Im Looking at upsizing my van in around 18 months time. So while looking at a particular brand the other night I spoke to a local dealer about atms of this brand. I said I need a van with an atm of 2500kg so I can tow behind my Prado. He said that atm doesnt need to be 2500kg it can be higher than that, its the tare that I need to worry about so as long as its around 2000kg because this weight is what the officialS look at and not the atm. I may be incorrect but Ive always thought it the atm you have worry about. Some thoughts please because Im now confused.
cheers
Ashley
dabbler said
03:18 PM Oct 9, 2019
As long as your tow vehicle can legally drag around your actual trailed weight with actual tow ball mass, you will be legal. There are other issues such as performance but they aren't legal matters. ATM (a proscribed value) comes into play when the actual weight exceeds ATM. The danger comes with payload and payload creep. This affects both towed and trailed vehicles and if the sort of traveller that collects things as they get around, it will be an issue.
dabbler said
03:23 PM Oct 9, 2019
Hmm, can't seem to delete. I might be wrong with ATM requirements on tow vehicles.
Peter_n_Margaret said
03:38 PM Oct 9, 2019
The dealer is correct (most unusually so in this regard). The towing legal limit is the ACTUAL weight at the time, not the ATM. But the "officials" don't care about the tare either, only the ACTUAL weight if they put you over the scales, although tare is used by some States to calculate the registration costs. Cheers, Peter
EDIT: Actual weight must not exceed ATM.
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 9th of October 2019 03:39:20 PM
first timer said
04:02 PM Oct 9, 2019
Thanks dabbler and peter
i think Ive got it right now, so atm only matters if exceedEd but atm can be more than tug is allowed as long I dont exceed tugs limits . Thanks guys I was getting confused but Im right now.
cheers
Ashley
Rob Driver said
06:30 PM Oct 9, 2019
You will need to comply with your vehicles GVM and GCM and not exceed the allowable towing capacity of the vehicle. This will be the ATM.
Vehicle specifications are complicated and vary from make to make and it is important that you know those specifications.
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Wednesday 9th of October 2019 06:31:44 PM
Greg 1 said
12:05 AM Oct 10, 2019
What the dealer said is very misleading quite frankly.
The ATM is very important as that is the maximum the van can weigh fully laden including water and gas in the bottles which are not included in the Tare. If you buy a van on the tare only you are asking for trouble.
If you stay with a van that's ATM is within your tow vehicles capacity, you are at least halfway to remaining legal. However the vehicles Gross Combination Mass can be the limitation meaning that the vehicle cannot tow in all practicality it's claimed tow capacity.
Take a Ford Ranger. Claimed tow limit of 3500kgs but its GCM is 6000kgs. Take away a 3500kg van and you are left with only 2500kgs that the vehicle and its load can weigh. The Rangers kerb weight is 2271kgs so you are left with only 229kgs for load which includes any accessories, passengers, full tank of fuel and anything you have loaded in the vehicle. So you see the issue? In practical terms the Ranger cannot tow 3500kgs. It's real limit is about 3100kgs.
So having considered that the ATM of the van is very important as you are very likely with most vans to be close to this weight when loaded so it should really be the figure you use to assess whether the van will suit your tow vehicle. The tare is not the figure they look at on the side of the rd.
They weigh the actual weights of the van and vehicle to ensure you have not exceeded the vans ATM or GTM and the tow vehicles GCM, GVM and tow ball download. They are not interested in the empty weight of the van.
montie said
07:44 AM Oct 12, 2019
So long as the actual measured weight of the van does not exceed the towing capacity of your tug you are legal. As a dealer however, I would not recommend that you purchase a van with a plated ATM that exceeds your tug's towing capacity. There are a few reasons for this the main ones being that you will forego valuable payload capacity in the van plus it will be a red light for further inspection if you are pulled over.
Most dealers will ask you to sign a document stating that you understand in that situation, that you cannot load your van to it's maximum capacity if the plated ATM exceeds your towing capacity. Dealers have a legal duty of care to ensure your tow vehicle can legally tow the van you are purchasing.
As posted by others there are of course other considerations such as tug GVM,GCM and Ball Rating. Also, whilst not a legal requirement, van/tug weight ratio is also a safety consideration. However the above answers your direct question.
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 12th of October 2019 07:57:46 AM
Gus1949 said
09:56 AM Oct 12, 2019
"First timer", Greg 1 is closest to the pin. Some others are a just plain confusing.
-- Edited by Gus1949 on Saturday 12th of October 2019 09:56:36 AM
Hi everyone
Im Looking at upsizing my van in around 18 months time. So while looking at a particular brand the other night I spoke to a local dealer about atms of this brand. I said I need a van with an atm of 2500kg so I can tow behind my Prado. He said that atm doesnt need to be 2500kg it can be higher than that, its the tare that I need to worry about so as long as its around 2000kg because this weight is what the officialS look at and not the atm. I may be incorrect but Ive always thought it the atm you have worry about. Some thoughts please because Im now confused.
cheers
Ashley
The dealer is correct (most unusually so in this regard).
The towing legal limit is the ACTUAL weight at the time, not the ATM. But the "officials" don't care about the tare either, only the ACTUAL weight if they put you over the scales, although tare is used by some States to calculate the registration costs.
Cheers,
Peter
EDIT: Actual weight must not exceed ATM.
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 9th of October 2019 03:39:20 PM
Thanks dabbler and peter
i think Ive got it right now, so atm only matters if exceedEd but atm can be more than tug is allowed as long I dont exceed tugs limits . Thanks guys I was getting confused but Im right now.
cheers
Ashley
You will need to comply with your vehicles GVM and GCM and not exceed the allowable towing capacity of the vehicle. This will be the ATM.
Vehicle specifications are complicated and vary from make to make and it is important that you know those specifications.
This link may help
caravantowingguide.com.au/definitions/
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Wednesday 9th of October 2019 06:31:44 PM
So long as the actual measured weight of the van does not exceed the towing capacity of your tug you are legal.
As a dealer however, I would not recommend that you purchase a van with a plated ATM that exceeds your tug's towing capacity.
There are a few reasons for this the main ones being that you will forego valuable payload capacity in the van plus it will be a red light for further inspection if you are pulled over.
Most dealers will ask you to sign a document stating that you understand in that situation, that you cannot load your van to it's maximum capacity if the plated ATM exceeds your towing capacity. Dealers have a legal duty of care to ensure your tow vehicle can legally tow the van you are purchasing.
As posted by others there are of course other considerations such as tug GVM,GCM and Ball Rating. Also, whilst not a legal requirement, van/tug weight ratio is also a safety consideration. However the above answers your direct question.
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 12th of October 2019 07:57:46 AM
"First timer", Greg 1 is closest to the pin. Some others are a just plain confusing.
-- Edited by Gus1949 on Saturday 12th of October 2019 09:56:36 AM