Whilst reading through the general forum about rear drawer systems, a link to a YouTube video was given. I watched that and the next video was about a canning stock route trip. During this trip a D-Max rear axle housing sheared off outboard of the leaf spring pack. The host of the video was perplexed about how this occurred. Then I spied the airbag sitting between the springs and chassis. Messing with the geometry of suspension systems is asking for trouble
blaze said
10:35 PM Sep 12, 2019
your heading is misleading
airbag suspension does not have any form of springs, coil or leaf it is purely airbags and works well.
when you start jamming bags in where they don't belong you get dramas
they can be put inside coils with some success as you dontchange load points
cheers
blaze
Greg 1 said
11:07 PM Sep 12, 2019
Saw the same video and came to the same conclusion. DMaxes are not normally known for breaking rear axle housings and until I spied the airbag I was a bit perplexed as to why it broke.
Aus-Kiwi said
12:46 PM Sep 13, 2019
Why are they fitted ?? To carry MORE WEIGHT !! Its not exactly the air bags doing the damage . If the axle broke ? Not the chassis rail its the drivers fault for being an idiot . Airbags with PROPER application work well . Plenty of big trucks and semis use them on new vehicles.. if you got a strong coil spring and fitted it the same !! The result WILL be the same !! The old days we used Patrols or Landcruisers . Now we are using 4cyl turbo diesels with much lighter chassis and wandering why theres issues . Ive seen the way some drive towing vans on bumpy rough roads . Its a wander there isnt more accidents . Its never the drivers fault !! Btw Ive had nearly all these vehicles as work trucks as duel cabs . With heavy drums of electrical wire on back. Air bags to assist in weight over axle . We drove them silly at times in national parks . Yes wasnt our vehicle and can be repaired !! We never had axle or chassis issues .. But I guess although we have them some ? We also had some mechanical sympathy . In bush you need a little momentum to get over things !! This is in bushfire or power black out emergencies!! vehicles replaced around 150,000Ks
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 13th of September 2019 12:56:26 PM
Greg 1 said
03:05 PM Sep 13, 2019
Lots of evidence around that air bags are bad news on leaf sprung vehicles. Like a lot of things, just needs the right set of conditions for the damage to occur.
I have used them on a vehicle with coils and would do so again, but would not fit them to any leaf sprung suspension system.
yobarr said
06:04 PM Sep 13, 2019
Greg 1 wrote:
Lots of evidence around that air bags are bad news on leaf sprung vehicles. Like a lot of things, just needs the right set of conditions for the damage to occur. I have used them on a vehicle with coils and would do so again, but would not fit them to any leaf sprung suspension system.
As you say Greg,airbags are fine on coil sprung vehicles.However,they are a no-no with leaf springs because of the point loading that is applied to the chassis between the spring hangers,in an area that is not designed for that task.There are,I believe,some people who do run airbags on leaf sprung vehicles,but they run minimal pressure in those airbags.Cheers
Chris61 said
09:23 PM Sep 13, 2019
I have airbags on my 2011 Colorado and after 8 years they still work perfectly, no broken chassis. I haven't overloaded, only used them as helper springs. Used properly I would recommend them to anyone, abuse them at your peril
Radar said
09:32 PM Sep 13, 2019
We enjoy the added benefit of using air bags on Nissan Narvara now for 6 years with no problem towing our 2.8 tonne caravan with an all up combination gross of 5.6 tonne with about 70 000ks of towing out of 120 000ks touring our great land.
About 8psi empty
About 15 to 18psi loaded.
Yes I am in favour of using air bags but also have spent $2000 on up grading our suspension to do the job of towing.
Aus-Kiwi said
12:16 PM Sep 14, 2019
Its like adding Or modifying anything. If its >not
< done properly ? Its useless!! But dont blame the system !! To actually break an axle ., Theres a few things wrong .
Noelpolar said
02:59 PM Sep 14, 2019
Do some searching... not unkown issue with this vehicle ... always on a heavily loaded outback trip.... one can only wonder at how overloaded the rear axle was.... 20% or more I'd guess.... and rough tracks etc... probally some bits taken a bit to fast.... oh yeah... it was the airbags....
-- Edited by Noelpolar on Saturday 14th of September 2019 03:01:48 PM
-- Edited by Noelpolar on Saturday 14th of September 2019 03:02:27 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
07:10 PM Sep 14, 2019
Howdy everyone,
We're in the process of getting a mid spec D-max & I was handed the latest edition of the official Isuzu magazine - "Max*d" which had an interesting article on Eyre Peninsula (where we lived prior to shifting to Qld). The magazine shows me how to hoon around on beaches, drive through salt water without a worry & fly over sand dunes (yes we did go flying off a razor back sand dune when we had our MY80 Subaru but never again, at least in a heavier car).
So what do I read on page 11 of this mag - an advert for Airbagman - "Level up when towing or carrying a load"!!
I would hope that vehicle manufacturers - particularly those that make utes would know the possible pitfalls of fitting airbags. It seems the advertising dollar comes before common sense.
As I've said elsewhere, I have airbags on the rear of my current Patrol but I do NOT obey the instructions on "levelling out my vehicle", choosing to limit the air pressure to 25psi with 5-8psi without the van on the back. They are rated to 65psi!
Thanks for your input Radar. With Pat having a crook back, I may have to revert to some assistance in the future.
Whilst reading through the general forum about rear drawer systems, a link to a YouTube video was given. I watched that and the next video was about a canning stock route trip. During this trip a D-Max rear axle housing sheared off outboard of the leaf spring pack. The host of the video was perplexed about how this occurred. Then I spied the airbag sitting between the springs and chassis. Messing with the geometry of suspension systems is asking for trouble
airbag suspension does not have any form of springs, coil or leaf it is purely airbags and works well.
when you start jamming bags in where they don't belong you get dramas
they can be put inside coils with some success as you dontchange load points
cheers
blaze
Why are they fitted ?? To carry MORE WEIGHT !! Its not exactly the air bags doing the damage . If the axle broke ? Not the chassis rail its the drivers fault for being an idiot . Airbags with PROPER application work well . Plenty of big trucks and semis use them on new vehicles.. if you got a strong coil spring and fitted it the same !! The result WILL be the same !! The old days we used Patrols or Landcruisers . Now we are using 4cyl turbo diesels with much lighter chassis and wandering why theres issues . Ive seen the way some drive towing vans on bumpy rough roads . Its a wander there isnt more accidents . Its never the drivers fault !! Btw Ive had nearly all these vehicles as work trucks as duel cabs . With heavy drums of electrical wire on back. Air bags to assist in weight over axle . We drove them silly at times in national parks . Yes wasnt our vehicle and can be repaired !! We never had axle or chassis issues .. But I guess although we have them some ? We also had some mechanical sympathy . In bush you need a little momentum to get over things !! This is in bushfire or power black out emergencies!! vehicles replaced around 150,000Ks
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 13th of September 2019 12:56:26 PM
As you say Greg,airbags are fine on coil sprung vehicles.However,they are a no-no with leaf springs because of the point loading that is applied to the chassis between the spring hangers,in an area that is not designed for that task.There are,I believe,some people who do run airbags on leaf sprung vehicles,but they run minimal pressure in those airbags.Cheers
We enjoy the added benefit of using air bags on Nissan Narvara now for 6 years with no problem towing our 2.8 tonne caravan with an all up combination gross of 5.6 tonne with about 70 000ks of towing out of 120 000ks touring our great land.
About 8psi empty
About 15 to 18psi loaded.
Yes I am in favour of using air bags but also have spent $2000 on up grading our suspension to do the job of towing.
< done properly ? Its useless!! But dont blame the system !! To actually break an axle ., Theres a few things wrong .
Do some searching... not unkown issue with this vehicle ... always on a heavily loaded outback trip.... one can only wonder at how overloaded the rear axle was.... 20% or more I'd guess.... and rough tracks etc... probally some bits taken a bit to fast.... oh yeah... it was the airbags....
-- Edited by Noelpolar on Saturday 14th of September 2019 03:01:48 PM
-- Edited by Noelpolar on Saturday 14th of September 2019 03:02:27 PM
We're in the process of getting a mid spec D-max & I was handed the latest edition of the official Isuzu magazine - "Max*d" which had an interesting article on Eyre Peninsula (where we lived prior to shifting to Qld). The magazine shows me how to hoon around on beaches, drive through salt water without a worry & fly over sand dunes (yes we did go flying off a razor back sand dune when we had our MY80 Subaru but never again, at least in a heavier car).
So what do I read on page 11 of this mag - an advert for Airbagman - "Level up when towing or carrying a load"!!
I would hope that vehicle manufacturers - particularly those that make utes would know the possible pitfalls of fitting airbags. It seems the advertising dollar comes before common sense.
As I've said elsewhere, I have airbags on the rear of my current Patrol but I do NOT obey the instructions on "levelling out my vehicle", choosing to limit the air pressure to 25psi with 5-8psi without the van on the back. They are rated to 65psi!
Thanks for your input Radar. With Pat having a crook back, I may have to revert to some assistance in the future.