Hi all, we have a 2019 2wd MUX and currently tow a 1969 Viscount weighing 1300kg fully loaded. I am finding the transmission tunnel in drivers footwell is getting hot on my left leg which concerns me as we are upgrading to a Crusader caravan which will be approx 2800kg fully loaded. Has anyone had any transmission overheating problems while towing and if so did fitting a transmission cooler fix the problem .
JackoFJR said
10:21 AM Jun 27, 2020
I had a Dmax with 5 speed auto and yes it did get hot in slow going when towing or 4wding , I fitted a extra cooler that did help a lot , you should get a Scan Gauge or similar to see what the auto temps are actually getting to
Aus-Kiwi said
10:30 AM Jun 27, 2020
Is it from exhaust ? What Im
Thinking is mechanical side ok but transmission tunnel is getting hot due to radiation and less air flow ? I run some exhaust rap over 18 or so on
Exhaust around floor, trans area to reduce heat . If trans is getting hot ? Is auto changing down ? Or you changing down ? On hills etc . If labour too much the turbo and exhaust heats up big time . Starts a vicious cycle. Not much point at times asking dealers ? Most cases they deny issues !!
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:33 AM Jun 27, 2020
Hi Geezer,
Firstly welcome to a very helpful friendly forum.
Have you been in touch with your dealer? I asked about transmission coolers & was told they weren't necessary. I assume you're certain that the 1300kg is the maximum weight you're towing. There seems to be something drastically wrong. Engine temp gauge reading ok? Hand brake on the van is off (don't laugh, I left mine part on recently - won't say for how long).
Is your car the LSM or LSU spec (vinyl, carpet on the floor)?
Geezer said
10:52 AM Jun 27, 2020
Thanks for the quick replies guys. Spoke to the dealer and at last service had everything checked and transmission fluid replaced, they said a cooler was not required but the service manager has one on his Toyota . All temps and gauges operating correctly in prescribed ranges but they did,nt do a towing under load test. The car is an MUX LSM 4X2 3.0 L 6spd Auto , we,ve done 80,000 km in 2 years as its our daily driver as well as tow vehicle , all services completed and no problems till this one . Will have to check location and routing of exhaust to see if this could be a heat source. if I decide to fit a cooler can anyone recommend a make and model . Cheers ,Geezer.
Wanda said
01:02 PM Jun 27, 2020
I think my first port of call would be to buy a scan gauge which should be able to tell you just how hot your transmission is getting. From memory cost is just over $200, cheaper than a transcooler which is probably closer to a grand installed and then it may not fix your problem. You need to find out where the "heat" is coming from, exhaust, geabox or what??
Scan gauge can monitor so many other engine temps, km/100lt etc etc, just plugs into your obd port so no installation costs.
cheers
ian
Mike Harding said
01:37 PM Jun 27, 2020
Are you towing in auto ('D') or manual?
With a six speed box gear six will not be suitable for towing and five only when on the flat with no significant head wind.
I'm with Mike being an auto 5th and 6th are not for towing, if you leave it in 4th then there will be no need for a cooler or scangauge.
Geezer said
12:13 PM Jun 28, 2020
Hi all , have just read the towing info suggested by Mike and Gundog about 5th and 6th gear towing in auto, very informative I did'nt know any of this so a big thank you guys. will try a couple of test runs in manual with the old caravan to see how things go , watch this space this newbie has a lot to learn LOL .
Monica W said
07:02 PM Jun 28, 2020
You will regret buying such a heavy caravan to tow behind a Isuzu Mux
Be prepared to buy a heavier more capable vehicle and a 4wd
With the axle loadings on a Mux you cannot and will not be legal unless you have only a driver and nothing else in the Mux
What monster did you buy to get to 2800kg ?
swamp said
10:14 PM Jun 28, 2020
Hi
If towing ,yes u can measure the trans temp first to verify requirement .But It never hurts to fit a cooler as your trans will last longer as a result particularly if towing close to the vehicles MAX capacity . If fitting cooler ALWAYS get the BIGGEST cooler possible .
Mike Harding said
04:43 AM Jun 29, 2020
Monica W wrote:
You will regret buying such a heavy caravan to tow behind a Isuzu Mux Be prepared to buy a heavier more capable vehicle and a 4wd With the axle loadings on a Mux you cannot and will not be legal unless you have only a driver and nothing else in the Mux What monster did you buy to get to 2800kg ?
A modern caravan, fully loaded, at 2.8T is hardly a monster.
The Mux has a towing capacity of 3T and, I assume, its axles have been designed to cope with such a load.
The above review tests towing with a Jayco Journey which, they state, weighs 2.6T unloaded so water and supplies would very quickly push that over 2.8T.
yobarr said
05:21 AM Jun 29, 2020
Monica W wrote:
You will regret buying such a heavy caravan to tow behind a Isuzu Mux Be prepared to buy a heavier more capable vehicle and a 4wd With the axle loadings on a Mux you cannot and will not be legal unless you have only a driver and nothing else in the Mux What monster did you buy to get to 2800kg ?
You are absolutely right,Monica,and later today I will explain why a DMax cannot safely tow 3000kg,or anywhere near that figure,as a PIG trailer.Cheers
Mike Harding said
05:49 AM Jun 29, 2020
yobarr wrote:later today I will explain why a DMax cannot safely tow 3000kg,or anywhere near that figure,as a PIG trailer.
Must you?
JackoFJR said
11:30 AM Jun 29, 2020
Gundog wrote:
I'm with Mike being an auto 5th and 6th are not for towing, if you leave it in 4th then there will be no need for a cooler or scangauge.
Is that right how do you know this , I had a Dmax , so did a couple of mates , I know how hot the auto gets when towing and not towing using manual selection because I had a Scan Gauge . I fitted a extra cooler the mate didn't , there were times his trans light would come on and mine didn't but the SC would show over 100c . I was towing the mate wasn't .
A Scan Gauge 2 for a cost of about $230 is a good idea .
yobarr said
12:10 PM Jun 29, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
yobarr wrote:later today I will explain why a DMax cannot safely tow 3000kg,or anywhere near that figure,as a PIG trailer.
Must you?
Hi Mike...in the interest of safety of the OP,and indeed all other road users,I feel that I must.Not to mention the probable refusal of an insurance claim in the event of an accident. Cheers
Mike Harding said
01:37 PM Jun 29, 2020
OK Yobarr, these are my figures for my Trailblazer and Snowy River SR-19 - do your worst :) but it looks to me like I come in OK :) (Can't calculate axle weights - must be weighed)
Trailblazer: Max tow weight = 3000 Max towball = 300 Carrying capacity 626 Front axle max = 1450 Rear axle max = 1600 Above from Holden manual
Following from other sources Kerb weight 2203 inc driver and full fuel GVM 2820 GCM 5700
----
My payload: Gen 25 Batteries 30 + 20 + 12 + 12 = 74 Fridge 30 Diesel/petrol 25 Sundry 25
Hardly any use measuring temps ? To if your towing ? Fit a cooler and DONT tow in D or if auto doesnt change DOWN ? Why I asked earlier. We went tnrough this on a Ford forum we asked the techs at ZF ok different trans !! He said even with cooler it wont run that cool to damage trans ! We dont have sub zero ambiant temps here . Itll be fine !! Or change down to about 1800rpm ?? Where whole trans is in its SWEET spot !!
yobarr said
03:36 PM Jun 29, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
OK Yobarr, these are my figures for my Trailblazer and Snowy River SR-19 - do your worst :) but it looks to me like I come in OK :) (Can't calculate axle weights - must be weighed)
Trailblazer: Max tow weight = 3000 Max towball = 300 Carrying capacity 626 Front axle max = 1450 Rear axle max = 1600 Above from Holden manual
Following from other sources Kerb weight 2203 inc driver and full fuel GVM 2820 GCM 5700
----
My payload: Gen 25 Batteries 30 + 20 + 12 + 12 = 74 Fridge 30 Diesel/petrol 25 Sundry 25
Hi Mike...all very interesting,but unfortunately incorrect.Just for now,to get you thinking,your towball weight,even though it is too low,still puts around 350kg into your rear axle.If your rear axle now has reached its 1600kg limit,the most you can have on your front axle is 1220kg.Later today,or possibly tomorrow,I will provide a detailed explanation.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 29th of June 2020 04:10:48 PM
Monica W said
12:26 PM Jun 30, 2020
Duplicate
-- Edited by Monica W on Tuesday 30th of June 2020 12:28:24 PM
Monica W said
12:27 PM Jun 30, 2020
Other than been overweight the transmission won't last long positioning the van in 2wd. Burnt transmissions today are most cases throw away $5k new transmission
2.8t is a ridiculous monster. This bigger higher and off road is BS
Mike Harding said
02:14 PM Jun 30, 2020
Monica: you sound more like a bloke... but maybe it's just a monica? :)
A question: do you live in your van?
If you don't then any size van will do for holidays, if you do then you'll know larger vans generally provide a better full time living experience. I live full time in mine.
If you care to surf the net of the major Australian caravan manufacturers' sites I think you will find most of the upmarket vans are 2.5T or so which, inevitably, means they'll be 3T(ish) when loaded.
I have not had issues towing my 2.8T van with either the Jackaroo (bit lacking in power) or the Trailblazer so I'm not really sure why you seem so adverse to larger vans but, hey!, if they don't work for you then don't buy one - I'll not give you grief for not owning one :)
Gundog said
04:55 PM Jun 30, 2020
Just to set thing straight, we are full time caravan livers, it's a 25' Jayco and it's towed by a 2WD 3 ltr Ranger, my preference is because I tow a big van I have a manual gearbox, all be it a 5 speed, when the van is attached it runs in direct drive which is 4th gear. As for the weight it's a tab over 2.6 tonne the Ute full loaded is around 2.7 tonne The GCM max is 5.5 tonne at the last weighing it was 5.3 and a bit tonne, the ball weight is 8% but thats irrelevant when hitched up, I use a WDH because it's a requirement for my model Ford, even if it want a requirement I would still use one.
If you choose to tow in any overdrive, at the time you least expect you could have an "oh ****" moment that could totally ruin your day/trip, then again you might get away with it, but I don't like the odds.
Mike Harding said
06:43 PM Jul 1, 2020
Yobarr?
yobarr said
07:48 PM Jul 1, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
Yobarr?
Sorry Mike...I have just been temporarily (?) lured out of "retirement" to help a company I used to work for,but I also have been doing a little bit of research on your behalf.Just briefly,using the generally accepted 10% towball weight,a 280kg towball weight,plus the weight of the actual towbar structure,will put around 450kg onto your car's rear axle.This weight does not include all the things that you originally listed,weighing 179kg(?) from memory,so you have at least 629kg extra weight on your factory rear axle load.You also have taken around 140kg off your car's front axle. (think "levers"). However,I would like to congratulate you on choosing the Trailblazer,as after my investigations,I found that its abilities are quite impressive,and it actually surprised me! Certainly it is a major upgrade from your faithful old Jackeroo (I think it was?) Great to see that you seem genuinely interested in getting your weights right.Details tomorrow,if I can find time.I also will post details of the MUX,but the fact that it weighs around 200kg less than the Trailblazer is negated by its GVM,which is about 170kg less than the "Holden". Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 1st of July 2020 08:18:32 PM
Mike Harding said
10:36 AM Jul 2, 2020
Hi Yobarr
From the Trailblazer Owner's Manual:
---- For single-axle trailers, the tow ball load should be 10 % of the loaded trailer weight. For heavy trailers with more than one axle, the tow ball load should be 5 % - 10 % of the loaded trailer weight. ----
My caravan has two axles and seems to tow well at 250kg TB weight.
My understanding of the calculation for leverage on the axles is:
I need to weigh the axles to confirm the numbers because I cannot find a spec. for their "standard" weight.
As I've removed both sets of rear seats this will take (say) 40kg off the rear axle too.
What are your thoughts?
yobarr said
01:54 PM Jul 2, 2020
Mike Harding wrote:
Hi Yobarr
From the Trailblazer Owner's Manual:
---- For single-axle trailers, the tow ball load should be 10 % of the loaded trailer weight. For heavy trailers with more than one axle, y the tow ball load should be 5 % - 10 % of the loaded trailer weight. ----
My caravan has two axles and seems to tow well at 250kg TB weight.
My understanding of the calculation for leverage on the axles is:
I need to weigh the axles to confirm the numbers because I cannot find a spec. for their "standard" weight.
As I've removed both sets of rear seats this will take (say) 40kg off the rear axle too.
What are your thoughts?
Hi Mike...your formula is indeed correct,but I feel that you have understated TBO,as rear overhang of car is 1200,but the towball will be 150-200mm beyond that. You then need to add the 30kg weight of the actual towbar structure to your towball weight before you do your calculation.The '5-10% of loaded trailer weight is relevant only for shorter,lower,box type trailers where the weight is more centralised,and there is less effect from yaw.No good for caravans.You are running 9%,which is probably OK with your setup,as at least the car is heavier than the van.This is absolutely necessary if you are keen to minimise the chances of the 'tail wagging the dog'.Even using your 250kg towball weight,and adding the 30kg towbar weight,with only a 1350mm TBO you have added over 400kg to your car's rear axle. With your estimated 179kg of 'stuff',you already have added close on 600kg to your rear axle...and that is being conservative,as always there is more stuff you 'need'.Removing the seats certainly will help....you have done well.Cheers
P.S Later I will post factory axle weights so you have a better idea of where you stand.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 2nd of July 2020 01:56:08 PM
Hi all, we have a 2019 2wd MUX and currently tow a 1969 Viscount weighing 1300kg fully loaded. I am finding the transmission tunnel in drivers footwell is getting hot on my left leg which concerns me as we are upgrading to a Crusader caravan which will be approx 2800kg fully loaded. Has anyone had any transmission overheating problems while towing and if so did fitting a transmission cooler fix the problem .
Firstly welcome to a very helpful friendly forum.
Have you been in touch with your dealer? I asked about transmission coolers & was told they weren't necessary. I assume you're certain that the 1300kg is the maximum weight you're towing. There seems to be something drastically wrong. Engine temp gauge reading ok? Hand brake on the van is off (don't laugh, I left mine part on recently - won't say for how long).
Is your car the LSM or LSU spec (vinyl, carpet on the floor)?
Scan gauge can monitor so many other engine temps, km/100lt etc etc, just plugs into your obd port so no installation costs.
cheers
ian
Are you towing in auto ('D') or manual?
With a six speed box gear six will not be suitable for towing and five only when on the flat with no significant head wind.
See this recent thread:
https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t66712566/towing-overdrive/
I'm with Mike being an auto 5th and 6th are not for towing, if you leave it in 4th then there will be no need for a cooler or scangauge.
Be prepared to buy a heavier more capable vehicle and a 4wd
With the axle loadings on a Mux you cannot and will not be legal unless you have only a driver and nothing else in the Mux
What monster did you buy to get to 2800kg ?
If towing ,yes u can measure the trans temp first to verify requirement .But It never hurts to fit a cooler as your trans will last longer as a result particularly if towing close to the vehicles MAX capacity . If fitting cooler ALWAYS get the BIGGEST cooler possible .
A modern caravan, fully loaded, at 2.8T is hardly a monster.
The Mux has a towing capacity of 3T and, I assume, its axles have been designed to cope with such a load.
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/isuzu-mu-x-ls-u-vs-holden-trailblazer-ltz-towing-comparison-review-75175
The above review tests towing with a Jayco Journey which, they state, weighs 2.6T unloaded so water and supplies would very quickly push that over 2.8T.
You are absolutely right,Monica,and later today I will explain why a DMax cannot safely tow 3000kg,or anywhere near that figure,as a PIG trailer.Cheers
Must you?
Is that right how do you know this , I had a Dmax , so did a couple of mates , I know how hot the auto gets when towing and not towing using manual selection because I had a Scan Gauge . I fitted a extra cooler the mate didn't , there were times his trans light would come on and mine didn't but the SC would show over 100c . I was towing the mate wasn't .
A Scan Gauge 2 for a cost of about $230 is a good idea .
Hi Mike...in the interest of safety of the OP,and indeed all other road users,I feel that I must.Not to mention the probable refusal of an insurance claim in the event of an accident. Cheers
OK Yobarr, these are my figures for my Trailblazer and Snowy River
SR-19 - do your worst :) but it looks to me like I come in OK :)
(Can't calculate axle weights - must be weighed)
Trailblazer:
Max tow weight = 3000
Max towball = 300
Carrying capacity 626
Front axle max = 1450
Rear axle max = 1600
Above from Holden manual
Following from other sources
Kerb weight 2203 inc driver and full fuel
GVM 2820
GCM 5700
----
My payload:
Gen 25
Batteries 30 + 20 + 12 + 12 = 74
Fridge 30
Diesel/petrol 25
Sundry 25
Total = 179
----
Caravan 2800
Ball weight 250
----
Vehicle load 179 + ball 250 = 429
----
Total vehicle weight = 2203 + 429 = 2632
GCM = 2632 + (2800 - 250) = 5182
Hi Mike...all very interesting,but unfortunately incorrect.Just for now,to get you thinking,your towball weight,even though it is too low,still puts around 350kg into your rear axle.If your rear axle now has reached its 1600kg limit,the most you can have on your front axle is 1220kg.Later today,or possibly tomorrow,I will provide a detailed explanation.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 29th of June 2020 04:10:48 PM
Duplicate
-- Edited by Monica W on Tuesday 30th of June 2020 12:28:24 PM
Other than been overweight the transmission won't last long positioning the van in 2wd. Burnt transmissions today are most cases throw away $5k new transmission
2.8t is a ridiculous monster. This bigger higher and off road is BS
Monica: you sound more like a bloke... but maybe it's just a monica? :)
A question: do you live in your van?
If you don't then any size van will do for holidays, if you do then you'll know larger vans generally provide a better full time living experience. I live full time in mine.
If you care to surf the net of the major Australian caravan manufacturers' sites I think you will find most of the upmarket vans are 2.5T or so which, inevitably, means they'll be 3T(ish) when loaded.
I have not had issues towing my 2.8T van with either the Jackaroo (bit lacking in power) or the Trailblazer so I'm not really sure why you seem so adverse to larger vans but, hey!, if they don't work for you then don't buy one - I'll not give you grief for not owning one :)
Yobarr?
Sorry Mike...I have just been temporarily (?) lured out of "retirement" to help a company I used to work for,but I also have been doing a little bit of research on your behalf.Just briefly,using the generally accepted 10% towball weight,a 280kg towball weight,plus the weight of the actual towbar structure,will put around 450kg onto your car's rear axle.This weight does not include all the things that you originally listed,weighing 179kg(?) from memory,so you have at least 629kg extra weight on your factory rear axle load.You also have taken around 140kg off your car's front axle. (think "levers"). However,I would like to congratulate you on choosing the Trailblazer,as after my investigations,I found that its abilities are quite impressive,and it actually surprised me! Certainly it is a major upgrade from your faithful old Jackeroo (I think it was?) Great to see that you seem genuinely interested in getting your weights right.Details tomorrow,if I can find time.I also will post details of the MUX,but the fact that it weighs around 200kg less than the Trailblazer is negated by its GVM,which is about 170kg less than the "Holden". Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 1st of July 2020 08:18:32 PM
Hi Yobarr
From the Trailblazer Owner's Manual:
----
For single-axle trailers, the tow ball load should be 10 % of the
loaded trailer weight. For heavy trailers with more than one axle,
the tow ball load should be 5 % - 10 % of the loaded trailer weight.
----
My caravan has two axles and seems to tow well at 250kg TB weight.
My understanding of the calculation for leverage on the axles is:
Ratio = TB overhang / wheelbase
Therefore (in my case):
(1200 / 2845) = 0.42
Therefore: Additional rear axle load = (0.42 * 250) + 250 = 355kg
And front axle reduction = 105kg
I need to weigh the axles to confirm the numbers because I cannot
find a spec. for their "standard" weight.
As I've removed both sets of rear seats this will take (say) 40kg off
the rear axle too.
What are your thoughts?
Hi Mike...your formula is indeed correct,but I feel that you have understated TBO,as rear overhang of car is 1200,but the towball will be 150-200mm beyond that. You then need to add the 30kg weight of the actual towbar structure to your towball weight before you do your calculation.The '5-10% of loaded trailer weight is relevant only for shorter,lower,box type trailers where the weight is more centralised,and there is less effect from yaw.No good for caravans.You are running 9%,which is probably OK with your setup,as at least the car is heavier than the van.This is absolutely necessary if you are keen to minimise the chances of the 'tail wagging the dog'.Even using your 250kg towball weight,and adding the 30kg towbar weight,with only a 1350mm TBO you have added over 400kg to your car's rear axle. With your estimated 179kg of 'stuff',you already have added close on 600kg to your rear axle...and that is being conservative,as always there is more stuff you 'need'.Removing the seats certainly will help....you have done well.Cheers
P.S Later I will post factory axle weights so you have a better idea of where you stand.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 2nd of July 2020 01:56:08 PM