Hi.
I'm nearly at the point of either upgrading my ED33 1988 civilian engine with a turbo / exhaust/ Intercooler or looking at total engine swap. Has anyone swapped out the ED33 engine for a something else? TD42 maybe?
Any thoughts / help apreciated.
If I could go back in time I would have bought a TD42 or coaster but I've invested too much now on this current build to quit now.
Cheers
PeterInSa said
03:38 PM Jul 4, 2020
Hi Somebody in NZ with a ED33 Civilian replaced their Engine/gearbox with a 4.2 Atlas engine see page 2 of following thread;
If you wished to replace your motor with a more powerful model Nissan did make 4 cylinder diesels in these model series shown below. Note the increasing power outputs. They would swap in more easily and bolt up almost the same as yours, and easier than fitting a 6 cyl from a Patrol. However you would have to get one that was imported from Japan most likely. If you search for Japanese parts/motor importers you will find them.
I believe the demand for these motors is lower than the Patrol 4,2 and they should be cheaper to buy. The busses were called Civilians and the light trucks were called Nissan Cabstars here but in Japan usually called Nissan Atlas. As you can see the following T on the number shows it has a turbo fitted.
Jaahn
ED-series
The Nissan ED engine is a 3.0 L, 3.3 L or 3.5 L straight-4 diesel automobile engines manufactured by Nissan. The ED engines were mainly used for buses (Nisan Civilian) and light trucks (Nissan Atlas).
Power output ranged from 84 HP (ED30 naturally aspirated) to 120 HP (ED33T turbocharged).
ED30
3.0 l
86 PS; 63 kW; 84 HP
ED33
3.3 l
96 PS; 71 kW; 95 HP
ED33T
3.3 l
122 PS; 90 kW; 120 HP
ED35
3.5 l
FD-series
The Nissan FD engine is used primarily for Nissan Truck and Bus commercial vehicles. It is a 4 cylinder and displacements ranged from 3.3 L to 4.6 L.
Power output ranged from 98 HP (FD33 naturally aspirated) to 133 HP (FD46 naturally aspirated). The FD35T is a turbocharged engine and produced 127 HP (95 kW).
As the Civilian is still being currently produced in Japan with both motor configurations to same chassis a "Grey Motor" transmission combination would most probably be available at Nissan truck wreckers.
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Saturday 4th of July 2020 05:24:11 PM
Jaahn said
08:38 PM Jul 4, 2020
Hmm
I am guessing that the OP might not be mechanically adept enough to do an engine swap himself. I could be wrong. But if you have to pay by the hour for a decent mechanic to change a motor for you it will cost a lot if the motor is the same type and is a bastard of a job in a bus or any cab over engine vehicle.
But if you want to put a completely different motor in and have to make up the details as you go, like engine mounts, cooling system, fuel system, controls, cut the body, etc etc it takes forever. I have done it. So the hours add up at say $80? hr if you can find one for that, who has a workshop to do the job. . That was why I suggested the ED and FD motors as they are based on the same block outline and mountings all round as far as I know. Hmm Not only that the cost to buy a good six cyl 4.2 TD turbo will make your other options look much better ! IMHO.
So my suggestion is for the OP to get some prices for his options to buy motors and prices of fitting them to a usable driving standard. Then stare at these for a while over a stiff drink and see where this should go. Getting his own fitted with a turbo might look good. Good luck if he can do the other work himself at home ??
Cheers Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Saturday 4th of July 2020 08:41:29 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Saturday 4th of July 2020 08:58:43 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:26 PM Jul 4, 2020
Hi tuggersbmx,
Looks like a bit of work here with a bit more than a weekend to do it all!
Your engine is a 4 cylinder, the Nissan TD42 a six - is there room?
My first 4.2L Patrol (a GQ) was naturally aspirated & was ok until I bought our Eagle. I thought I could do with more power & my brother-in-law suggested adding a turbo. I asked around & found, yes it was possible but an engine designed for a turbo would have different water/oil galleries to shunt the heat away safely. So at 230,000 kms, I added gas injection. It did all I wanted, cost a bit (did get a refund from the Govt) but I did another 60,000kms on it.
When we changed to the GU Patrol (at 271,000kms on the clock), I immediately added the gas injection. It performed better than the naturally aspirated engine & gave me excellent fuel economy.
Note - both engines were gas injected - Gas and diesel used at the same time with somewhere between 20 to 25% gas to diesel ratio. The car when I sold it last year had 454,000kms on it & was still performing well. My wife still questions why we had to change cars!
Unfortunately, Diesel-Gas Australia have closed down their operations & support so that's not viable any more.
I'd suggest changing the engine to a manufactured turbo if you have the coins - if the clutch & gearbox can take the extra power (or change the lot + the radiator). It might be cheaper to get something better suited - Jaahn has laid out the dramas!
tuggersbmx said
12:48 PM Jul 5, 2020
Hi everyone.
Thanks for the info / input.
I may have found a FD33T engine off a 1986 cabstar.
So would that just mount up quite easy?
What would be a rough idea on cost to swap engine out? I do not want to do it myself. To much hassle.
Still looking around as I'd like to try find a ed35t or FD35T.
Pretty dam rare.
Cheers
Mick
Possum3 said
01:58 PM Jul 5, 2020
There are a lot of mechanics looking for work at the moment have a look around your local "Industrial Complex" and see what's going on.
Jaahn said
02:19 PM Jul 5, 2020
tuggersbmx wrote:
Hi everyone. Thanks for the info / input. I may have found a FD33T engine off a 1986 cabstar. So would that just mount up quite easy? What would be a rough idea on cost to swap engine out? I do not want to do it myself. To much hassle. Still looking around as I'd like to try find a ed35t or FD35T. Pretty dam rare. Cheers Mick
Hi Mick
Lucky to find that engine as there were not many Cabstars in Australia with the turbo. I bought one years ago for the engine and was going to fit it in my Civilian but it is a bastard of a job and the rust beat me anyway so I sold the bus for parts and then the truck engine. BUT there were none of the other engine models sold officially in Australia so an importer would be your best place to ask.
AS for the price of fitting it, you would have to ask specifically how much and if a mechanic was actually interested in doing the job. I believe the FD33T will bolt in OK but there will be small details to change perhaps the clutch, and the engine lid need lifting a bit to clear. Minor job. Lifting the engines in and out is the major job as it will be done from underneath and it is VERY heavy. A hoist would be the best way but the bus may not fit in most smaller workshops on the hoist.
Good luck Jaahn
tuggersbmx said
12:02 PM Jul 8, 2020
Hi everyone. What do you think a fair price is for a ed33T and gearbox with it? Got an option but not sure. It's bloody hard to even find a turbo engine let alone the gearbox to suit.
Cheers
Mick
That's for a whole bus imported. Cost like 15-20k. I'm just talking engine / gearbox.
Jaahn said
06:59 PM Jul 8, 2020
tuggersbmx wrote:
Hi everyone. What do you think a fair price is for a ed33T and gearbox with it? Got an option but not sure. It's bloody hard to even find a turbo engine let alone the gearbox to suit. Cheers Mick
Hi Mick
What is important to know is First how does the engine come, fully complete engine or not, fitted or pickup or on a pallet freighted. Second what is the certifiable history and milage the engine has done. Thirdly what warranty does it have and who is offering the warranty, a business or private.
If you fit or pay to have fitted a motor and box and it is not good then it is a sh*t fight from there or if the motor seems OK but slowly gets bad you will not be happy or get another one ! So proceed carefully. They cost real money to buy, and I am not offering an opinion on here.
Good value is when it does what you want in the long run and is cheaper than other options. What are your other options ?
Jaahn
tuggersbmx said
08:37 PM Jul 8, 2020
Hi jaahn.
Engine is complete. Still in another 88 civilian. Bus has done 290k. Bus is drivable with the whole drive train (turbo engine, 6 speed gear box) 6 new there and all the external trims ( lights ECT) shell is ready to paint too.
Owner said it has no issues but could probably do with a new turbo.
I bought it for $1000!!! Which I think is a good buy considering the tires and all the spares I could get from it.
Hopefully it all works out.
Mick
tuggersbmx said
08:38 PM Jul 8, 2020
Private sale.
No warranty.
Jaahn said
10:14 AM Jul 9, 2020
tuggersbmx wrote:
Hi jaahn. Engine is complete. Still in another 88 civilian. Bus has done 290k. Bus is drivable with the whole drive train (turbo engine, 6 speed gear box) 6 new there and all the external trims ( lights ECT) shell is ready to paint too. Owner said it has no issues but could probably do with a new turbo. I bought it for $1000!!! Which I think is a good buy considering the tires and all the spares I could get from it. Hopefully it all works out. Mick
Hi MIck
That is good value and if it test drives OK then you have done very well. I hope you get it together as you want and lots of good years out of it.
My tip would be to get the rust under control NOW and keep on top of it or it will rust away while you are not watching. You need to get the rust controlled from the inside seams and crevices around the top before it is impossible to get to it.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 9th of July 2020 10:16:24 AM
tuggersbmx said
05:17 PM Jul 9, 2020
Thanks for the response Jaahn.
I believe (hopefully) I have got a good deal and things will work out. I have the civilian with ED33 non turbo engine and 10 speed splitter in it that is 90% done and nearly ready to be on the road for spring. When I first got the one I have atm it had rust EVERYWHERE! I spent the first 6 weeks cutting it all out and fixing it up.
Now if this other shell/ engine/ gearbox is in much better condition then I may consider just moving my fit out on the internal of my bus to the other one. It will cost 3k minimum to get the engine / gearbox transferred to the bus I already have. Or I could leave the engine / gearbox in the one I have bought and save 3-5k by spending a good few weeks to a month or so transferring the fit out then sell what's left.
Decisions decisions. Haha
landy said
09:42 PM Jul 9, 2020
Sounds like you have a good plan there hope it works out well for you.
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:14 PM Jul 9, 2020
At one stage in my MQ Patrol days, I followed the advice of many - to prevent rust, use fish oil.
Later I found this formed an acid & could cause more rust.
Lanoline spray was highly recommended some time later.
The RACQ chap who checked my last Nissan before the purchase said "It has been on a beach as there are lots of small rust points on the underneath but none were of concern." I cleaned the underneath, used about 1.5 cans of Lanoline on, in the car - no issues in the 7 years we had it. Gave it a top up occasionally.
tuggersbmx said
11:28 AM Jul 11, 2020
Hi again.
Now that I have this engine and gearbox on the way I want to put a new turbo on the engine and possibly upgrade it.
I've done my searching but cannot really find much about what turbo is on it from stock. K03/K04? I would think k03?
What are the options to upgrade? And does anyone have any links to the turbo? So I gain more knowledge.
Thanks
Mick
Aus-Kiwi said
10:09 AM Jul 16, 2020
MTQ for rebuilding high flowing turbo . This way you get a KNOWN turbo with warranty no cheap Chinese parts !! You WILL get better efficient pulling power by fitting larger exhaust . Look at intercooler . Its about air density ! Boost is a restriction of flow . I have fitted a High pressure meth/ water Injection kit on 6.5 GM as its not intercooled . Made a heap of difference . Noticed the glow plugs when replaced recently was very clean !! Put this down to water /meth injection . Meth is ethanol/ metholated spirits 20/80 water mix . Switched on from 6lb . In this case so mainly used on hills etc . Can be activated by throttle also .
STRETCH ARMSTRONG said
10:55 PM Jul 17, 2020
+1 for the meth water injection. I had a home made system on my last cruiser that l ran on veg oil for 15 years. Very good for a bit of punch under acceleration and for steam cleaning any carbon deposits.
nzmotorhome.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php
Hi
If you wished to replace your motor with a more powerful model Nissan did make 4 cylinder diesels in these model series shown below. Note the increasing power outputs. They would swap in more easily and bolt up almost the same as yours, and easier than fitting a 6 cyl from a Patrol. However you would have to get one that was imported from Japan most likely. If you search for Japanese parts/motor importers you will find them.
I believe the demand for these motors is lower than the Patrol 4,2 and they should be cheaper to buy. The busses were called Civilians and the light trucks were called Nissan Cabstars here but in Japan usually called Nissan Atlas. As you can see the following T on the number shows it has a turbo fitted.
Jaahn
Power output ranged from 84 HP (ED30 naturally aspirated) to 120 HP (ED33T turbocharged).
Power output ranged from 98 HP (FD33 naturally aspirated) to 133 HP (FD46 naturally aspirated). The FD35T is a turbocharged engine and produced 127 HP (95 kW).
Cost/Benefits ( Satisfaction going up hills)
ED33Turbo 120PS 90Kw 120HP.............. Purchase Cost............... Install..............
TD42 Turbocharged
145 PS (107 kW; 143 bhp) @ 4000 RPM. Purchase Cost............... Install..............
33.7 kgm (330 Nm; 244 lbft) @ 2000 RPM.
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Saturday 4th of July 2020 05:24:11 PM
Hmm
I am guessing that the OP might not be mechanically adept enough to do an engine swap himself. I could be wrong.
But if you have to pay by the hour for a decent mechanic to change a motor for you it will cost a lot if the motor is the same type and is a bastard of a job in a bus or any cab over engine vehicle.
But if you want to put a completely different motor in and have to make up the details as you go, like engine mounts, cooling system, fuel system, controls, cut the body, etc etc it takes forever. I have done it. So the hours add up at say $80? hr if you can find one for that, who has a workshop to do the job. . That was why I suggested the ED and FD motors as they are based on the same block outline and mountings all round as far as I know. Hmm Not only that the cost to buy a good six cyl 4.2 TD turbo will make your other options look much better ! IMHO.
So my suggestion is for the OP to get some prices for his options to buy motors and prices of fitting them to a usable driving standard. Then stare at these for a while over a stiff drink and see where this should go. Getting his own fitted with a turbo might look good. Good luck if he can do the other work himself at home ??
Cheers Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Saturday 4th of July 2020 08:41:29 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Saturday 4th of July 2020 08:58:43 PM
Looks like a bit of work here with a bit more than a weekend to do it all!
Your engine is a 4 cylinder, the Nissan TD42 a six - is there room?
My first 4.2L Patrol (a GQ) was naturally aspirated & was ok until I bought our Eagle. I thought I could do with more power & my brother-in-law suggested adding a turbo. I asked around & found, yes it was possible but an engine designed for a turbo would have different water/oil galleries to shunt the heat away safely. So at 230,000 kms, I added gas injection. It did all I wanted, cost a bit (did get a refund from the Govt) but I did another 60,000kms on it.
When we changed to the GU Patrol (at 271,000kms on the clock), I immediately added the gas injection. It performed better than the naturally aspirated engine & gave me excellent fuel economy.
Note - both engines were gas injected - Gas and diesel used at the same time with somewhere between 20 to 25% gas to diesel ratio. The car when I sold it last year had 454,000kms on it & was still performing well. My wife still questions why we had to change cars!
Unfortunately, Diesel-Gas Australia have closed down their operations & support so that's not viable any more.
I'd suggest changing the engine to a manufactured turbo if you have the coins - if the clutch & gearbox can take the extra power (or change the lot + the radiator). It might be cheaper to get something better suited - Jaahn has laid out the dramas!
Hi Mick
Lucky to find that engine as there were not many Cabstars in Australia with the turbo. I bought one years ago for the engine and was going to fit it in my Civilian but it is a bastard of a job and the rust beat me anyway so I sold the bus for parts and then the truck engine. BUT there were none of the other engine models sold officially in Australia so an importer would be your best place to ask.
AS for the price of fitting it, you would have to ask specifically how much and if a mechanic was actually interested in doing the job. I believe the FD33T will bolt in OK but there will be small details to change perhaps the clutch, and the engine lid need lifting a bit to clear. Minor job. Lifting the engines in and out is the major job as it will be done from underneath and it is VERY heavy. A hoist would be the best way but the bus may not fit in most smaller workshops on the hoist.
Good luck Jaahn
Hi Mick
What is important to know is First how does the engine come, fully complete engine or not, fitted or pickup or on a pallet freighted. Second what is the certifiable history and milage the engine has done. Thirdly what warranty does it have and who is offering the warranty, a business or private.
If you fit or pay to have fitted a motor and box and it is not good then it is a sh*t fight from there or if the motor seems OK but slowly gets bad you will not be happy or get another one ! So proceed carefully. They cost real money to buy, and I am not offering an opinion on here.
Good value is when it does what you want in the long run and is cheaper than other options. What are your other options ?
Jaahn
Hi MIck
That is good value and if it test drives OK then you have done very well.
I hope you get it together as you want and lots of good years out of it.
My tip would be to get the rust under control NOW and keep on top of it or it will rust away while you are not watching.
You need to get the rust controlled from the inside seams and crevices around the top before it is impossible to get to it.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 9th of July 2020 10:16:24 AM
Later I found this formed an acid & could cause more rust.
Lanoline spray was highly recommended some time later.
The RACQ chap who checked my last Nissan before the purchase said "It has been on a beach as there are lots of small rust points on the underneath but none were of concern." I cleaned the underneath, used about 1.5 cans of Lanoline on, in the car - no issues in the 7 years we had it. Gave it a top up occasionally.
+1 for the meth water injection. I had a home made system on my last cruiser that l ran on veg oil for 15 years. Very good for a bit of punch under acceleration and for steam cleaning any carbon deposits.
Stretch