Embarrassed to admit it but our newly built van after a 150km round trip on it maiden voyage to Yarrawonga was fully checked except the wheels and bearings. I got distracted with all the internal changes we wanted to make.
For the next rip we headed off to western Victoria from Euroa and along the Geelong bypass a vibration and noise alerted me to an anomaly - We nearly lost our passenger side caravan wheel.
One stud had sheered off. the other four were worn a little. Wheel was destroyed see pic (only $28 worth for a new rim). The wheel bearing was a little loose. Had some spare nuts and decided to check the other side. Had to be quick as traffic was thick and people get killed easy that way. Found 3 nuts loose there also. That wheel bearing was ok.
At home checked the brakes. The drivers side had one front shoe sticking on. It had worn down quite a bit. It appeared the top slider that expands the shoes had jammed. A small squirt of silicone lubricant freed it up immediately.
But for the technically minded we had another separate issue. There is a hill about 10km from home. We towed our van up the hill and our Holden v6 engine lost power. After checking everything I assumed incorrectly that the petrol gauge had jammed at 1/4 full but believed we ran out of fuel. RACV called and they put 10 litres into the tank (no charge all part of the service for total care) and the engine ran. We of course believed I had ran out of fuel at that point.
As a matter of interest I wanted to show the RACV guy the sump on my fuel tank so we looked under the boot of the car and there was a squirt of petrol coming from the fuel pump straight onto the ground not unlike a water pistol squirt. So we located the fuel connection and fixed it enough to get home where I used a product called "STAG" compound just for fuel connections and all good. The mechanic suggested that when my fuel level reached a certain level with that leak, it began sucking in air when accelerating which the fuel regulator couldn't perform its job and sent the computer into shut down.
But it does also explain why I got 25L/100kms on the last leg of the journey, normally 14-19 depending on head/tail wind.
So I'll always stop to check my wheel nuts and upon returning home every so often the bearings also.
there is some shonky builders out there tony, thought it would have been picked up in pre delivery
cheers
blaze
Eaglemax said
06:57 PM May 12, 2019
Umm, I built the van myself Blaze...lol Totally my fault. :)
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Sunday 12th of May 2019 06:57:37 PM
2foot6 said
07:10 PM May 12, 2019
Don't feel to bad Tony,when we bought our caravan in 2005 and our motorhome in 2009 we were told by the dealerships to check the wheel nuts at 300 ks and 1000 ks because they can work loose and a couple of nuts did...........Peter.
blaze said
11:32 AM May 13, 2019
Eaglemax wrote:
Umm, I built the van myself Blaze...lol Totally my fault. :)
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Sunday 12th of May 2019 06:57:37 PM
yeh I know, hence the smiles,
I am a mechanic and too long at it and rest assured we all make ****ups
Eaglemax said
01:27 PM May 13, 2019
Oh
Yes, mistakes
Can be costly. In this case just got the cost -$68. Cant complain at that.
Tony
Craig1 said
09:09 PM May 13, 2019
Yah picked a fine time to leave me " Lucille"
swamp said
02:37 AM May 14, 2019
hi Those Chinese sunraysia rims are noted for giving trouble . The list of faults is long with them . Cracking Rim is not thick enough around nut seat area causing nuts to come loose seat area is to thin [not enough contact surface ] nut bottoms out on hub and does not clamp wheel properly
Always lube wheel studs with silver grade antiseize . Wheel nut tensions and does not bind on thread
It is preferable the centre hole -centre bore in rim locate on wheel hub
-- Edited by swamp on Tuesday 14th of May 2019 02:39:18 AM
Eaglemax said
06:56 PM May 14, 2019
Thanks Swamp
The retail outlet now told me wheel nuts should be done up to 110 nm so will use my torque wrench. As the van is only 730kg tare I'll keep checking for cracks.
Definitely will use the anti seize
I'll persist with the wheels at this stage but that is great info. Tony
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Tuesday 14th of May 2019 06:58:49 PM
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Tuesday 14th of May 2019 07:01:22 PM
Mariner30 said
06:57 PM May 14, 2019
2foot6 wrote:
Don't feel to bad Tony,when we bought our caravan in 2005 and our motorhome in 2009 we were told by the dealerships to check the wheel nuts at 300 ks and 1000 ks because they can work loose and a couple of nuts did...........Peter.
G'day
I was a truck driver for nearly forty years....30 of them with one company,
Heavy rigids and semis mostly,
Whenever tyres were removed for whatever reason we had to stop and check all the wheel nuts within 50ks of leaving the yard,
Had to sign a ticket when done
Eaglemax said
07:00 PM May 14, 2019
Thanks Mariner
Good point
Tony
Craig1 said
10:27 PM May 14, 2019
Why do they loosen on vans, but seldom on cars/suv ? except maybe on early Valiants when loosend on left side by mistake when checking?
rockylizard said
07:38 AM May 15, 2019
Craig1 wrote:
Why do they loosen on vans, but seldom on cars/suv ? except maybe on early Valiants when loosend on left side by mistake when checking?
Gday...
Continual vibrations and occasional heavy impacts from road surfaces have an adverse effect on the wheel assemblies and this is severely aggravated if the tyre pressures or the spring rates are too high for the actual wheel-loading.
Stresses on the wheel assemblies are further increased if shock absorbers are not fitted.
Leaf springs do provide some damping of vibrations, but unfortunately it is mainly on the bump (upwards) movement of the wheel, rather than on the rebound (downwards) movement of the wheel, unless rebound leaves are fitted to the top of the spring packs.
HI
Worked for years and years doing mining utes . To give u an idea how harsh the conditions were . Complete front/rear brake / suspension rebuild every 3 mths . Steering joints every 6mths .
Astoundingly the wheels never came loose NEVER .
Factory steel rims with silver never seize on threads .
Eaglemax said
04:27 PM May 15, 2019
swamp wrote:
HI Worked for years and years doing mining utes . To give u an idea how harsh the conditions were . Complete front/rear brake / suspension rebuild every 3 mths . Steering joints every 6mths .
Astoundingly the wheels never came loose NEVER .
Factory steel rims with silver never seize on threads .
yep I'll be using that silver anti seize.
Eaglemax said
04:29 PM May 15, 2019
rockylizard wrote:
Craig1 wrote:
Why do they loosen on vans, but seldom on cars/suv ? except maybe on early Valiants when loosend on left side by mistake when checking?
Gday...
Continual vibrations and occasional heavy impacts from road surfaces have an adverse effect on the wheel assemblies and this is severely aggravated if the tyre pressures or the spring rates are too high for the actual wheel-loading.
Stresses on the wheel assemblies are further increased if shock absorbers are not fitted.
Leaf springs do provide some damping of vibrations, but unfortunately it is mainly on the bump (upwards) movement of the wheel, rather than on the rebound (downwards) movement of the wheel, unless rebound leaves are fitted to the top of the spring packs.
Thanks John for that info which is always gratefully received. Had I had the music on the wheel would have departed and although insured it would have made a mess of the new classing and some floor area. 6 months work with damage. We have "check wheel nut tension" on our check list now.
Tony
Mamil said
09:49 PM May 15, 2019
Been there, done that, $15,000 repair bill... Now check tyre pressures, wheel nut torque, bearing play, and brakes spinning free before every journey!
HI
Never seen wheel bolts on anything that's heavy duty.
In general wheel stud /brake /wheel design all needs looking at. Have any of these as cheap Chinese products and they will fail . They do every time when fitted to a car and or taxi etc .
Cheap brakes wear out quick with poor performance
cheap studs break and or stretch then bind
wheel nuts wear on taper and can bottom out taper shape is poor
bad wheels wear out stud holes and nut taper
bad wheel design does not locate centre bore
Some caravans seem to be full of cheap parts
Mamil said
10:07 AM May 16, 2019
Hi Swamp, I know you weren't necessarily aiming those comments at me, but just in case others make a link between your very valid observations and my incident above, I'd like to set the record straight. Mine is a lightweight on-road van with ATM 1600kg. The chassis, axle, brakes and suspension are all Alko made in Germany. The wheels are made in England. In fact there's nothing much Chinese on my van except the wife, and she's the export model anyway
-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 16th of May 2019 12:12:16 PM
Eaglemax said
03:00 PM May 16, 2019
swamp wrote:
HI Never seen wheel bolts on anything that's heavy duty.
In general wheel stud /brake /wheel design all needs looking at. Have any of these as cheap Chinese products and they will fail . They do every time when fitted to a car and or taxi etc . Cheap brakes wear out quick with poor performance cheap studs break and or stretch then bind wheel nuts wear on taper and can bottom out taper shape is poor bad wheels wear out stud holes and nut taper bad wheel design does not locate centre bore
Some caravans seem to be full of cheap parts
Yes valid points Swamp. I just went and checked my wheel nuts and wheels to see if the nut could penetrate the wheel stud holes and they cannot (see pic). So that is good. My drums and brakes are 9" ALKO. But my sunraysia wheels are unbranded so must be or will assume to be Chinese. Wheels cracking is something I'll keep a look out on.
One factor in my thinking is my 16ft caravan has a tare of only 730kg ATM 998 kg so we are not talking a huge weight here. Towball 85kg max. I have less around 400kg on each wheel. I think based on that the wheels should not crack or cause issues.
I think that the fact all the components were new - studs, wheels, nuts and the van had been towed about 400kms without the nuts being checked was the recipe for the incident. Ive now been told the torque for the nuts is to be 110nm.
Been there, done that, $15,000 repair bill... Now check tyre pressures, wheel nut torque, bearing play, and brakes spinning free before every journey!
I will also in fact also at the first fill up.!!
Tony
swamp said
06:29 PM May 17, 2019
Hi
Yup
Maybe I should rephrase my comment ,anything of poor design .
Wheel bolts are from memory only used on light duty applications .
Then something which effects everyone the wheel nut taper and the wheel nut tapered seat in the wheel . Plus the tapered seat in the wheel being raised a 1mm or so . Adds spring tension to nut ..Almost forgot the tapered seat in the rim is very narrow in cheap rims also . Apply to wheel bolts as well where nut and stud are 1 piece . This area is sadly lacking in many trailers .
Tensioning at factory on cars is done but although suppose to be done at predelivery its not inmost cases .
Remember most factory vehicle wheels are built to a higher standard than a trailer rim especially if Chinese.
denmonkey said
11:18 AM May 22, 2019
One of the boys at work had a Mamil moment as per above.
Ripped a hole under his fridge where stuff was stored and it all went out the hole :)
He had it fixed under insurance though, to which I was surprised to hear .
At the start of every trip either home or away, I do a few Kms and then pull over for a quick walk around which includes checking bearing temps , pop top latches, windows, chains, hitch and a quick look under the van.
It's not perfect but does provide some piece of mind.
Embarrassed to admit it but our newly built van after a 150km round trip on it maiden voyage to Yarrawonga was fully checked except the wheels and bearings. I got distracted with all the internal changes we wanted to make.
For the next rip we headed off to western Victoria from Euroa and along the Geelong bypass a vibration and noise alerted me to an anomaly - We nearly lost our passenger side caravan wheel.
One stud had sheered off. the other four were worn a little. Wheel was destroyed see pic (only $28 worth for a new rim). The wheel bearing was a little loose. Had some spare nuts and decided to check the other side. Had to be quick as traffic was thick and people get killed easy that way. Found 3 nuts loose there also. That wheel bearing was ok.
At home checked the brakes. The drivers side had one front shoe sticking on. It had worn down quite a bit. It appeared the top slider that expands the shoes had jammed. A small squirt of silicone lubricant freed it up immediately.
But for the technically minded we had another separate issue. There is a hill about 10km from home. We towed our van up the hill and our Holden v6 engine lost power. After checking everything I assumed incorrectly that the petrol gauge had jammed at 1/4 full but believed we ran out of fuel. RACV called and they put 10 litres into the tank (no charge all part of the service for total care) and the engine ran. We of course believed I had ran out of fuel at that point.
As a matter of interest I wanted to show the RACV guy the sump on my fuel tank so we looked under the boot of the car and there was a squirt of petrol coming from the fuel pump straight onto the ground not unlike a water pistol squirt. So we located the fuel connection and fixed it enough to get home where I used a product called "STAG" compound just for fuel connections and all good. The mechanic suggested that when my fuel level reached a certain level with that leak, it began sucking in air when accelerating which the fuel regulator couldn't perform its job and sent the computer into shut down.
But it does also explain why I got 25L/100kms on the last leg of the journey, normally 14-19 depending on head/tail wind.
So I'll always stop to check my wheel nuts and upon returning home every so often the bearings also.
Tony
there is some shonky builders out there tony, thought it would have been picked up in pre delivery
cheers
blaze
Umm, I built the van myself Blaze...lol
Totally my fault. :)
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Sunday 12th of May 2019 06:57:37 PM
yeh I know, hence the smiles,
I am a mechanic and too long at it and rest assured we all make ****ups
Yes, mistakes
Can be costly. In this case just got the cost -$68. Cant complain at that.
Tony
hi
Those Chinese sunraysia rims are noted for giving trouble . The list of faults is long with them .
Cracking
Rim is not thick enough around nut seat area causing nuts to come loose
seat area is to thin [not enough contact surface ]
nut bottoms out on hub and does not clamp wheel properly
Always lube wheel studs with silver grade antiseize . Wheel nut tensions and does not bind on thread
It is preferable the centre hole -centre bore in rim locate on wheel hub
-- Edited by swamp on Tuesday 14th of May 2019 02:39:18 AM
Thanks Swamp
The retail outlet now told me wheel nuts should be done up to 110 nm so will use my torque wrench. As the van is only 730kg tare I'll keep checking for cracks.
Definitely will use the anti seize
I'll persist with the wheels at this stage but that is great info.
Tony
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Tuesday 14th of May 2019 06:58:49 PM
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Tuesday 14th of May 2019 07:01:22 PM
G'day
I was a truck driver for nearly forty years....30 of them with one company,
Heavy rigids and semis mostly,
Whenever tyres were removed for whatever reason we had to stop and check all the wheel nuts within 50ks of leaving the yard,
Had to sign a ticket when done
Good point
Tony
Gday...
Continual vibrations and occasional heavy impacts from road surfaces have an adverse effect on the wheel assemblies and this is severely aggravated if the tyre pressures or the spring rates are too high for the actual wheel-loading.
Stresses on the wheel assemblies are further increased if shock absorbers are not fitted.
Leaf springs do provide some damping of vibrations, but unfortunately it is mainly on the bump (upwards) movement of the wheel, rather than on the rebound (downwards) movement of the wheel, unless rebound leaves are fitted to the top of the spring packs.
https://www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/driving-towing-towing/busted-wheel-studs-and-loose-wheel-nuts-june-2018
Cheers - John
Worked for years and years doing mining utes . To give u an idea how harsh the conditions were . Complete front/rear brake / suspension rebuild every 3 mths . Steering joints every 6mths .
Astoundingly the wheels never came loose NEVER .
Factory steel rims with silver never seize on threads .
yep I'll be using that silver anti seize.
Thanks John for that info which is always gratefully received. Had I had the music on the wheel would have departed and although insured it would have made a mess of the new classing and some floor area. 6 months work with damage. We have "check wheel nut tension" on our check list now.
Tony
Been there, done that, $15,000 repair bill...
Now check tyre pressures, wheel nut torque, bearing play, and brakes spinning free before every journey!
Never seen wheel bolts on anything that's heavy duty.
In general wheel stud /brake /wheel design all needs looking at. Have any of these as cheap Chinese products and they will fail . They do every time when fitted to a car and or taxi etc .
Cheap brakes wear out quick with poor performance
cheap studs break and or stretch then bind
wheel nuts wear on taper and can bottom out taper shape is poor
bad wheels wear out stud holes and nut taper
bad wheel design does not locate centre bore
Some caravans seem to be full of cheap parts
Hi Swamp, I know you weren't necessarily aiming those comments at me, but just in case others make a link between your very valid observations and my incident above, I'd like to set the record straight. Mine is a lightweight on-road van with ATM 1600kg. The chassis, axle, brakes and suspension are all Alko made in Germany. The wheels are made in England. In fact there's nothing much Chinese on my van except the wife, and she's the export model anyway
-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 16th of May 2019 12:12:16 PM
Yes valid points Swamp. I just went and checked my wheel nuts and wheels to see if the nut could penetrate the wheel stud holes and they cannot (see pic). So that is good. My drums and brakes are 9" ALKO. But my sunraysia wheels are unbranded so must be or will assume to be Chinese. Wheels cracking is something I'll keep a look out on.
One factor in my thinking is my 16ft caravan has a tare of only 730kg ATM 998 kg so we are not talking a huge weight here. Towball 85kg max. I have less around 400kg on each wheel. I think based on that the wheels should not crack or cause issues.
I think that the fact all the components were new - studs, wheels, nuts and the van had been towed about 400kms without the nuts being checked was the recipe for the incident. Ive now been told the torque for the nuts is to be 110nm.
Tony
I will also in fact also at the first fill up.!!
Tony
Yup
Maybe I should rephrase my comment ,anything of poor design .
Wheel bolts are from memory only used on light duty applications .
Then something which effects everyone the wheel nut taper and the wheel nut tapered seat in the wheel . Plus the tapered seat in the wheel being raised a 1mm or so . Adds spring tension to nut ..Almost forgot the tapered seat in the rim is very narrow in cheap rims also . Apply to wheel bolts as well where nut and stud are 1 piece . This area is sadly lacking in many trailers .
Tensioning at factory on cars is done but although suppose to be done at predelivery its not inmost cases .
Remember most factory vehicle wheels are built to a higher standard than a trailer rim especially if Chinese.
Ripped a hole under his fridge where stuff was stored and it all went out the hole :)
He had it fixed under insurance though, to which I was surprised to hear .
At the start of every trip either home or away, I do a few Kms and then pull over for a quick walk around which includes checking bearing temps , pop top latches, windows, chains, hitch and a quick look under the van.
It's not perfect but does provide some piece of mind.