I'm hoping someone can help me get to the bottom of a sticky situation. Earlier this year I purchased a 2011 Coromal Lifestyle 667 off road model van. I recently put it over a weigh bridge so I could find out exactly what Weight Distribution Hitch I needed, then the "fun" started. It was discovered that the figures on the Compliance Plate and on the Draw Bar for Tare and GVM, are not the same as those on the Registration Papers. Even down to the Chassis Number.
When I purchased the van (through a Dealer) it was out of Rego and he put 3 months on it, and I have subsequently renewed the Rego. The figures on my Rego Papers are, Tare 2300 with a GVM of 3085. The figures on the Compliance Plate are Tare 2080 with a GVM of 2570. Also, the last digit on the Chassis Number is not the same, one ends with a 5 and the other ends with an 8. Nobody (Roads & Maritime etc., Fleetwood WA) can tell me how this came about and only suggest I get another Blue Slip and they'll make an adjustment to their records, relying on the Compliance Plate. BUT, those figures show that I have a van that I'd have to strip 100 ks off, and then wouldn't be able to put anything in (clothes, food, water etc., etc.). So how and when did the Rego Certificate come to differ so radically from the Compliance Plate. The previous owner had put solar panels on the roof and a storage box on the front, so that has used up the allowable weight limit, according to the Compliance Plate.
The dealer who sold the van told us that the GVM was 3000 and all this has only just come to light. I know you can upgrade the ATM and payload capacity, but at considerable cost. I've already had to outlay thousands of dollars to rectify multiple faults on this van (currently dealing with the NSW Civil & Administrative Tribunal), this isn't the van that I thought I'd bought, it's been a nightmare from the word go.
So, I was wondering if perhaps anyone had this same model van, and what the true figures are, and if anyone could see any light at the end of the tunnel for me. As things stand now, I have a van I can't use.
Annie
Peter_n_Margaret said
01:58 PM Dec 5, 2019
Tare figures will never be correct, because people add stuff after manufacture. The GVM problem is the responsibility of the dealer to resolve, to your satisfaction and at his cost. If he can't, ask for your money back.
Seek the advise of Colin from the Caravan Council. He posts here sometimes. The lesson is NEVER trust anyone who sells you a van. Check the important stuff yourself and have it weighed (certified) before you hand over your cash.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Thursday 5th of December 2019 02:00:05 PM
Happy Daze said
02:16 PM Dec 5, 2019
Thanks for your reply Peter. your advice is exacly what I plan to do. I mentioned that I had taken my problems with the van to Fair Trading and they approached the dealer, who declined to take any responsibility for the condition of the van. Fair Trading put me in touch with the NSW Civil & Admisitrative Tribunal and I'm waiting for a hearing date. I'm about to contact NCAP again to explain this additional problem that has arisen. If I ever do buy another van, you can bet your bottom dollar that I won't be taking anyone's word for anything!
Cheers,
Annie
MapleHunter25 said
02:24 PM Dec 5, 2019
I can't pick the problem. The figures on the compliance plate are what matters legally for your ratings, the rego papers just need to be fixed. I assume by GVM you mean GTM? You should have a good payload of about 500-770kg depending on TBW. Never seen a consumer van with a 1000kg payload, and can't imagine what you would pack!
-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 02:39:58 PM
-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 02:41:32 PM
-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 02:44:28 PM
Happy Daze said
02:52 PM Dec 5, 2019
The problem is that using the Compliance Plate numbers and subtracting the tare weight from the ATM, it leaves 490 capacity, which when the van went over the weighbride empty (apart from the solar panels and tool box) showed it was already 100 kgs over. It was supposed to be 2570 and it was 2670. The van we were told we bought had an ATM of 3000, so as it stands, we can't carry anything in it, according to the figures on the Compliance Plate. Then there is the question, why do the Rego. Papers differ so drastically. Somewhere along the line it was rated as having a GVM (ATM) of 3085.
Just fixing the Rego Papers doesn't fix the problem, that just means that I can't put anything into it and it's not what we were told we'd bought. What I would like to legally pack is food, clothes, and water, just the usual necessities for a trip away.
Cheers,
Annie
MapleHunter25 said
03:15 PM Dec 5, 2019
Wow that's quite a gap from the certified Tare. Did you weigh it on the jockey wheel or still on the tug? What is the Compliance ATM?
-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 05:28:13 PM
Dougwe said
04:26 PM Dec 5, 2019
Hi Annie, long time no hear/see. I hope you are well.
I had problems with the weight of my aluminium tent as well when I first got it and in the end decided to take everything I didn't need out and it's surprising what you think you need and don't. I had to shed 100kg and ended up getting rid of 160kg and don't miss anything. The only problem is I can't carry any water in the tanks and I have 2x95lt tanks, bugga.
I am solo and get around it though by carrying 4x10lt containers of fresh water in the collie. I use that by a camp shower using a bucket in the shower cubical. Works for me and I know a couple of 'couples' that tried it and it works for then as well. I also have good old fashioned basin washes and that also works for me.
I am not sure if what I have said is any help but I thought I'd chuck it in the mix.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
yobarr said
04:35 PM Dec 5, 2019
MapleHunter25 wrote:
Wow that's quite a gap from the certified Tare. Did you weigh it on the jockey wheel or still on the tug? What is the Compliance ATM?-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 04:19:42 PM
Compare the axle group capacity on the compliance plate with the current GTM rating (weight on van wheels).Might be easy to simply upgrade the ATM,dependent on other things,including wheel size and brake drum size.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 5th of December 2019 04:36:25 PM
Happy Daze said
05:43 PM Dec 5, 2019
Hi again folks, yes it was weighed uncoupled MH25, and thanks Doug, hope all is well with you too. My main concern is that I was sold a van with a 3000 ATM and now find it's C.Plate is 2570. The company that I bought it from should have been aware of this, as if we'd known it was only 2570, I never would have bought it. Thanks for your input Yobarr, all possibilities are being explored.
Cheers, Annie
Bicyclecamper said
06:19 PM Dec 5, 2019
I don't know if this helps, but when I bought my van and blame me for not checking the rego papers at the time, the van had an tare of 1107kg, and a gvm of 1200kg, so by that I only had a n allowance of 93 kg, so that wouldn't work, so I quickly got a reassessment done by an engineer to raise the GVM, the van was weighed with out all the add ons, and stuff in van and came to 1335kg, and a new gvm of 1670kg, These new figures were put on the rego papers, but a new compliance plate was not supplied or required by RMS NSW, so when I next sell it, their will be a difference between rego papers and the compliance plate, I will inform the new owner and give him the Engineers papers, but I bet when he sells it, he would have lost those papers and probably not inform the new owner. So new owner maybe in the same place you are sometime down the track. Just to explain maybe this could have been the case, although it doesn't really explain the wrong vin or chassi number or your weight discrepancy.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 5th of December 2019 06:20:50 PM
Happy Daze said
07:50 PM Dec 5, 2019
Thanks Bicyclecamper, that could well be the case. Unfortunately I haven't had any explanation from the NSW Service Centre (Roads and Maritime), their only response is for me to get another Blue Slip to match the Compliance Plate, so I'll just have to keep pegging away at it. Having contacted an Engineer I was told it could be up to $800 for him to just inspect it and goodness knows where from that. The dealer who I bought it from has so far declined to accept any responsibility for anything, even that when sold, it didn't comply with Australian Safety Standards regarding the electrical system, both 12 and 240 volt and multiple other faults. As I've already mentioned, NCAP is now involved.
Cheers, Annie
MapleHunter25 said
08:05 PM Dec 5, 2019
Happy Daze wrote:
Hi again folks, yes it was weighed uncoupled MH25, and thanks Doug, hope all is well with you too. My main concern is that I was sold a van with a 3000 ATM and now find it's C.Plate is 2570. The company that I bought it from should have been aware of this, as if we'd known it was only 2570, I never would have bought it. Thanks for your input Yobarr, all possibilities are being explored.
Cheers, Annie
There is something fishy here, that tare is ridiculous even taking into account solar panels and (presumably empty) toolbox. The compliance ATM of 2570 is not inconsistent with other vans of this model.
More than happy to help you if you wish Annie, but I need accurate and objective information. What the dealer allegedly told you is just hearsay and irrelevant, while the rego papers will likeley help your case.
Make no mistake, the significant difference between your actual Tare (albeit lightly loaded with accessories) and the manufacturers spec needs to be explained. Have you got a spectacular number of betteries onboard for example? Otherwise I am starting to wonder if the compliance plate actually relates to the van you have.
Happy Daze said
09:00 PM Dec 5, 2019
Hi MP25, something does sound fishy and I've also had the thought that I might not have the van I think I purchased. When you buy a van and it turns out not to be the van you thought you were buying, it shouldn't have to be up to me to have to go through the process of removing everything from it for weighing and jump through all these hoops, it's a very sressful exercise. For the time being I'm going to leave it to the NCAP to hopefully sort this out. As you say, the Rego papers could be very helpful. I'll keep you updated on how things eventuate.
Cheers,
Annie
P.S. No, I don't have a spectacular number of batteries.
Wanda said
08:59 AM Dec 6, 2019
Hi My Nephew here in Adelaide purchased a second hand van from NSW recently, he went to change registration over into his name after he had picked it up, as you do. Thats when ****e hit the fan, not sure of exact discrepancy, I think a chassis/vin numbers discrepancy( I beleieve 1 number was wrong), van has been impounded since and that was about 6-8 weeks ago. Probably a typo error but it has caused great stress for a young family of 5. good luck with yours
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Friday 6th of December 2019 09:01:51 AM
Happy Daze said
09:51 AM Dec 6, 2019
Hi Ian, sorry to hear about your nephews troubles and hope it ends well for him. At least mine hasn't been impounded, but it might as well have been, seeing as how I can't legally use it due to the ATM problem and not being sure of what weight I have to comply with. Well, I could use it, but I wouldn't be able to carry anything in it, which is not the way to enjoy a holiday. At least in my case the Tribunal hears cases within an acceptable time frame, so that's where my hopes are now.
Cheers, Annie
Bicyclecamper said
12:19 PM Dec 6, 2019
Happy Daze. I don't know what state you are in but, it cost me $1200 including the weigh bridge, to have my tare and GVM upgraded, 2 years ago, I have heard of it costing upwards of $3000 in some states including here in NSW, it does just depend on how much the engineer wants to gouge you for. IF your van does turn out to be legit, you could go down the route I went, that is getting a new tare and GVM upgrade, in most cases you don't have to change the suspension for a new GVM upgrade, so long as your suspension is in good condition and is heavy duty enough. In my case I have offroad Simplicity Independent suspension, so it passed the requirement for an upgrade, yours also being offroad suspension should also work in your favour.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 6th of December 2019 12:20:18 PM
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 6th of December 2019 12:22:37 PM
Gus1949 said
11:29 AM Dec 10, 2019
I see in your original quote that the van was unregistered and the dealer registered it for three months. Did they simply pay on the existing registration number or did they have to submit a new registration application form and get a new rego plate? If the second option then they clearly have made a mistake and would be professionally liable for any loss you incur at the end of the day. If they simply renewed on the existing registration plates without submitting a new registration application form they still would have been professionally negligent and liable to compensate you for any loss e.g. upgrading the suspension.
I am not a lawyer but have had extensive experience in dealing with Professional Indemnity insurance and your case sounds like a clear case of professional negligence. If you have to go to a NCAP hearing make sure you take every bit of paperwork you have to support your case, they hate people who turn up unprepared.
Happy Daze said
05:21 PM Dec 10, 2019
Hi Rowan, thanks for your interest. I'm not sure just how they obtained the registration on the van, but as you say, it is negligence on their part. I have a hearing listed with NCAP in mid January and you can rest assured I have extensive paperwork to back up my claims. I almost need a wheelbarrow to load it all into. I've got photos, invoices, statements, copies of correspondence and photos etc., so I will not be found wanting on the day. I will post the result here when it's been dealt with.
I'm hoping someone can help me get to the bottom of a sticky situation. Earlier this year I purchased a 2011 Coromal Lifestyle 667 off road model van. I recently put it over a weigh bridge so I could find out exactly what Weight Distribution Hitch I needed, then the "fun" started. It was discovered that the figures on the Compliance Plate and on the Draw Bar for Tare and GVM, are not the same as those on the Registration Papers. Even down to the Chassis Number.
When I purchased the van (through a Dealer) it was out of Rego and he put 3 months on it, and I have subsequently renewed the Rego. The figures on my Rego Papers are, Tare 2300 with a GVM of 3085. The figures on the Compliance Plate are Tare 2080 with a GVM of 2570. Also, the last digit on the Chassis Number is not the same, one ends with a 5 and the other ends with an 8. Nobody (Roads & Maritime etc., Fleetwood WA) can tell me how this came about and only suggest I get another Blue Slip and they'll make an adjustment to their records, relying on the Compliance Plate. BUT, those figures show that I have a van that I'd have to strip 100 ks off, and then wouldn't be able to put anything in (clothes, food, water etc., etc.). So how and when did the Rego Certificate come to differ so radically from the Compliance Plate. The previous owner had put solar panels on the roof and a storage box on the front, so that has used up the allowable weight limit, according to the Compliance Plate.
The dealer who sold the van told us that the GVM was 3000 and all this has only just come to light. I know you can upgrade the ATM and payload capacity, but at considerable cost. I've already had to outlay thousands of dollars to rectify multiple faults on this van (currently dealing with the NSW Civil & Administrative Tribunal), this isn't the van that I thought I'd bought, it's been a nightmare from the word go.
So, I was wondering if perhaps anyone had this same model van, and what the true figures are, and if anyone could see any light at the end of the tunnel for me. As things stand now, I have a van I can't use.
Annie
Tare figures will never be correct, because people add stuff after manufacture.
The GVM problem is the responsibility of the dealer to resolve, to your satisfaction and at his cost. If he can't, ask for your money back.
Seek the advise of Colin from the Caravan Council. He posts here sometimes.
The lesson is NEVER trust anyone who sells you a van. Check the important stuff yourself and have it weighed (certified) before you hand over your cash.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Thursday 5th of December 2019 02:00:05 PM
Thanks for your reply Peter. your advice is exacly what I plan to do. I mentioned that I had taken my problems with the van to Fair Trading and they approached the dealer, who declined to take any responsibility for the condition of the van. Fair Trading put me in touch with the NSW Civil & Admisitrative Tribunal and I'm waiting for a hearing date. I'm about to contact NCAP again to explain this additional problem that has arisen. If I ever do buy another van, you can bet your bottom dollar that I won't be taking anyone's word for anything!
Cheers,
Annie
I can't pick the problem. The figures on the compliance plate are what matters legally for your ratings, the rego papers just need to be fixed. I assume by GVM you mean GTM? You should have a good payload of about 500-770kg depending on TBW. Never seen a consumer van with a 1000kg payload, and can't imagine what you would pack!
-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 02:39:58 PM
-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 02:41:32 PM
-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 02:44:28 PM
The problem is that using the Compliance Plate numbers and subtracting the tare weight from the ATM, it leaves 490 capacity, which when the van went over the weighbride empty (apart from the solar panels and tool box) showed it was already 100 kgs over. It was supposed to be 2570 and it was 2670. The van we were told we bought had an ATM of 3000, so as it stands, we can't carry anything in it, according to the figures on the Compliance Plate. Then there is the question, why do the Rego. Papers differ so drastically. Somewhere along the line it was rated as having a GVM (ATM) of 3085.
Just fixing the Rego Papers doesn't fix the problem, that just means that I can't put anything into it and it's not what we were told we'd bought. What I would like to legally pack is food, clothes, and water, just the usual necessities for a trip away.
Cheers,
Annie
Wow that's quite a gap from the certified Tare. Did you weigh it on the jockey wheel or still on the tug? What is the Compliance ATM?
-- Edited by MapleHunter25 on Thursday 5th of December 2019 05:28:13 PM
I had problems with the weight of my aluminium tent as well when I first got it and in the end decided to take everything I didn't need out and it's surprising what you think you need and don't. I had to shed 100kg and ended up getting rid of 160kg and don't miss anything. The only problem is I can't carry any water in the tanks and I have 2x95lt tanks, bugga.
I am solo and get around it though by carrying 4x10lt containers of fresh water in the collie. I use that by a camp shower using a bucket in the shower cubical. Works for me and I know a couple of 'couples' that tried it and it works for then as well. I also have good old fashioned basin washes and that also works for me.
I am not sure if what I have said is any help but I thought I'd chuck it in the mix.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Compare the axle group capacity on the compliance plate with the current GTM rating (weight on van wheels).Might be easy to simply upgrade the ATM,dependent on other things,including wheel size and brake drum size.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 5th of December 2019 04:36:25 PM
Hi again folks, yes it was weighed uncoupled MH25, and thanks Doug, hope all is well with you too. My main concern is that I was sold a van with a 3000 ATM and now find it's C.Plate is 2570. The company that I bought it from should have been aware of this, as if we'd known it was only 2570, I never would have bought it. Thanks for your input Yobarr, all possibilities are being explored.
Cheers, Annie
I don't know if this helps, but when I bought my van and blame me for not checking the rego papers at the time, the van had an tare of 1107kg, and a gvm of 1200kg, so by that I only had a n allowance of 93 kg, so that wouldn't work, so I quickly got a reassessment done by an engineer to raise the GVM, the van was weighed with out all the add ons, and stuff in van and came to 1335kg, and a new gvm of 1670kg, These new figures were put on the rego papers, but a new compliance plate was not supplied or required by RMS NSW, so when I next sell it, their will be a difference between rego papers and the compliance plate, I will inform the new owner and give him the Engineers papers, but I bet when he sells it, he would have lost those papers and probably not inform the new owner. So new owner maybe in the same place you are sometime down the track. Just to explain maybe this could have been the case, although it doesn't really explain the wrong vin or chassi number or your weight discrepancy.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 5th of December 2019 06:20:50 PM
Thanks Bicyclecamper, that could well be the case. Unfortunately I haven't had any explanation from the NSW Service Centre (Roads and Maritime), their only response is for me to get another Blue Slip to match the Compliance Plate, so I'll just have to keep pegging away at it. Having contacted an Engineer I was told it could be up to $800 for him to just inspect it and goodness knows where from that. The dealer who I bought it from has so far declined to accept any responsibility for anything, even that when sold, it didn't comply with Australian Safety Standards regarding the electrical system, both 12 and 240 volt and multiple other faults. As I've already mentioned, NCAP is now involved.
Cheers, Annie
There is something fishy here, that tare is ridiculous even taking into account solar panels and (presumably empty) toolbox. The compliance ATM of 2570 is not inconsistent with other vans of this model.
More than happy to help you if you wish Annie, but I need accurate and objective information. What the dealer allegedly told you is just hearsay and irrelevant, while the rego papers will likeley help your case.
Make no mistake, the significant difference between your actual Tare (albeit lightly loaded with accessories) and the manufacturers spec needs to be explained. Have you got a spectacular number of betteries onboard for example? Otherwise I am starting to wonder if the compliance plate actually relates to the van you have.
Hi MP25, something does sound fishy and I've also had the thought that I might not have the van I think I purchased. When you buy a van and it turns out not to be the van you thought you were buying, it shouldn't have to be up to me to have to go through the process of removing everything from it for weighing and jump through all these hoops, it's a very sressful exercise. For the time being I'm going to leave it to the NCAP to hopefully sort this out. As you say, the Rego papers could be very helpful. I'll keep you updated on how things eventuate.
Cheers,
Annie
P.S. No, I don't have a spectacular number of batteries.
Hi
My Nephew here in Adelaide purchased a second hand van from NSW recently, he went to change registration over into his name after he had picked it up, as you do. Thats when ****e hit the fan, not sure of exact discrepancy, I think a chassis/vin numbers discrepancy( I beleieve 1 number was wrong), van has been impounded since and that was about 6-8 weeks ago.
Probably a typo error but it has caused great stress for a young family of 5.
good luck with yours
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Friday 6th of December 2019 09:01:51 AM
Hi Ian, sorry to hear about your nephews troubles and hope it ends well for him. At least mine hasn't been impounded, but it might as well have been, seeing as how I can't legally use it due to the ATM problem and not being sure of what weight I have to comply with. Well, I could use it, but I wouldn't be able to carry anything in it, which is not the way to enjoy a holiday. At least in my case the Tribunal hears cases within an acceptable time frame, so that's where my hopes are now.
Cheers, Annie
Happy Daze. I don't know what state you are in but, it cost me $1200 including the weigh bridge, to have my tare and GVM upgraded, 2 years ago, I have heard of it costing upwards of $3000 in some states including here in NSW, it does just depend on how much the engineer wants to gouge you for. IF your van does turn out to be legit, you could go down the route I went, that is getting a new tare and GVM upgrade, in most cases you don't have to change the suspension for a new GVM upgrade, so long as your suspension is in good condition and is heavy duty enough. In my case I have offroad Simplicity Independent suspension, so it passed the requirement for an upgrade, yours also being offroad suspension should also work in your favour.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 6th of December 2019 12:20:18 PM
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Friday 6th of December 2019 12:22:37 PM
I see in your original quote that the van was unregistered and the dealer registered it for three months. Did they simply pay on the existing registration number or did they have to submit a new registration application form and get a new rego plate? If the second option then they clearly have made a mistake and would be professionally liable for any loss you incur at the end of the day. If they simply renewed on the existing registration plates without submitting a new registration application form they still would have been professionally negligent and liable to compensate you for any loss e.g. upgrading the suspension.
I am not a lawyer but have had extensive experience in dealing with Professional Indemnity insurance and your case sounds like a clear case of professional negligence. If you have to go to a NCAP hearing make sure you take every bit of paperwork you have to support your case, they hate people who turn up unprepared.
Hi Rowan, thanks for your interest. I'm not sure just how they obtained the registration on the van, but as you say, it is negligence on their part. I have a hearing listed with NCAP in mid January and you can rest assured I have extensive paperwork to back up my claims. I almost need a wheelbarrow to load it all into. I've got photos, invoices, statements, copies of correspondence and photos etc., so I will not be found wanting on the day. I will post the result here when it's been dealt with.
Cheers, Annie