Hi. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
My relay for my headlights for my 1988 Nissan civilian is faulty and at the moment I can't get a replacement for months due to postal issues (covid). Need to get something sorted out to get the bus over rego and on the road for spring.
My question is....can you just piggy back another 5 pin relay using wire and spade terminals from the existing relay input?
The relay that's faulty is:
Nissan 25230-R8201 - RELAY
tuggersbmx said
09:52 AM Jun 18, 2020
Pics of relay
-- Edited by tuggersbmx on Thursday 18th of June 2020 09:53:56 AM
He sells Nissan parts, is reliable and quick. He can source difficult to locate bits and prices are very competitive.
Gundog said
11:56 AM Jun 18, 2020
I would take the relay to Repco or similar store and they should be able to give you a suitable replacement, I don't think its a unique relay for nissam
tuggersbmx said
12:51 PM Jun 18, 2020
Hi everyone. Thanks for the responses.
I have tried local and Australia wide wreckers. I have tried repco, super cheap, other car shops and a few local auto specialist electrical companies. Have found a relay in Spain and chins but due postal restrictions they won't get here for months. Il try nizzbits but I've searched everywhere so not sure how he will go. Otherwise like I mentioned I may have to piggy back if possible or rewire a new relay in?
Cheers.
Mick
DeBe said
01:06 PM Jun 18, 2020
Not hard to do at all. I did this to get around some expensive relays to use common ones. You will find that Nissan one is not a common relay & its a 24V.
-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 18th of June 2020 01:13:24 PM
rgren2
This is what I'm talking about
Removes the issue of expensive relays .
I've had a response from nizzbits and as I thought. None in Australia. $100 and 7 weeks wait if I order.
So I'm pretty knowledgeable with auto wiring but have never redone a relay. So obviously I would need to buy another 5 pin 24v relay but I'm unsure of how to wire it up.
rgren2 any help would be appreciated.
Can I just buy a standard 24v 5 pin relay and wire it up?
Cheers
DeBe said
04:39 PM Jun 18, 2020
First of all $100 for a relay is over the top. Your 5 pin relay is a 24V Single pole Double Throw type. First carefuly cut around the bottom of the relay like in the picture. Then with a multi meter on Ohms work out the pin conections.
As DeBe shows, different relays switch differently. They are just an electronic switch, input to turn on, then the heavier current for the output.
Just have to determine input and output from the vehicle and same from relay. Also make sure the relay can handle the output current.
DeBe said
07:14 PM Jun 18, 2020
Quick Google & this comes up, Theres NC (normaly closed) NO (normaly open)Quite cheap from Alibaba But shouldn't be hard to use a more common relay
The trigger for the relay is 24volts, apparently. The load side is 24volts at probably under 20Amps.
A 12volt relay for a horn, etc. can usually handle up to 40Amps. Some relays have twin output lugs for running separate outputs at the same time. That is either off, or on x2
So the load side is not a problem.
Therefore, as a "temporary" or even permanent mod:
Find a pair of garden type horn/headlight/driving lamp relays that have separate connections for the switching function and the trigger function. Can be Single Pole Single Throw if only turning ON, but would need to be SPDT if actually turning one set of lamps off and another on. They should be of same brand, or have similar input characteristics - coil resistance. Meter on OHMS.
Wire the two 12volt relays thus:
Trigger circuits in series to allow the 24volts coming from the switch to be spread across the two relays. i.e. daisy chain.
But use just one of the relays to do the switching. Should not matter which one.
As already suggested, use some suitably sized wire and crimp terminals to connect to the existing socket.
Trigger wires would be carrying around an amp, load wires to carry say up to 40 amps. Make sure the single ground connection is both clean and secure.
Insulate all wiring with heatshrink especially the connectors, even if unshrunk. Support the new relays. Keep the new wiring to under 100mm if possible.
The two relays will work together but only one will carry the load. The vehicle will not know anything is different. You might hear the two go click.
If you are interested, and have a voltmeter, then with the trigger signal present, and with the negative probe connected to ground, it will read around 24 -26 volts at the input to the pair, while the mid point would read around 12 volts. The output will go from 24volts to 0volts depending on switch position. That is where your feed wire from the lights goes.
patrol03 said
06:38 PM Jun 19, 2020
There are quite a few 24v relays listed in my old Hella catalogue. Narva also list 24v relays that would be suitable to replace your unit. Your best bet is to call into a reputable auto electrician taking your old part with you. I am sure you will find a replacement part at a reasonable price.
Hella Part no 3081. 20/30A 24v 3085 50A 24v
You may be able to check the Narva catalogue on line.
Hope this helps.
-- Edited by patrol03 on Friday 19th of June 2020 06:40:36 PM
None of those relays have the same base pin pattern. He will still have to adapt the replacement relay to the socket.
tuggersbmx said
08:45 AM Jun 21, 2020
Thanks everyone for the responses.
I understand that I can buy a different 24v relay and it would have a different pin pattern but instead of opening up any relay and soldering ECT can't I just use male and female splade terminals. As in... Plug in to the relay base plate and then just wire that to the right terminal on the actual relay. Pretty much just to be able to reconnect due to the different pin patterns.
The Travelling Dillberries said
09:20 AM Jun 21, 2020
tuggersbmx wrote:
Thanks everyone for the responses. I understand that I can buy a different 24v relay and it would have a different pin pattern but instead of opening up any relay and soldering ECT can't I just use male and female splade terminals. As in... Plug in to the relay base plate and then just wire that to the right terminal on the actual relay. Pretty much just to be able to reconnect due to the different pin patterns.
Yes you can, just ensure the flat pins are a tight fit into the base and same for the female s onto the relay. By far the simplest method if you are waiting on an original. If it's to be permanent the soldering method is best.
Chris.
patrol03 said
09:22 AM Jun 21, 2020
There is no reason that you cannot rewire the relay directly using spade terminals providing you consult your manual and get the colour coding correct, alternatively you can carefully follow your nose so to speak. Don't forget to use shrink-wrap on each terminal and make a neat and professional job of it. Secure it firmly in a dry and accessible position
Prior to your rewiring job I would be looking for the cause of the original burnout. Usually in older vehicles dirt, grease and moisture play their part in causing high resistances and heat generation.
In the motor trade terminals are always crimped. Solder does not always make the best of connections but we won't go down that path and argue with the home mechanics.
-- Edited by patrol03 on Sunday 21st of June 2020 09:28:15 AM
Pics of relay
-- Edited by tuggersbmx on Thursday 18th of June 2020 09:53:56 AM
mailto:nizzbits@hotmail.com
He sells Nissan parts, is reliable and quick. He can source difficult to locate bits and prices are very competitive.
-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 18th of June 2020 01:13:24 PM
www.nizzbits.com.au/information.php
Just have to determine input and output from the vehicle and same from relay. Also make sure the relay can handle the output current.
A bit of lateral thinking here, maybe.
The trigger for the relay is 24volts, apparently. The load side is 24volts at probably under 20Amps.
A 12volt relay for a horn, etc. can usually handle up to 40Amps. Some relays have twin output lugs for running separate outputs at the same time. That is either off, or on x2
So the load side is not a problem.
Therefore, as a "temporary" or even permanent mod:
Find a pair of garden type horn/headlight/driving lamp relays that have separate connections for the switching function and the trigger function. Can be Single Pole Single Throw if only turning ON, but would need to be SPDT if actually turning one set of lamps off and another on. They should be of same brand, or have similar input characteristics - coil resistance. Meter on OHMS.
Wire the two 12volt relays thus:
Trigger circuits in series to allow the 24volts coming from the switch to be spread across the two relays. i.e. daisy chain.
But use just one of the relays to do the switching. Should not matter which one.
As already suggested, use some suitably sized wire and crimp terminals to connect to the existing socket.
Trigger wires would be carrying around an amp, load wires to carry say up to 40 amps. Make sure the single ground connection is both clean and secure.
Insulate all wiring with heatshrink especially the connectors, even if unshrunk. Support the new relays. Keep the new wiring to under 100mm if possible.
The two relays will work together but only one will carry the load. The vehicle will not know anything is different. You might hear the two go click.
If you are interested, and have a voltmeter, then with the trigger signal present, and with the negative probe connected to ground, it will read around 24 -26 volts at the input to the pair, while the mid point would read around 12 volts. The output will go from 24volts to 0volts depending on switch position. That is where your feed wire from the lights goes.
There are quite a few 24v relays listed in my old Hella catalogue. Narva also list 24v relays that would be suitable to replace your unit. Your best bet is to call into a reputable auto electrician taking your old part with you. I am sure you will find a replacement part at a reasonable price.
Hella Part no 3081. 20/30A 24v
3085 50A 24v
You may be able to check the Narva catalogue on line.
Hope this helps.
-- Edited by patrol03 on Friday 19th of June 2020 06:40:36 PM
SPDT Horn Relay 30A 24V
https://www.jaycar.com.au/spdt-horn-relay-30a-24v/p/SY4047
Yes you can, just ensure the flat pins are a tight fit into the base and same for the female s onto the relay. By far the simplest method if you are waiting on an original. If it's to be permanent the soldering method is best.
Chris.
There is no reason that you cannot rewire the relay directly using spade terminals providing you consult your manual and get the colour coding correct, alternatively you can carefully follow your nose so to speak. Don't forget to use shrink-wrap on each terminal and make a neat and professional job of it. Secure it firmly in a dry and accessible position
Prior to your rewiring job I would be looking for the cause of the original burnout. Usually in older vehicles dirt, grease and moisture play their part in causing high resistances and heat generation.
In the motor trade terminals are always crimped. Solder does not always make the best of connections but we won't go down that path and argue with the home mechanics.
-- Edited by patrol03 on Sunday 21st of June 2020 09:28:15 AM