Will it be the next big thing? Tata Motors of India thinks so. What will the Oil Companies do to stop it? It is an auto engine that runs on air. That's right; air not gas or diesel or electric but just the air around us.Take a look.
Tata Motors of India has scheduled the Air Car to hit Indian streets The Air Car, developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy N. For Luxembourg-based MDI, uses compressed air to push its engine's pistons and make the car go.The Air Car, called the "Mini CAT" could cost around 365,757 rupees in India or $8,177 US.The Mini CAT which is a simple, light urban car, with a tubular chassis, a body of fiberglass that is glued not welded and powered by compressed air. A Microprocessor is used to control all electrical functions of the car. One tiny radio transmitter sends instructions to the lights, turn signals and every other electrical device on the car. Which are not many.The temperature of the clean air expelled by the exhaust pipe is between 0-15 degrees below zero, which makes it suitable for use by the internal air conditioning system with no need for gases or loss of power.There are no keys, just an access card which can be read by the car from your pocket. According to the designers, it costs less than 50 rupees per 100 KM, that's about a tenth the cost of a car running on gas. It's mileage is about double that of the most advanced electric car, a factor which makes it a perfect choice for city motorists. The car has a top speed of 105 KM per hour or 60 mph and would have a range of around 300 km or 185 miles between refuels. Refilling the car will take place at adapted gas stations with special air compressors. A fill up will only take two to three minutes and costs approximately 100 rupees ($1.78 CAD!) and the car will be ready to go another 300 kilometers.This car can also be filled at home with it's on board compressor. It will take 3-4 hours to refill the tank, but it can be done while you sleep.
Because there is no combustion engine, changing the 1 liter of vegetable oil is only necessary every 50,000 KM or 30,000 miles. Due to its simplicity, there is very little maintenance to be done on this car.
-- Edited by Cupie on Saturday 7th of December 2019 08:04:46 PM
Possum3 said
07:55 AM Dec 8, 2019
I would imagine that the release of air (piston exhaust) would create extreme temperature variations so piston/valve/cylinder componentry would need to be ceramic or similar - with a solar powered air compressor this unit would be a GN's dream come true.
Dougwe said
08:23 AM Dec 8, 2019
Solar powered Compressor. You might need to carry a generator as back up.
Who said 'generator'
Whenarewethere said
10:08 AM Dec 8, 2019
Compressing air is very inefficient, I have 1.2kW capacity in the car which is quick for inflating tyres or blowing dust off the car. It generates masses of heat. Then you need to remove water from the air which is really only possible if the air is cooled before it is used.
Air has advantages, if an air motor stalls it doesn't heat up like an electric motor.
Grandad5 said
10:18 AM Dec 8, 2019
I met a fellow last weekend who dabbles in building his own alternative energy cars in his garage as a hobby. He's converted two petrol cars to electric and is now working on an air powered one.
My mind went in all kinds of directions trying to figure out how he would get compressed air to move a piston up and down until he told me he had converted 4 wheel motors from an old Bobcat.
I never realised Bobcats are powered by oil being pumped into these rotary designed motors. So, what this guy was doing was changing the oil for compressed air.
It all sounded quite interesting. And, it was keeping his mind occupied.
Jim
T1 Terry said
11:12 AM Dec 8, 2019
A screw compressor is far more efficient than the old piston compressors for smaller air volumes, but nothing beats a turbine for big volume air compression, it just needs multiple stages to get the high pressure.
A variable displacement compressor as used in modern auto air conditioning would make an interesting reverse engineered air motor, but the radial blade motors used in air tools driving through a planetary gearset that could have different components held and driven to create multiple drive ratios, the way an automatic transmission does, could produce some very interesting results.
An interesting alternative to the battery/electric vehicle, instead of electric recharging stations there would be huge air tanks holding the highly compressed air for a very fast tank fill. Liquefying the air the air could greatly increase the storage capacity and the energy echange required to gasify the liquid would make an excellent coolant as a work around for possums potential problem.
One thing to be considered, when air is dropped from a high pressure to a low pressure it actually draws in heat energy. Try pumping up a tyre to pop the bead, then holding the valve part way into the escaping air stream and watch what happens ..... you can often hear the ice forming and popping when the valve is removed and the only restriction is the valve seat itself. So, would the exhaust be hot or frozen?
Anyone into high performance supercharged engines that use the old Roots Blower with a hood on top? Is the hood hot or iced when the engine is shut down after a hard run?
T1 Terry
Jaahn said
02:57 PM Dec 8, 2019
Hi
Bigger diesels are always started by air. Not an air starter motor like trucks have but using the air direct into the cylinders. They have a 'distribution' unit, driven by the camshaft which times the air injections to the down stroke. Use about 350PSI air tanks as I remember them. The point is the engine accelerates rapidly over a couple of strokes then you pull the lever and the fuel is injected and it goes instantly. They usually use the compression in the cylinders to pump up the air tanks before they shut the engine down. Two start air tanks for safety.
My thinking is that air motors are an inefficient way to make power from my experience. But perhaps there may be better designs these days. Usually air is used because it is clean and has only one supply hose and no return hose. Also the motors do not burn out like an electric tool but just stall and keep going after you unload them. Who knows ??
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of December 2019 03:00:07 PM
MapleHunter25 said
08:31 PM Dec 8, 2019
I suppose the economics could pan out, if you skip some of the boring health, safety and reliability stuff. I can see how rolling out compressor stations would be much easier than electric fast chargers in countries with limited infrastructure. But really, with the current generation of high efficiency electric motors and adequate lithium storage it seems like a solution looking for a problem for most of us.
landy said
10:05 PM Dec 8, 2019
MapleHunter25 wrote:
I suppose the economics could pan out, if you skip some of the boring health, safety and reliability stuff. I can see how rolling out compressor stations would be much easier than electric fast chargers in countries with limited infrastructure. But really, with the current generation of high efficiency electric motors and adequate lithium storage it seems like a solution looking for a problem for most of us.
The compressor station is still going to take energy to drive the compressors. electricity , diesel etc so would there be any real saving.
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:57 PM Dec 8, 2019
Some time in the relatively near future, we will have lots of solar generation. So much that there will be an excess during the day when the sun is shining, way more than we can use. During this time we will see that excess electrical energy used to create other forms of energy.
Pumped storage (Snowy 2, and many others) will be one of the first. Hydrogen generation will follow. Compressing air could easily fit into that mix, along with desalination plants and other things that we have not even thought of yet.
"Renewable energy" is just that. Use it or it will be wasted. There will be more tomorrow.
Cheers,
Peter
T1 Terry said
04:33 PM Dec 9, 2019
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Some time in the relatively near future, we will have lots of solar generation. So much that there will be an excess during the day when the sun is shining, way more than we can use. During this time we will see that excess electrical energy used to create other forms of energy. Pumped storage (Snowy 2, and many others) will be one of the first. Hydrogen generation will follow. Compressing air could easily fit into that mix, along with desalination plants and other things that we have not even thought of yet. "Renewable energy" is just that. Use it or it will be wasted. There will be more tomorrow. Cheers, Peter
If only the govts can get their hands out of the pockets of the fossil fuel industry, we can have more big batteries throughout the grid and store the excess renewable energy for use when needed. The electric vehicle industry needs to get on with the 2 way flow of energy storage in the electric vehicle's battery as well to offer more grid stability rather than just being a short term load. Mum's taxi of the future will have enough power stored in the battery to power the house through the night or during a power outage, but it could also be there to absorb the peak load and avoid the outage completely. Can't do that with a tank full of compressed air ......
T1 Terry
Tony Bev said
07:27 PM Dec 12, 2019
Back in the day, before drill rigs, were hydraulic powered
Their radial piston motors, were all pneumatic (air) powered
The one drawback was the inability of the engine piston rings, to stop the condensation of the compressed air, entering the oil
As a drill fitter, I would religiously change the (now milky), motor oil on a weekly basis, every 60 to 70 hours
The exhaust port was always iced, and occasionally you could see small pieces of ice, blowing out of the exhaust
Just like at night time, you can occasionally see glowing pieces of carbon, leaving the muffler of a diesel truck
I certainly hope that they do perfect the air engine, perhaps being an in-line, and not a radial engine, may be the key to making it work
We can only wait and watch
Valkie said
06:28 PM Dec 16, 2019
Our politicians could run a jet liner on the hot air they expell.
Dick0 said
07:43 PM Dec 16, 2019
Dougwe wrote:
Solar powered Compressor. You might need to carry a generator as back up.
Who said 'generator'
And don't forget Doug, we only run our generators at 2:00am 'cos everyone is asleep!
I was going to put this in 'Just Joking' but I was really trying out a cut & paste from an eMail that I received.
I'll do a bit of research & perhaps re-post.
Oh yes, to keep on topic I suppose I should say something about a 4WD tow version. Again later maybe. LOL
edit Try this .. seems like the 'idea' ha
s been round since at least 2007
https://www.drivespark.com/four-wheelers/2017/tata-motors-air-powered-car-airpod-launch-2020-020628.html
What is this?
Will it be the next big thing?
Tata Motors of India thinks so.
What will the Oil Companies do to stop it?
It is an auto engine that runs on air. That's right; air not gas or diesel or electric but just the air around us. Take a look.
Tata Motors of India has scheduled the Air Car to hit Indian streets
The Air Car, developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy N. For Luxembourg-based MDI, uses compressed air to push its engine's pistons and make the car go. The Air Car, called the "Mini CAT" could cost around 365,757 rupees in India or $8,177 US. The Mini CAT which is a simple, light urban car, with a tubular chassis, a body of fiberglass that is glued not welded and powered by compressed air. A Microprocessor is used to control all electrical functions of the car. One tiny radio transmitter sends instructions to the lights, turn signals and every other electrical device on the car. Which are not many. The temperature of the clean air expelled by the exhaust pipe is between 0-15 degrees below zero, which makes it suitable for use by the internal air conditioning system with no need for gases or loss of power. There are no keys, just an access card which can be read by the car from your pocket. According to the designers, it costs less than 50 rupees per 100 KM, that's about a tenth the cost of a car running on gas. It's mileage is about double that of the most advanced electric car, a factor which makes it a perfect choice for city motorists. The car has a top speed of 105 KM per hour or 60 mph and would have a range of around 300 km or 185 miles between refuels. Refilling the car will take place at adapted gas stations with special air compressors. A fill up will only take two to three minutes and costs approximately 100 rupees ($1.78 CAD!) and the car will be ready to go another 300 kilometers. This car can also be filled at home with it's on board compressor. It will take 3-4 hours to refill the tank, but it can be done while you sleep.
Because there is no combustion engine, changing the 1 liter of vegetable oil is only necessary every 50,000 KM or 30,000 miles.
Due to its simplicity, there is very little maintenance to be done on this car.
-- Edited by Cupie on Saturday 7th of December 2019 08:04:46 PM
Solar powered Compressor. You might need to carry a generator as back up.
Who said 'generator'
Compressing air is very inefficient, I have 1.2kW capacity in the car which is quick for inflating tyres or blowing dust off the car. It generates masses of heat. Then you need to remove water from the air which is really only possible if the air is cooled before it is used.
Air has advantages, if an air motor stalls it doesn't heat up like an electric motor.
My mind went in all kinds of directions trying to figure out how he would get compressed air to move a piston up and down until he told me he had converted 4 wheel motors from an old Bobcat.
I never realised Bobcats are powered by oil being pumped into these rotary designed motors. So, what this guy was doing was changing the oil for compressed air.
It all sounded quite interesting. And, it was keeping his mind occupied.
Jim
A variable displacement compressor as used in modern auto air conditioning would make an interesting reverse engineered air motor, but the radial blade motors used in air tools driving through a planetary gearset that could have different components held and driven to create multiple drive ratios, the way an automatic transmission does, could produce some very interesting results.
An interesting alternative to the battery/electric vehicle, instead of electric recharging stations there would be huge air tanks holding the highly compressed air for a very fast tank fill. Liquefying the air the air could greatly increase the storage capacity and the energy echange required to gasify the liquid would make an excellent coolant as a work around for possums potential problem.
One thing to be considered, when air is dropped from a high pressure to a low pressure it actually draws in heat energy. Try pumping up a tyre to pop the bead, then holding the valve part way into the escaping air stream and watch what happens ..... you can often hear the ice forming and popping when the valve is removed and the only restriction is the valve seat itself. So, would the exhaust be hot or frozen?
Anyone into high performance supercharged engines that use the old Roots Blower with a hood on top? Is the hood hot or iced when the engine is shut down after a hard run?
T1 Terry
Hi
Bigger diesels are always started by air. Not an air starter motor like trucks have but using the air direct into the cylinders. They have a 'distribution' unit, driven by the camshaft which times the air injections to the down stroke. Use about 350PSI air tanks as I remember them. The point is the engine accelerates rapidly over a couple of strokes then you pull the lever and the fuel is injected and it goes instantly. They usually use the compression in the cylinders to pump up the air tanks before they shut the engine down. Two start air tanks for safety.
My thinking is that air motors are an inefficient way to make power from my experience. But perhaps there may be better designs these days. Usually air is used because it is clean and has only one supply hose and no return hose. Also the motors do not burn out like an electric tool but just stall and keep going after you unload them. Who knows ??
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 8th of December 2019 03:00:07 PM
The compressor station is still going to take energy to drive the compressors. electricity , diesel etc so would there be any real saving.
Pumped storage (Snowy 2, and many others) will be one of the first. Hydrogen generation will follow. Compressing air could easily fit into that mix, along with desalination plants and other things that we have not even thought of yet.
"Renewable energy" is just that. Use it or it will be wasted. There will be more tomorrow.
Cheers,
Peter
If only the govts can get their hands out of the pockets of the fossil fuel industry, we can have more big batteries throughout the grid and store the excess renewable energy for use when needed. The electric vehicle industry needs to get on with the 2 way flow of energy storage in the electric vehicle's battery as well to offer more grid stability rather than just being a short term load. Mum's taxi of the future will have enough power stored in the battery to power the house through the night or during a power outage, but it could also be there to absorb the peak load and avoid the outage completely. Can't do that with a tank full of compressed air ......
T1 Terry
Their radial piston motors, were all pneumatic (air) powered
The one drawback was the inability of the engine piston rings, to stop the condensation of the compressed air, entering the oil
As a drill fitter, I would religiously change the (now milky), motor oil on a weekly basis, every 60 to 70 hours
The exhaust port was always iced, and occasionally you could see small pieces of ice, blowing out of the exhaust
Just like at night time, you can occasionally see glowing pieces of carbon, leaving the muffler of a diesel truck
I certainly hope that they do perfect the air engine, perhaps being an in-line, and not a radial engine, may be the key to making it work
We can only wait and watch
And don't forget Doug, we only run our generators at 2:00am 'cos everyone is asleep!