i know theres a solar sect , but curious if anyone has used the flexible panels on their van roof and if so how were they installed , do they have to be spaced off the room to prevent corrosion of alum.
T1 Terry said
11:30 AM Apr 9, 2019
In all seriousness, delay going with the semi flexible panels for a while. Look through the solar section and you will see all the attempts we have gone through to stop the failures. I have now given up on them until a manufacturer actually proves they have a product that will last for a min of 5 yrs in the Australian sun without failing surface finish or connection grid between the modules.
T1 Terry
mezza56 said
02:03 PM Apr 10, 2019
Thxs Terry , you certainly lashed out on those panels in good faith as did Peter OKA, what have been the issues , they state a 5 year warranty at solar4rvs. I have found a good system for installing them with good airfow all directions and keeping them to minimum flex .
-- Edited by mezza56 on Wednesday 10th of April 2019 02:06:42 PM
Izabarack said
02:07 PM Apr 10, 2019
mezza56 wrote:
i know theres a solar sect , but curious if anyone has used the flexible panels on their van roof and if so how were they installed , do they have to be spaced off the room to prevent corrosion of alum.
Friend mounted two 120 Watt semi-flex panels on his roof on 50x50 mm Alum tube standoffs. 2 Kg per panel vs more than 8 Kg per glass panel. Rear most panel is fastened to standoffs with Pip pins/ball lock pins for quick removal when he parks in the shade and wants to put a panel in the sun. No issues in four years.
Iza
Whenarewethere said
05:09 PM Apr 10, 2019
50 x 50 x 2mm square hollow aluminium is 1.04kg per metre.
T1 Terry said
05:52 PM Apr 10, 2019
mezza56 wrote:
Thxs Terry , you certainly lashed out on those panels in good faith as did Peter OKA, what have been the issues , they state a 5 year warranty at solar4rvs. I have found a good system for installing them with good airfow all directions and keeping them to minimum flex .
-- Edited by mezza56 on Wednesday 10th of April 2019 02:06:42 PM
Solar4RV have had their problems with the semi flexibles as well. First we thought the uneven expansion between the coreflute and the panels was tearing them apart, then we stumbled upon the blocking diode solution stopping the reverse current flow turning the modules into heater elements, but the latest problem appears to be related to the heat inside the panel causing the solder in the junctions between the modules to fail. That last one is more of an assumption than a proven thing at the moment, just don't have the time to dedicate to exploring the problems further.
It will be interesting to see how Peter goes with his panels, the problems don't appear to surface until the panels have been exposed to long hot summer days through summer and early Autumn, even then it is less than a 50% failure rate. Even a 10% failure rate is too much, so we have decided we can't afford to continue using them until things improve.
T1 Terry
mezza56 said
06:09 PM Apr 10, 2019
Thxs for the feedback Terry , if the same cell construction tech is applied to rigid panels why they dont have the same failure rate? Or is it that the rigid panels dissipate the heat better ? From the pic of ur van it looked as if they had sufficient clearance from the roof surface ? We're the panels of a reputable manufacturer or off ebay . Looking at the prices on ebay theres definitely a big desparity compared to brand names.
Whenarewethere said
06:35 PM Apr 10, 2019
Could the non rigid panels be oscillating in the wind at certain speeds. A bit like the sides of trucks. The oscillating may be small enough not to be perceivable, but enough to damage the panels if not fully fastened over their entire surface.
It maybe that the rigid panel is rigid enough to stop this movement. Just a thought!
T1 Terry said
03:48 PM Apr 11, 2019
mezza56 wrote:
Thxs for the feedback Terry , if the same cell construction tech is applied to rigid panels why they dont have the same failure rate? Or is it that the rigid panels dissipate the heat better ? From the pic of ur van it looked as if they had sufficient clearance from the roof surface ? We're the panels of a reputable manufacturer or off ebay . Looking at the prices on ebay theres definitely a big desparity compared to brand names.
Different construction methods using much smaller components that act as blocking diodes for each module. That was the reason for adding the blocking diodes to prevent the back current damaging or destroying the modules.
The construction of rigid panels starts with a sheet of low lead glass, then a sticky film is applied, then the components are placed on the stricky surface and the joints soldered where applicable, then the backing sheet is applied.
The semi flexible panels are assembled the other way around, backing, sticky sheet electrical grid, modules and then a clear substance sprayed over the top. Then sometimes another film to make them non reflective. This burns off like sun burnt skin and flakes leaving a rather ugly finish, but the panel still seems to perform, just looks bad. The shiny finished ones seem to be affected and go dull, but a coat of polish when they are new seems to stop that happening.
As far as the wind vibrating the panels, we have had panels with a strip of aluminium U section along the edge that faces the wind when travelling to stop them tearing off, some of the panels have failed while others still work, and others with no protection are still working fine, yet others fail, so no real pattern as yet. The 5er we fitted 19 x 100w panels on the roof had the first lot suffer the sun burn look, so we replaced them and added the diodes, they are still working fine, yet this van that had 10 panels fitted and many of them failed, so we travelled to WA and replaced them and fitted the diodes, now just over 12 mths later, 4 have failed and one partly failed, yet no visible signs as to why they failed. It could simply be poor manufacturing techniques, it could be just something that can't handle the heat and expansion and contraction involved with the harsh Australian sun and high temps .... I don't know and we sure can't afford to keep throwing money at a problem we don't seem to have an answer for yet, so we will wait and see how others go with their set ups.
I know some tried building their own panels on clear thin Lexan sheet so they could mould them to the roof profile and discovered the Lexan expanded so much it tore the modules apart, so maybe the clear coating on these semi flexible panels moves the whole module but the electrical grid being attached to the backing material doesn't move as far, eventually a module becomes disconnected from the grid on the backing sheet and that is the death of the panel. Just an assumption on my part, I just don't know.
In the early days we had a panel come unglued from the backing on all but one corner. It flapped folded over backwards for 200km on a return trip from the NSW south coast back to Wollongong. The module where it had folded over had creases in it and we replaced it, but the panel actually still worked. I mounted it in a frame with fly screen door mesh at the back to support it and made a hinged leg to stand it up as a portable panel. well over 4 yrs now and it's still going, a mate uses it for his Lite Ace van that he lives in and tells me it still works each time he puts it out. It has been blown across the asphalt car park heaps of times, yet it still works, scratches and all, so who knows?
T1 Terry
mezza56 said
04:12 PM Apr 11, 2019
Thxs again , rather than toss good money , I've decided to add two fixed 160w panels , seeing as its only the two it wont be too great a weight gain. If it worked I was going to change the lot to flex so it would be a neg weight instead of +.
T1 Terry said
02:56 PM Apr 12, 2019
mezza56 wrote:
Thxs again , rather than toss good money , I've decided to add two fixed 160w panels , seeing as its only the two it wont be too great a weight gain. If it worked I was going to change the lot to flex so it would be a neg weight instead of +.
We went with 2x 60w panels to replace each 100w semi flexible, they are reasonably light and only added 3kg to the weight the 100w semi flexible were and added 20w. A bit of addition work involved in wiring and mounting, but if you are doing it yourself then the cost is in blood sweet and tears rather than $$
T1 Terry
Aus-Kiwi said
04:04 PM Apr 16, 2019
When I added extra solar to motorhome . I looked at flexible . Thought the original panels are doing ok . So duplicated how they are fitted . The only reason for me to consider flex ? Was to fit on curved roof section . Up front . Would assist in insulation? But liable to damage from hitting trees etc . Even though they fit flush .
i know theres a solar sect , but curious if anyone has used the flexible panels on their van roof and if so how were they installed , do they have to be spaced off the room to prevent corrosion of alum.
T1 Terry
Thxs Terry , you certainly lashed out on those panels in good faith as did Peter OKA, what have been the issues , they state a 5 year warranty at solar4rvs. I have found a good system for installing them with good airfow all directions and keeping them to minimum flex .
-- Edited by mezza56 on Wednesday 10th of April 2019 02:06:42 PM
Friend mounted two 120 Watt semi-flex panels on his roof on 50x50 mm Alum tube standoffs. 2 Kg per panel vs more than 8 Kg per glass panel. Rear most panel is fastened to standoffs with Pip pins/ball lock pins for quick removal when he parks in the shade and wants to put a panel in the sun. No issues in four years.
Iza
50 x 50 x 2mm square hollow aluminium is 1.04kg per metre.
Solar4RV have had their problems with the semi flexibles as well. First we thought the uneven expansion between the coreflute and the panels was tearing them apart, then we stumbled upon the blocking diode solution stopping the reverse current flow turning the modules into heater elements, but the latest problem appears to be related to the heat inside the panel causing the solder in the junctions between the modules to fail. That last one is more of an assumption than a proven thing at the moment, just don't have the time to dedicate to exploring the problems further.
It will be interesting to see how Peter goes with his panels, the problems don't appear to surface until the panels have been exposed to long hot summer days through summer and early Autumn, even then it is less than a 50% failure rate. Even a 10% failure rate is too much, so we have decided we can't afford to continue using them until things improve.
T1 Terry
Thxs for the feedback Terry , if the same cell construction tech is applied to rigid panels why they dont have the same failure rate? Or is it that the rigid panels dissipate the heat better ? From the pic of ur van it looked as if they had sufficient clearance from the roof surface ? We're the panels of a reputable manufacturer or off ebay . Looking at the prices on ebay theres definitely a big desparity compared to brand names.
Could the non rigid panels be oscillating in the wind at certain speeds. A bit like the sides of trucks. The oscillating may be small enough not to be perceivable, but enough to damage the panels if not fully fastened over their entire surface.
It maybe that the rigid panel is rigid enough to stop this movement. Just a thought!
Different construction methods using much smaller components that act as blocking diodes for each module. That was the reason for adding the blocking diodes to prevent the back current damaging or destroying the modules.
The construction of rigid panels starts with a sheet of low lead glass, then a sticky film is applied, then the components are placed on the stricky surface and the joints soldered where applicable, then the backing sheet is applied.
The semi flexible panels are assembled the other way around, backing, sticky sheet electrical grid, modules and then a clear substance sprayed over the top. Then sometimes another film to make them non reflective. This burns off like sun burnt skin and flakes leaving a rather ugly finish, but the panel still seems to perform, just looks bad. The shiny finished ones seem to be affected and go dull, but a coat of polish when they are new seems to stop that happening.
As far as the wind vibrating the panels, we have had panels with a strip of aluminium U section along the edge that faces the wind when travelling to stop them tearing off, some of the panels have failed while others still work, and others with no protection are still working fine, yet others fail, so no real pattern as yet. The 5er we fitted 19 x 100w panels on the roof had the first lot suffer the sun burn look, so we replaced them and added the diodes, they are still working fine, yet this van that had 10 panels fitted and many of them failed, so we travelled to WA and replaced them and fitted the diodes, now just over 12 mths later, 4 have failed and one partly failed, yet no visible signs as to why they failed. It could simply be poor manufacturing techniques, it could be just something that can't handle the heat and expansion and contraction involved with the harsh Australian sun and high temps .... I don't know and we sure can't afford to keep throwing money at a problem we don't seem to have an answer for yet, so we will wait and see how others go with their set ups.
I know some tried building their own panels on clear thin Lexan sheet so they could mould them to the roof profile and discovered the Lexan expanded so much it tore the modules apart, so maybe the clear coating on these semi flexible panels moves the whole module but the electrical grid being attached to the backing material doesn't move as far, eventually a module becomes disconnected from the grid on the backing sheet and that is the death of the panel. Just an assumption on my part, I just don't know.
In the early days we had a panel come unglued from the backing on all but one corner. It flapped folded over backwards for 200km on a return trip from the NSW south coast back to Wollongong. The module where it had folded over had creases in it and we replaced it, but the panel actually still worked. I mounted it in a frame with fly screen door mesh at the back to support it and made a hinged leg to stand it up as a portable panel. well over 4 yrs now and it's still going, a mate uses it for his Lite Ace van that he lives in and tells me it still works each time he puts it out. It has been blown across the asphalt car park heaps of times, yet it still works, scratches and all, so who knows?
T1 Terry
Thxs again , rather than toss good money , I've decided to add two fixed 160w panels , seeing as its only the two it wont be too great a weight gain. If it worked I was going to change the lot to flex so it would be a neg weight instead of +.
We went with 2x 60w panels to replace each 100w semi flexible, they are reasonably light and only added 3kg to the weight the 100w semi flexible were and added 20w. A bit of addition work involved in wiring and mounting, but if you are doing it yourself then the cost is in blood sweet and tears rather than $$
T1 Terry