Doubt that any of these safety-chain setups would prevent the drawbar from hitting the road if the van parted company with the car? And one of them costs mega-dollars,for little gain.Cheers.
P.S Still trying to work out how to attach photos from my iPad?
Yobarr the second and third pictures show illegal attachment of the chains to the drawbar (mounting point too low), however the second shows just how near impossible it is to comply with that regulation. Our van only has one safety chain as it is under 2.5 tonne ATM and as such it is impossible. I think this regulation is wishful thinking on the part of those that regulate.
Alan
yobarr said
06:36 PM Mar 26, 2020
Brenda and Alan wrote:
Yobarr the second and third pictures show illegal attachment of the chains to the drawbar (mounting point too low), however the second shows just how near impossible it is to comply with that regulation. Our van only has one safety chain as it is under 2.5 tonne ATM and as such it is impossible. I think this regulation is wishful thinking on the part of those that regulate.
Alan
Hi Alan...you are,of course,quite right.In the majority of cases,it is almost impossible to keep the drawbar off the road if the van separates from the car.With one chain there would be no chance unless there was another chain over the shank.....I have it sorted,with a couple of hammerlocks.Cheers
P.S You will,no doubt,have noted that there is no way that the system in the first picture will prevent the drawbar hitting the road?
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 26th of March 2020 06:45:32 PM
johnhgh said
12:36 PM Mar 27, 2020
The safety chains are to prevent the van and car separating if the coupling fails. If they also keep the drawbar off the road then that is an ideal outcome, but I doubt if many setups could achieve that. I'm not sure the regulations state that the drawbar must not hit the road.
Have you ever tested this out at home?
Greg 1 said
01:17 PM Mar 27, 2020
Unfortunately with many modern towbars, the chains need to be of sufficient length to reach the attachment point, often almost under the car, and allow the car to turn without placing undue strain on the chain.
This ends up with chains being longer than ideal.
I did have a move yourself hire trailer with a fairly sorry excuse for a hitch jump off my 4wd years ago, and although the chains were a bit too long they did their job. It was an exciting ride for a few moments until I got it all pulled up and the only damage done was the great need for a new pair of undies for both passenger and self.
Needless to say the hire company got a serve but I was annoyed at myself for accepting it in the first place.
yobarr said
03:39 PM Mar 27, 2020
johnhgh wrote:
The safety chains are to prevent the van and car separating if the coupling fails. If they also keep the drawbar off the road then that is an ideal outcome, but I doubt if many setups could achieve that. I'm not sure the regulations state that the drawbar must not hit the road. Have you ever tested this out at home?
My information is that the chains must be able to prevent the drawbar hitting the road if the van becomes disconnected from the car. The law,from memory,is VSB1, but Ive forgotten where I found it! Someone more versed in accessing legislation may be able to elaborate? Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 27th of March 2020 03:41:12 PM
Mike Harding said
04:57 PM Mar 27, 2020
I've always thought I'd be better off without "safety" chains... however people following me may disagree?
elliemike said
08:57 PM Mar 27, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
I've always thought I'd be better off without "safety" chains... however people following me may disagree?
It is not the people following that are generally at risk, but people coming the opposite way.
I had a Big Mobile Welder come unhitched at 03:00 one dark morning in New Zealand 1976.
I was surprised at who was this idiot trying to overtake me, "downhill, and on a winding road", with no lights ! and sparks flying everywhere (The Drawbar on the road) . Who was this idiot !!!!!!! ???
It was the LINCOLN welding generator
Two of us going to a job and "late" and rushing each thinking the other had completed the hitch up.
Luckily no one on the road. It also did not crash though the fence and down onto the Picton Christchurch rail line. It came to a stop about Two kilometres of "Heart Stopping panic" for me and him.
Having had a camper unhitch at sixty Kmph more recently I was glad of the Crossed Chains on that occasion.
Mike Harding said
07:29 AM Mar 28, 2020
Of course this all begs the question that if the ubiquitous 50mm tow ball is subject to frequent failure then we should have a more suitable hitch mandated?
yobarr said
08:30 AM Mar 28, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
Of course this all begs the question that if the ubiquitous 50mm tow ball is subject to frequent failure then we should have a more suitable hitch mandated?
Absolutely! I have seen so many 50mm towballs snap off that I actually carry one among my spares,so that I can help anyone that needs it. Doesn't weigh much,and is bolted under the bullbar with my rated 4.5 ton shackles. Helps to get weight forward. DO35 for me.Cheers
Aus-Kiwi said
02:00 PM Apr 1, 2020
Two chain CROSSED over limits tow bar hitting the ground. Be aware of some chains dont weld great . I had to get another chain !! These are areas I dont short cut on !! We had larger ball joint years ago on horse float . Hell dangerous if it was fitted on 50mm ball joint . Trust me you dont want horse float coming off with with horse in it !! Chained or not !! Its the cheap Chinese quality coming into this country . The cheapest of the cheap !! Quality and price keeps going down !!! Then wander why things break ?!
Greg 1 said
02:40 PM Apr 1, 2020
Can't say I have seen a 50mm ball fail towing a van, although I have heard of it happening. But I did once see one that had gone through the windscreen of a 4wd narrowly missing the driver when a Muppet hooked a snatchem strap up to it to pull his mate out on the beach.
Was an excellent demonstration of why you should not do that and have a proper attach point on your vehicle.
Gundog said
02:45 PM Apr 1, 2020
I have always used two chains on my trailers even those under 750kg, likewise I replace my ball every few years.
I think it's pretty easy to adjust the length of the chain so it can catch the coupling in the event of disconnection, almost every van on the road has the chains far too long, and it's more pronounced when hammer lock links and hooks are used.
Another consideration is the emergency breakaway cable, often this so long it will not operate unless a total separation, I have mine adjusted so it will activate if the coupling becomes unmatched.
outlaw40 said
04:58 PM Apr 1, 2020
The electric breakaway is only supposed to operate in the case of a total separation.
yobarr said
07:56 PM Apr 1, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
The electric breakaway is only supposed to operate in the case of a total separation.
In many cases the chains are way too long,so that when the van drops off the hitchpoint,the wiring plug also wiil be disconnected.No wiring plug=no brakes. THAT is when the breakaway SHOULD be activated.Speaking from having witnessed a van drop off a towball,I can assure you that it is not necessary to have total separation for the breakaway to be needed.Not much fun seeing your mate's van swaying from side to side,swinging wildly off the end of his too-long safety chains,and having no brakes because the 12 pin plug had been pulled out.He was smart enough to apply the car brakes and slow the van by having it run into the back of his ute.Minimal damage was caused to either vehicle,and after a completely new 12 pin plug was fitted at the next town,and the breakaway shortened,he was on his way! Lesson learned,but he quickly changed to a DO35.Cheers
yobarr said
08:07 PM Apr 1, 2020
Greg 1 wrote:
Can't say I have seen a 50mm ball fail towing a van, although I have heard of it happening. But I did once see one that had gone through the windscreen of a 4wd narrowly missing the driver when a Muppet hooked a snatchem strap up to it to pull his mate out on the beach. Was an excellent demonstration of why you should not do that and have a proper attach point on your vehicle.
Hi Greg.....one of the worst towballs to have is one of those pretty,chrome-plated ones.Seems that chrome has a detrimental effect on the fracture toughness of steel.A metal with a low fracture toughness will snap off .....(have a brittle break) rather than bend. There is no deformation,just a clean break.Fracture toughness is most important when you apply a shock load to the metal.Cheers
Joda said
08:36 PM Apr 1, 2020
You are right about chrome towballs, plating them causes hydrogen embrittlement in some cases, depends on the type of alloy steel the ball is made from, same reason you don,t plate coil or leaf springs, too high a carbon content,
40 years as a toolmaker taught me not to believe chinese steel specs., master pln on a semi. is about 60m.m. diameter, they don,t break,
Joda
Doubt that any of these safety-chain setups would prevent the drawbar from hitting the road if the van parted company with the car? And one of them costs mega-dollars,for little gain.Cheers.
P.S Still trying to work out how to attach photos from my iPad?
Yobarr the second and third pictures show illegal attachment of the chains to the drawbar (mounting point too low), however the second shows just how near impossible it is to comply with that regulation. Our van only has one safety chain as it is under 2.5 tonne ATM and as such it is impossible. I think this regulation is wishful thinking on the part of those that regulate.
Alan
Hi Alan...you are,of course,quite right.In the majority of cases,it is almost impossible to keep the drawbar off the road if the van separates from the car.With one chain there would be no chance unless there was another chain over the shank.....I have it sorted,with a couple of hammerlocks.Cheers
P.S You will,no doubt,have noted that there is no way that the system in the first picture will prevent the drawbar hitting the road?
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 26th of March 2020 06:45:32 PM
Have you ever tested this out at home?
My information is that the chains must be able to prevent the drawbar hitting the road if the van becomes disconnected from the car. The law,from memory,is VSB1, but Ive forgotten where I found it! Someone more versed in accessing legislation may be able to elaborate? Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 27th of March 2020 03:41:12 PM
I've always thought I'd be better off without "safety" chains... however people following me may disagree?
It is not the people following that are generally at risk, but people coming the opposite way.
I had a Big Mobile Welder come unhitched at 03:00 one dark morning in New Zealand 1976.
I was surprised at who was this idiot trying to overtake me, "downhill, and on a winding road", with no lights ! and sparks flying everywhere (The Drawbar on the road) . Who was this idiot !!!!!!! ???
It was the LINCOLN welding generator
Two of us going to a job and "late" and rushing each thinking the other had completed the hitch up.
Luckily no one on the road. It also did not crash though the fence and down onto the Picton Christchurch rail line. It came to a stop about Two kilometres of "Heart Stopping panic" for me and him.
Having had a camper unhitch at sixty Kmph more recently I was glad of the Crossed Chains on that occasion.
Of course this all begs the question that if the ubiquitous 50mm tow ball is subject to frequent failure then we should have a more suitable hitch mandated?
Absolutely! I have seen so many 50mm towballs snap off that I actually carry one among my spares,so that I can help anyone that needs it. Doesn't weigh much,and is bolted under the bullbar with my rated 4.5 ton shackles. Helps to get weight forward. DO35 for me.Cheers
In many cases the chains are way too long,so that when the van drops off the hitchpoint,the wiring plug also wiil be disconnected.No wiring plug=no brakes. THAT is when the breakaway SHOULD be activated.Speaking from having witnessed a van drop off a towball,I can assure you that it is not necessary to have total separation for the breakaway to be needed.Not much fun seeing your mate's van swaying from side to side,swinging wildly off the end of his too-long safety chains,and having no brakes because the 12 pin plug had been pulled out.He was smart enough to apply the car brakes and slow the van by having it run into the back of his ute.Minimal damage was caused to either vehicle,and after a completely new 12 pin plug was fitted at the next town,and the breakaway shortened,he was on his way! Lesson learned,but he quickly changed to a DO35.Cheers
Hi Greg.....one of the worst towballs to have is one of those pretty,chrome-plated ones.Seems that chrome has a detrimental effect on the fracture toughness of steel.A metal with a low fracture toughness will snap off .....(have a brittle break) rather than bend. There is no deformation,just a clean break.Fracture toughness is most important when you apply a shock load to the metal.Cheers