Swampy made me think, I've had the oil flush, no filter change. Go to the transmission specialist and they say you have to remove the sump and change the filter, had that too. Now I have noticed in the USA, they are fitting an external filter as a kit, perhaps the oil flush and an external filter is a good idea. I wondered how the oil was changed in the oil coolers when some are mounted vertically, with the fittings at the top. I can see the flush will clear the oil gallery's etc.
How is the oil flush performed anyhow?
outlaw40 said
09:10 AM Mar 17, 2020
If its done properly they brake into oil lines and pump oil through until it runs clean thats the only way to get old oil out of the torque converter not just the after market cooler , thats why they call it flushing . And yes a filter change would need to be done .
iana said
09:51 AM Mar 17, 2020
So where are the external oil lines on the standard Ranger or BT50? Are you saying that an oil flush and the sump removal needs to be done to change the filter ?
-- Edited by iana on Tuesday 17th of March 2020 09:52:56 AM
outlaw40 said
01:36 PM Mar 17, 2020
To change the filter you need to remove the sump .An oil change and a transmission flush are to different things the latter being more expensive because more oil is used . the external lines are the ones that go to the plate cooler . I am only assuming they would use them however there may be another port they can tap into to do a flush .
blaze said
03:56 PM Mar 17, 2020
its not a filter, its at best a strainer. Remove sump to change.
cheers
blaze
iana said
05:14 PM Mar 17, 2020
Doing some reading (on the net), it appears there are 3 processes used. 1/ Oil flush, a machine using air, and is disliked by the manufacturers as it can dislodge particles (will void the warranty), and block valves. 2/ Fluid exchange, which I think we here call a flush, its just the as it says the exchange of clean fluid for dirty fluid, but mixing still occurs, and 3/ drop the sump and drain fluid and replace the filter. The latter one does not drain all the fluid trapped within the workings, so again mixing occurs. As blaze says, the filter is just a strainer, and probably could be cleaned and re-used.
The best description of the fluid exchange I found, is a cylinder with a piston inside, the piston pushed to the bottom of the cylinder. The pressure side of the trans oil is fed to the bottom of the cylinder (the cylinder standing on its end). The top portion above the piston is filled with clean oil. The return oil line is fitted to the top of the cylinder. When the vehicle is started, the transmission pressured oil fills the bottom of the cylinder, pushing the piston up. This then pushes the clean oil back into the gearbox.
Jaahn said
07:04 PM Mar 17, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
To change the filter you need to remove the sump .An oil change and a transmission flush are to different things the latter being more expensive because more oil is used . the external lines are the ones that go to the plate cooler . I am only assuming they would use them however there may be another port they can tap into to do a flush .
Hi
I think outlaw40 is back in the past. I do not believe any transmission place is equipped to do a flush or indeed would do this, to a modern current transmission. The manufacturers would not give their blessing for sure Ask around ??
There are no external lines to tap into so the only way would be to remove the cooler from the transmission and make an adaptor that fits to the casing oil ports, similar to fitting an external cooler. Hmm why do that and then take it off again for twice the work ? You need two ports one for the oil out and the other for the return oil.
As already said the 'filter' in an automatic transmission is very coarse and best described as a strainer. Mostly its purpose is to catch any particles that may be around due to malfunctions etc and hold them from circulating through the pump and valves and jamming them. It is not like an engine oil filter and does not need regular changing. People often clean them and refit. As I understand it the original filters in these wonderful transmissions are part of the plastic sump moulding and are designed to be thrown away and replaced in most models. But there are alternative metal and larger sumps available aftermarket as well as seperate filters and gaskets.
I believe that if you change the oil at some regular interval that will do about a 50% change and the additives are replenished sufficiently. If you want to do more repeat that at say 1000 Kms and you will have about a 75% change of oil. Dropping the sump was useful in looking at the sediment there to see if there were any unwanted sludges or 'gold' particles, that indicated problems or excessive wear. Possibly also to adjust the 'bands' but modern transmissions do not have them.
Jaahn
iana said
08:24 AM Mar 18, 2020
I dunno Jaahn, this is a copy from the worksheet of our BT50 serviced at Parkland Mazda. 50,000 service done in 2017.
COMPLETED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION SERVICE
ADDED AUTOMATIC FLUSH
FLUSHED COOLER, COOLER LINES, TORQUE CONVERTOR AND GEARBOX
ADDED FRICTION MODIFIER FOR SEALS AND GASKETS
CHECKED GEAR SELEECTOR LINKAGES, AUTO LEVEL AND ROADTESTED
Although I suspect it is only an oil exchange. I am intrigued to find out how they did it, maybe an adaptor fitted between the transmission housing and heat exchanger.
What you say about the changing of oil and getting a 50-75% change, seemed to be the common consensus on the net.
Please don't upset outlaw40, he's the only one commenting on my threads, don't know why everyone is so quiet, its a subject common to most!
PeterInSa said
10:26 AM Mar 18, 2020
iana, I am quiet because I do not have a good understanding of whats involved.
Good on outlaw40 for his input
Jaahn to me has extensive knowledge of most mechanical issues including Sprinters and I always read his write ups.
yobarr said
11:06 AM Mar 18, 2020
iana wrote:
I dunno Jaahn, this is a copy from the worksheet of our BT50 serviced at Parkland Mazda. 50,000 service done in 2017.
COMPLETED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION SERVICE ADDED AUTOMATIC FLUSH FLUSHED COOLER, COOLER LINES, TORQUE CONVERTOR AND GEARBOX ADDED FRICTION MODIFIER FOR SEALS AND GASKETS CHECKED GEAR SELEECTOR LINKAGES, AUTO LEVEL AND ROADTESTED
Although I suspect it is only an oil exchange. I am intrigued to find out how they did it, maybe an adaptor fitted between the transmission housing and heat exchanger. What you say about the changing of oil and getting a 50-75% change, seemed to be the common consensus on the net.
Please don't upset outlaw40, he's the only one commenting on my threads, don't know why everyone is so quiet, its a subject common to most!
Hi Ian....I always read your posts,and follow the responses you receive,but I comment only on things I actually know about.In this case,I know zilch,but,unlike some other members,I am always happy to learn from people who do have knowledge.My car has a manual transmission,so topic is not really relevant to me,but it always is good to learn from the experiences of others......one day I may buy an auto? Cheers.
iana said
11:56 AM Mar 18, 2020
Hi yobar and pete, I too knew s-f-a about it all as well, but by much surfing and questioning I am getting to know more. For instance back a few posts, a question was put up about being able to measure turbo exhaust temp. what says I, will that do?, but a bit of reading says that this is a means of measuring engine load, and apart from that, hi turbo temperatures would be un healthy for the said item. I knew on petrol engines, when adjusting the fuel mixture, exhaust temperature gave an indication that the setting was correct.
Yes again, I only comment on things I know something about, but if its of interest to you, a comment can do wonders for the postee.
yobarr said
04:42 PM Mar 18, 2020
iana wrote:
Hi yobar and pete, I too knew s-f-a about it all as well, but by much surfing and questioning I am getting to know more. For instance back a few posts, a question was put up about being able to measure turbo exhaust temp. what says I, will that do?, but a bit of reading says that this is a means of measuring engine load, and apart from that, hi turbo temperatures would be un healthy for the said item. I knew on petrol engines, when adjusting the fuel mixture, exhaust temperature gave an indication that the setting was correct. Yes again, I only comment on things I know something about, but if its of interest to you, a comment can do wonders for the postee.
Hi Ian...just get a pyrometer.Job done.If diesel engine,up to about 650 degrees is OK on a long,steep,climb.Cheers
kesa32 said
05:06 PM Mar 18, 2020
Hi iana , I'll have a crack ..with the 6r80 gearbox it is temp controlled with a valve that opens when its up to operating temp ..to flush these boxes you pretty well have to remove the valve so oil can circulate freely as a flush needs to do
To remove the valve the sump has to be removed and the valve body unit has to be removed to get to this thermo valve to remove it ...this is what ive been told so l doubt a full flush can be achieved any other way without doing the disassembly , reassembly , then disassembly to reinstall , then reassemble /finish
Jaahn said
07:27 PM Mar 18, 2020
kesa32 wrote:
Hi iana , I'll have a crack ..with the 6r80 gearbox it is temp controlled with a valve that opens when its up to operating temp ..to flush these boxes you pretty well have to remove the valve so oil can circulate freely as a flush needs to do To remove the valve the sump has to be removed and the valve body unit has to be removed to get to this thermo valve to remove it ...this is what ive been told so l doubt a full flush can be achieved any other way without doing the disassembly , reassembly , then disassembly to reinstall , then reassemble /finish
Hi kesa32
Yes exactly. Not as straight foward as you might be able to do in older transmission.
COMPLETED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION SERVICE ADDED AUTOMATIC FLUSH FLUSHED COOLER, COOLER LINES, TORQUE CONVERTOR AND GEARBOX ADDED FRICTION MODIFIER FOR SEALS AND GASKETS CHECKED GEAR SELEECTOR LINKAGES, AUTO LEVEL AND ROADTESTED
I am suspicious about what dealers do, so I believe a transmission flush by a dealer will be to put a can of 'stuff' (added automatic flush) in for 10 minutes before draining. If you were lucky they might have driven it around the block to circulate the 'stuff' through the cooler lines convertor and gearbox etc as listed Perhaps I am wrong and the dealer did remove all those parts and manually connected them to a machine or the apprentice put then in the parts washer possibly . How much labour was charged for the flushing ?? What does friction modifier do for the seals and gaskets. WTF are these things they added did they list the actual name of them.
You asked for a flush they gave you one !! I do not know what they did.
Here is an example of a product in a tube that claims to do that sort of thing: Liqui Moly Auto Transmission Restorer and Flush . Be amazed and watch the magic !!
-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 18th of March 2020 08:47:30 PM
iana said
07:53 PM Mar 18, 2020
I would think you are so right Jaahn, when they suggested another flush, discolored oil with burnt smell, I took it to a transmission service person, they dropped the sump, changed the filter (screen). Prices about the same. Incidentally the oil was not that bad, and didn't need the change.
swamp said
10:29 PM Mar 18, 2020
Hi
transoil flush is not only to get deposited debris out but also to change oil carrying debris [in suspension ] out of the inaccessible places such as cooler and torque convertor.
Can this be done of every transmission don't no .. Only very established places are worth approaching for trans service as they most likely would have the right tools [flushing equipment ] .
Aus-Kiwi said
09:23 AM Mar 20, 2020
Keep in mind theres a few litres of fluid in converter ? If its not burnt etc ? Its pretty much ok to change most the fluid . If done often . The problem is the cost or paying for things NOT done properly. Most are sealed units now . Built to last the warranty period . Saying they dont require servicing . Ok if your selling before warranty period etc . Manu dont particularly care about durability after warranty !!!
kesa32 said
06:10 PM Mar 20, 2020
That's right au kiwi towing adds some much more strain on everything , you've basically doubled the weight and wind resistance compared to non towing duties ..this is why auto's have to be serviced and in a lot of cases , extra cooling capacity added.. .same with the engine needing more oil changes too
Yes stealerships can leave a lot to be desired .the last service l ever had with Ford they even checked my spark plugs on my tdci motor ! :) and managed to leave the air inlet hose ( not clamped ) to the airbox .mustve been busy with the plugs and forgot lol ..didn't the manager give the mechanic a rev over all this !! ...never again , l do my own since warranty went anyway
darjak said
12:50 PM Mar 22, 2020
To give you some idea Oil required to do a full flush
on a 100series HDJ100/4.2td auto is approx 13L
Autos when towing should be serviced at lest every 80,000ks
even if they say it is a seal unit.
Most stealership only replace oil in pan.
Darjak
Stretch60 said
07:10 PM Apr 7, 2020
For my 2c worth, my Navara d40 workshop manual states to drain oil, replace filter sump gasket etc and when on the hoist run the car with sump plug draining, adding trans fluid to inlet until fluid from sump runs clear. This is the solution for getting all the old fluid out.
Swampy made me think, I've had the oil flush, no filter change. Go to the transmission specialist and they say you have to remove the sump and change the filter, had that too. Now I have noticed in the USA, they are fitting an external filter as a kit, perhaps the oil flush and an external filter is a good idea. I wondered how the oil was changed in the oil coolers when some are mounted vertically, with the fittings at the top. I can see the flush will clear the oil gallery's etc.
How is the oil flush performed anyhow?
So where are the external oil lines on the standard Ranger or BT50?
Are you saying that an oil flush and the sump removal needs to be done to change the filter ?
-- Edited by iana on Tuesday 17th of March 2020 09:52:56 AM
cheers
blaze
The best description of the fluid exchange I found, is a cylinder with a piston inside, the piston pushed to the bottom of the cylinder. The pressure side of the trans oil is fed to the bottom of the cylinder (the cylinder standing on its end). The top portion above the piston is filled with clean oil. The return oil line is fitted to the top of the cylinder. When the vehicle is started, the transmission pressured oil fills the bottom of the cylinder, pushing the piston up. This then pushes the clean oil back into the gearbox.
Hi
I think outlaw40 is back in the past. I do not believe any transmission place is equipped to do a flush or indeed would do this, to a modern current transmission. The manufacturers would not give their blessing for sure
Ask around ??
There are no external lines to tap into so the only way would be to remove the cooler from the transmission and make an adaptor that fits to the casing oil ports, similar to fitting an external cooler. Hmm why do that and then take it off again for twice the work ? You need two ports one for the oil out and the other for the return oil.
As already said the 'filter' in an automatic transmission is very coarse and best described as a strainer. Mostly its purpose is to catch any particles that may be around due to malfunctions etc and hold them from circulating through the pump and valves and jamming them. It is not like an engine oil filter and does not need regular changing. People often clean them and refit. As I understand it the original filters in these wonderful transmissions are part of the plastic sump moulding and are designed to be thrown away and replaced in most models. But there are alternative metal and larger sumps available aftermarket as well as seperate filters and gaskets.
I believe that if you change the oil at some regular interval that will do about a 50% change and the additives are replenished sufficiently. If you want to do more repeat that at say 1000 Kms and you will have about a 75% change of oil. Dropping the sump was useful in looking at the sediment there to see if there were any unwanted sludges or 'gold' particles, that indicated problems or excessive wear. Possibly also to adjust the 'bands' but modern transmissions do not have them.
Jaahn
COMPLETED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION SERVICE
ADDED AUTOMATIC FLUSH
FLUSHED COOLER, COOLER LINES, TORQUE CONVERTOR AND GEARBOX
ADDED FRICTION MODIFIER FOR SEALS AND GASKETS
CHECKED GEAR SELEECTOR LINKAGES, AUTO LEVEL AND ROADTESTED
Although I suspect it is only an oil exchange. I am intrigued to find out how they did it, maybe an adaptor fitted between the transmission housing and heat exchanger.
What you say about the changing of oil and getting a 50-75% change, seemed to be the common consensus on the net.
Please don't upset outlaw40, he's the only one commenting on my threads, don't know why everyone is so quiet, its a subject common to most!
Good on outlaw40 for his input
Jaahn to me has extensive knowledge of most mechanical issues including Sprinters and I always read his write ups.
Hi Ian....I always read your posts,and follow the responses you receive,but I comment only on things I actually know about.In this case,I know zilch,but,unlike some other members,I am always happy to learn from people who do have knowledge.My car has a manual transmission,so topic is not really relevant to me,but it always is good to learn from the experiences of others......one day I may buy an auto? Cheers.
Yes again, I only comment on things I know something about, but if its of interest to you, a comment can do wonders for the postee.
Hi Ian...just get a pyrometer.Job done.If diesel engine,up to about 650 degrees is OK on a long,steep,climb.Cheers
To remove the valve the sump has to be removed and the valve body unit has to be removed to get to this thermo valve to remove it ...this is what ive been told so l doubt a full flush can be achieved any other way without doing the disassembly , reassembly , then disassembly to reinstall , then reassemble /finish
Hi kesa32
Yes exactly. Not as straight foward as you might be able to do in older transmission.
Iana wrote:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
COMPLETED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION SERVICE
ADDED AUTOMATIC FLUSH
FLUSHED COOLER, COOLER LINES, TORQUE CONVERTOR AND GEARBOX
ADDED FRICTION MODIFIER FOR SEALS AND GASKETS
CHECKED GEAR SELEECTOR LINKAGES, AUTO LEVEL AND ROADTESTED
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________-
I am suspicious about what dealers do, so I believe a transmission flush by a dealer will be to put a can of 'stuff' (added automatic flush) in for 10 minutes before draining. If you were lucky they might have driven it around the block to circulate the 'stuff' through the cooler lines convertor and gearbox etc as listed Perhaps I am wrong and the dealer did remove all those parts and manually connected them to a machine or the apprentice put then in the parts washer possibly
. How much labour was charged for the flushing ?? What does friction modifier do for the seals and gaskets. WTF are these things they added did they list the actual name of them.
You asked for a flush they gave you one !! I do not know what they did.
Here is an example of a product in a tube that claims to do that sort of thing: Liqui Moly Auto Transmission Restorer and Flush . Be amazed and watch the magic !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAeJXvJC9As
Jaahn
PS I do not claim to be an expert on this.
-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 18th of March 2020 08:47:30 PM
transoil flush is not only to get deposited debris out but also to change oil carrying debris [in suspension ] out of the inaccessible places such as cooler and torque convertor.
Can this be done of every transmission don't no .. Only very established places are worth approaching for trans service as they most likely would have the right tools [flushing equipment ] .
Yes stealerships can leave a lot to be desired .the last service l ever had with Ford they even checked my spark plugs on my tdci motor ! :) and managed to leave the air inlet hose ( not clamped ) to the airbox .mustve been busy with the plugs and forgot lol ..didn't the manager give the mechanic a rev over all this !! ...never again , l do my own since warranty went anyway
on a 100series HDJ100/4.2td auto is approx 13L
Autos when towing should be serviced at lest every 80,000ks
even if they say it is a seal unit.
Most stealership only replace oil in pan.
Darjak