caravan axle weight was 1892 kgs Rear axle of the car was 1342kgs with the van and 1014 kgs without it. Front axle of the car was 1038 kgs with van and 1157 kg without it. Before you all ask......we had on board 2 x 9kg gas bottles, almost empty water tanks, ..tunnel boot has hoses, floor mats and shade cloth, small tool box (5kgs) and a 9kg folding table. No generator, BBQ, bikes, or other gear etc etc.
What size are your brakes? If they are 10 inch your maximum axle weight can be no more than 1600kg if you have 13 or 14 inch wheels.If your wheels are 15 or 16 inch,that maximum weight drops to 1400kg.Be aware that a WDH ADDS weight to your vans axle,as well as to the cars front axle.Cheers
Rip and Rosie said
04:18 PM Mar 23, 2019
yobarr wrote:
What size are your brakes? If they are 10 inch your maximum axle weight can be no more than 1600kg if you have 13 or 14 inch wheels.If your wheels are 15 or 16 inch,that maximum weight drops to 1400kg.Be aware that a WDH ADDS weight to your vans axle,as well as to the cars front axle.Cheers
Oh we are TOTALLY aware that we cant tow this van.....now we are anyway.
Should have been well within the capacity of the Territory, until the ball weight raised its ugly head.
I am confused over the ball weight saga.
I have an Avan Frances, ATM 1930kg.
Ball weight loaded is 210kg
Sounds high to me?
Avan spec sheet state the BW at 145kg (van empty).
Assuming the water tanks are equal distance from the single axle, full tanks should not increase the ball weight...Is this correct?
Tow vehicle is a 2013 Pajero.
your feedback would be helpful
Welcome to the gang Michael, enjoy here and out in the playground.
and to keep it simple cos some say I am simple 
read below.
Without getting to technical because I am not a technical person
Your Pajero should have a max tow ball weight you can use either on the tow bar somewhere or in the owners manual or both
You say your Avan has a ATM of 1930kg.
The maths say tow ball weight of the van is 10% of ATM so, 10% of 1930kg = 193kg, should be the max of the tow ball weight off the Avan (loaded) (not the tug)
Hope that helps.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
cheers
blaze
ps for my thinking if your within the towball specified weight at 210kgs you are only 17kg over the 10%
You have no problem.The Pajero has a towball rating of 250kg,up to 2500kg ATM,so you are well under on both. As long as the rear axle on the car is not overloaded,just go for it! Rear axle is rated at only 1700kg or 1780kg,depending on where you get your figures,but still only lightweight! Provided the tanks are the same capacity,and are the same distance from the axle,the ball weight should not change when tanks are filled.The Avan spec sheet listing 145kg means absolutely nothing,other than thats what it was at the factory.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 14th of March 2019 04:56:21 PM
According to the local agent's web site (Sahara Trailers), one innovation "is the method ball weight can be reduced by adding an extra 100L water tank" to the back of the trailer.
With a single axel van you only have one fulcrum point if your carrying weighty stuff forward of the axel it adds up on the ball weight a lot more than with a dual axel van,its somethin to keep in mind,with ours I try to carry some heavy items in the car forward of the rear axel on the rear seat of the car.
Thats a term I refuse to use.If that is what the car is called,what would you call the driver? Tugs spend their time floating in the around the harbour,bullying ships around.Cheers
He would be a Skipper,Id say. Your second option would perhaps be more apt for one who drives a car,but calls it a something else? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 10:07:20 AM
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 10:51:52 AM
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 10:53:15 AM
Welcome to the forum & the warped sense of humour of some of my forum peers!
I agree with yobarr. Some of the scrawny cars towing vans around today definitely don't have the strength of the marine tug!
Theres a lot of people that call there towing machine a tug ,I dont personally use that term but I can understand it being used ,is a tug not a towing machine,just on a different surface
Had the usual shakedown trip, and IMHO it wasn't towing correctly....car was down at the back, up at the front.
The van is single axle, with a tare of 1946 kgs, BW 190kgs. Tug is a Territory RWD with a towing capacity of 2300kgs and BW limit of 230 kgs.
We had been back to the dealer....twice.once to have a HR set of bars fitted (which helped bring the car a bit more level) and once to be told we were "soft in the rear springs".
Took ourselves off to Pedders where they offer an assessment of weights and suspension for $75 . just the shot I thought.
I almost had a stroke when the ball weight came in at 280kgs.
Caravan axle weight was 1892 kgs
Rear axle of the car was 1342kgs with the van and 1014 kgs without it.
Front axle of the car was 1038 kgs with van and 1157 kg without it.
Before you all ask......we had on board 2 x 9kg gas bottles, almost empty water tanks, ..tunnel boot has hoses, floor mats and shade cloth, small tool box (5kgs) and a 9kg folding table.
No generator, BBQ, bikes, or other gear etc etc.
What size are your brakes? If they are 10 inch your maximum axle weight can be no more than 1600kg if you have 13 or 14 inch wheels.If your wheels are 15 or 16 inch,that maximum weight drops to 1400kg.Be aware that a WDH ADDS weight to your vans axle,as well as to the cars front axle.Cheers
Oh we are TOTALLY aware that we cant tow this van.....now we are anyway.
Should have been well within the capacity of the Territory, until the ball weight raised its ugly head.