gday, possibly plenty of permutations to this scenario but I have 2 house batteries, 130w solar panel and a spare Anderson plug for anything else. Question is if I want to stay off grid for a couple of days without panicking, can I get a small gennie and charge through the Anderson or do I get an inverter installed? Both costly so I want to make sure I make the right decisio.
Possum3 said
04:34 PM Jul 11, 2020
Use a generator - Utilise the normal 240V inlet on RH Side of caravan.
Whenarewethere said
04:54 PM Jul 11, 2020
If you are remote & you feel you can't charge up by running the car engine for 1/2 an hour & you don't want to buy more solar, which 130w for 2 batteries (assuming 100Ah each) is way too small (200w per 100Ah would be good).
Get a generator but buy a quality high capacity battery charger (something like a Victron Phoenix 12v 50amp charger). Don't use the modified sine wave output of the generator.
It really depends what you need to run when things get desperate after a few days. If it's fridge & one light just add some solar.
But going back to the beginning there is no need to panic if you know what all your loads are. It's simply a matter of calculating how many days you can go for, then put plan B into action, like running the car engine.
If you don't know the loads look up the specs for each product. They give a pretty good idea of power consumption.
You can buy a generator & plug it in but it is a poor solution & it will shorten the life of the batteries costing a lot more in the long run.
My fridge 12-15Ah per 24hours, cold weather 9.6Ah. So about 3 to 4 days to 50% discharge without solar or running the car engine.
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:21 PM Jul 11, 2020
What do you want to run?
Cheers,
Peter
Jaahn said
07:04 PM Jul 11, 2020
Davianni wrote:
gday, possibly plenty of permutations to this scenario but I have 2 house batteries, 130w solar panel and a spare Anderson plug for anything else. Question is if I want to stay off grid for a couple of days without panicking, can I get a small gennie and charge through the Anderson or do I get an inverter installed? Both costly so I want to make sure I make the right decisio.
Hi Davianni
Your question does not make sense or I do not understand it You ask should you buy a gennie to add more power or an inverter which will use more power ?? Sorry this does not compute
What you probably need is more solar really, or a gennie and a good charger, or a connection to the engine alternator to charge the batteries. Or possibly a combination of them. Read some of the other threads and search up above for ideas. All been discussed before.
Jaahn
travelyounger said
08:59 PM Jul 11, 2020
Hi
Your solar for two batteries might be a little light on for assuming they would be up to 120 amp each battery.
For charging your battery from a generator you would normally plug into your vans 240 inlet and let your AC/ DC charger charge batteries via a smart charger.
Don't go through an Anderson plug directly to battery with your generator or solar panel unless you have a regulator to stop overcharging.
Charging via your tow vehicle or motorhome to house battery depending on your vehicles alternator output /or run a DC/DC charger near house batteries via an Anderson plug from tow vehicle
Warren-Pat_01 said
09:06 PM Jul 11, 2020
Whenarewethere wrote:
Get a generator but buy a quality high capacity battery charger (something like a Victron Phoenix 12v 50amp charger). Don't use the modified sine wave output of the generator.
You can buy a generator & plug it in but it is a poor solution & it will shorten the life of the batteries costig a lot more in the long run.
Hey Jonathan,
You've stirred up some grey matter. You said generators have a modified since wave output - I thought they would have been full sine wave & I assume Possum thought the same too(?)
During the floods last February, the power in our suburb was turned off as a safety measure. Friends moved into our place as it was thought their's was going to have water in it (didn't). While they were in our house, they ran our generator to boil a jug, & ran our freezer (it was full - I knew it could go for 40 hrs without defrosting). However long story cut short, we found when we got home the freezer wasn't cutting out - a shot thermocouple was found. Had various "leccies" say why it happened - I think you have nailed it. Will check the output when we get home.
Sorry Davianni for a hijack.
travelyounger said
09:17 PM Jul 11, 2020
Having an inverter will only change 12 volt to 240 volt and using your battery storage would be only used for short periods using a pure sine wave inverter and would not have anything to do with charging your batteries unless you want to spend lots of $$$ and put in a combo enerdrive or redarc or similar system to charge your battery which also have dcdc charger which can run of the tow vehicle
Cheers
Whenarewethere said
09:25 PM Jul 11, 2020
Years ago a friend build some variable voltage output transformers for model trains. They had chopped sine wave. The transformer was brilliant for very slow speed train movement.
But I didn't use them long as the the sound out of the engines was simply horrible & I was pretty sure if keep using the transformers it would kill the motors.
You are just going to have to do your research thoroughly. But as other have said, what are you running. No point throwing good money in the wrong direction.
stoney123 said
11:27 AM Jul 12, 2020
You need to upgrade your solar, i have 2 x 200 watt and next year will swap that for 2x500 watt.
Upgrade your batteries i have 2x160amp, i have a 1500 watt sine wave inverter i run engle, toaster,induction cooktop in firebans, sandwich toaster, lights charge phones, tablets and laptops.
Do not get a generator, you will be forever driving to get fuel. I run engel as a freezer and freeze coke bottle which i put in evakool. Esky as my fridge i can find a top camp spot and not have to go shopping for 2 weeks.
Generators are a bit like coal.
Mike Harding said
12:31 PM Jul 12, 2020
stoney123 wrote:
You need to upgrade your solar, i have 2 x 200 watt and next year will swap that for 2x500 watt. Upgrade your batteries i have 2x160amp, i have a 1500 watt sine wave inverter i run engle, toaster,induction cooktop in firebans, sandwich toaster, lights charge phones, tablets and laptops. Do not get a generator, you will be forever driving to get fuel. I run engel as a freezer and freeze coke bottle which i put in evakool. Esky as my fridge i can find a top camp spot and not have to go shopping for 2 weeks. Generators are a bit like coal.
Depends when and where you camp.
Join me in the forest on the bank of the Murray River for the next few weeks and your solar panels will not be worth a jot: sun too low for too little time and tree cover combined prevent solar panels working at more than about 20% of how they would fare on a Queensland beach. Generators, most certainly, have their place - horses for courses.
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:35 PM Jul 12, 2020
All this advice is a total waste of space when we still don't know what the bloke is trying to do.
Cheers,
Peter
Jaahn said
03:55 PM Jul 12, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
All this advice is a total waste of space when we still don't know what the bloke is trying to do. Cheers, Peter
Hey we like giving the good answers on here no matter what the question is !!
Jaahn
Whenarewethere said
04:25 PM Jul 12, 2020
This is a good thread, a variety of suggestions without being too technical. Food for thought as one could simply buy a generator but there are other options which probably are better.
There are so many variables including adding more weight to one's payload that one needs to balance up all the data to make the best educated decision.
blaze said
04:49 PM Jul 12, 2020
My thoughts on the original post are, he was asking about a common old type gennie oposed to an inverter gennie (late model like a 2.2 honda)
cheers
blaze
Warren-Pat_01 said
05:20 PM Jul 12, 2020
David - sent you a PM
jeepnudger said
12:42 AM Jul 13, 2020
Late reply, if you have solar panels you must have solar controller appropriate to size of S panel output to run solar into controller ,then output of controller goes to batteries and van wiring. Your power supply in van has battery charging capacity.
Generator will never go a miss need one of at least 2400 output to just give enough power, greater output on gen means u can run more appliances , plug generator into as said at beginning into connection you would use if plugging into town electricity, oh yes all new gens are inverter models a requirement.
Davianni said
10:00 AM Jul 13, 2020
Thanks Jeepnudger. Youre Right, I was looking at gennie/inverter to run 240v as I only lasted 2 days on 12v running TV, water pump, and bit of lighting, and my gauge went down to 12.2. I am also concerned about the noise from the gennie(and expense) if I find it really isnt any better than buying a portable power centre. What do you think?
-- Edited by Davianni on Monday 13th of July 2020 10:01:55 AM
Whenarewethere said
11:44 AM Jul 13, 2020
Since you are only running a TV, pump & a bit of lighting you have a problem.
You should be able to go about a week on two batteries to 50% depletion.
markf said
11:48 AM Jul 13, 2020
Hi Davianni,
Please tell us what you are trying to accomplish then the replies will be a.) easier to follow and b.) more relevant.
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:52 AM Jul 13, 2020
Spend the same dollars a generator would cost on a solar set up and it will weigh less, cost nothing to run, won't upset any one, be able to be used EVERY where and every day and last 25 years. And you won't need any dangerous fuel to refill it with.
EDIT: And your batteries will last much longer because they will get topped up properly on most days.
EDIT 2: A "portable power centre" is just an expensive battery with some plugs and gauges. It still needs a power source to charge it properly and regularly.
Cheers, Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Monday 13th of July 2020 11:57:05 AM
Davianni said
12:00 PM Jul 13, 2020
Quite simply, I want to stay off grid comfortably for at least 4 days! Fridge is on gas, led lighting, TV, water heating& pump, recharge laptop and phones. All cooking on Bbq, so I cant understand why as this is a new moho that hasnt been on a serious run yet!
Whenarewethere said
12:44 PM Jul 13, 2020
What is the consumption of the TV?
What LED lighting are you running?
What AH are each of the 2 batteries?
A bit more solar would fix the problem, but you do have a problem currently with the little you are running which needs to solved otherwise it will be expensive & pointless bandaids you will be adding.
Peter_n_Margaret said
01:21 PM Jul 13, 2020
How are you currently charging your batteries and what type of batteries are they?
And tell us abut the current solar panel and solar charger.
What are the dimensions of the panel and what is the brand and model of solar controller and where is it mounted?
Cheers,
Peter
Mike Harding said
02:00 PM Jul 13, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
be able to be used EVERY where and every day
No it won't.
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:19 PM Jul 13, 2020
Even when it is raining, some solar power will be collected. That is why you should install as much as possible.
The OP says his battery was down to 12.2V after 2 days. That is not a problem. More solar would provide some "safety".
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
02:33 PM Jul 13, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Even when it is raining, some solar power will be collected.
My little setup with panels in series, the MPPT squeezes something out of inclement weather.
Even if your solar is not producing much at least you will be going backwards slower & on the odd occasion you get 3 days of continuous rain, turn the car engine on & charge up the batteries a bit.
Izabarack said
05:38 PM Jul 14, 2020
Davianni wrote:
. or do I get an inverter installed?
What or how do you want to use the inverter for?
Rule of thumb of the ratio of solar to battery bank Amp Hours is twice the Watts in solar to the AH of the battery bank. A portable panel is a good arrangement to have because you can park in the shade and put the panel in the sun.
Iza
Jaahn said
06:16 PM Jul 14, 2020
Davianni wrote:
Thanks Jeepnudger. Youre Right, I was looking at gennie/inverter to run 240v as I only lasted 2 days on 12v running TV, water pump, and bit of lighting, and my gauge went down to 12.2. I am also concerned about the noise from the gennie(and expense) if I find it really isnt any better than buying a portable power centre. What do you think?
-- Edited by Davianni on Monday 13th of July 2020 10:01:55 AM
i David
We can last forever using a 12V fridge and all the others you have, with 190W if the sun is shining. So my suggestion would be to check that your solar is actually working well. Most people get a multi meter to check the voltages for a check. Would you be able to handle that, or have a friend that can.
There are obvious things you should do in a small system. EG charge your phones and stuff when the sun is shining. Do not park under trees, be aware that some shadow on the solar panel will reduce the output to almost nothing even if it looks small. Check the battery connections are clean and shiny etc. What is the solar regulator and where is it located in relation to the battery. The size of the solar wiring.
A portable power center is just an expensive battery pack as Peter said. It does not make any more power. More solar will make power.
Jaahn
oldtrack123 said
11:56 PM Jul 18, 2020
Possum3 wrote:
Use a generator - Utilise the normal 240V inlet on RH Side of caravan.
Always remember that the van RCD"safety Switch' gives no protection against electric shocks to earth with a generator or inverter used that way!
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 18th of July 2020 11:58:35 PM
gday, possibly plenty of permutations to this scenario but I have 2 house batteries, 130w solar panel and a spare Anderson plug for anything else. Question is if I want to stay off grid for a couple of days without panicking, can I get a small gennie and charge through the Anderson or do I get an inverter installed? Both costly so I want to make sure I make the right decisio.
If you are remote & you feel you can't charge up by running the car engine for 1/2 an hour & you don't want to buy more solar, which 130w for 2 batteries (assuming 100Ah each) is way too small (200w per 100Ah would be good).
Get a generator but buy a quality high capacity battery charger (something like a Victron Phoenix 12v 50amp charger). Don't use the modified sine wave output of the generator.
It really depends what you need to run when things get desperate after a few days. If it's fridge & one light just add some solar.
But going back to the beginning there is no need to panic if you know what all your loads are. It's simply a matter of calculating how many days you can go for, then put plan B into action, like running the car engine.
If you don't know the loads look up the specs for each product. They give a pretty good idea of power consumption.
You can buy a generator & plug it in but it is a poor solution & it will shorten the life of the batteries costing a lot more in the long run.
My fridge 12-15Ah per 24hours, cold weather 9.6Ah. So about 3 to 4 days to 50% discharge without solar or running the car engine.
Cheers,
Peter
Hi Davianni
Your question does not make sense or I do not understand it
You ask should you buy a gennie to add more power or an inverter which will use more power ?? Sorry this does not compute 
What you probably need is more solar really, or a gennie and a good charger, or a connection to the engine alternator to charge the batteries. Or possibly a combination of them. Read some of the other threads and search up above for ideas. All been discussed before.
Jaahn
Get a generator but buy a quality high capacity battery charger (something like a Victron Phoenix 12v 50amp charger). Don't use the modified sine wave output of the generator.
You can buy a generator & plug it in but it is a poor solution & it will shorten the life of the batteries costig a lot more in the long run.
Hey Jonathan,
You've stirred up some grey matter. You said generators have a modified since wave output - I thought they would have been full sine wave & I assume Possum thought the same too(?)
During the floods last February, the power in our suburb was turned off as a safety measure. Friends moved into our place as it was thought their's was going to have water in it (didn't). While they were in our house, they ran our generator to boil a jug, & ran our freezer (it was full - I knew it could go for 40 hrs without defrosting). However long story cut short, we found when we got home the freezer wasn't cutting out - a shot thermocouple was found. Had various "leccies" say why it happened - I think you have nailed it. Will check the output when we get home.
Sorry Davianni for a hijack.
Years ago a friend build some variable voltage output transformers for model trains. They had chopped sine wave. The transformer was brilliant for very slow speed train movement.
But I didn't use them long as the the sound out of the engines was simply horrible & I was pretty sure if keep using the transformers it would kill the motors.
You are just going to have to do your research thoroughly. But as other have said, what are you running. No point throwing good money in the wrong direction.
Depends when and where you camp.
Join me in the forest on the bank of the Murray River for the next few weeks and your solar panels will not be worth a jot: sun too low for too little time and tree cover combined prevent solar panels working at more than about 20% of how they would fare on a Queensland beach. Generators, most certainly, have their place - horses for courses.
Cheers,
Peter
Hey we like giving the good answers on here no matter what the question is !!
Jaahn
This is a good thread, a variety of suggestions without being too technical. Food for thought as one could simply buy a generator but there are other options which probably are better.
There are so many variables including adding more weight to one's payload that one needs to balance up all the data to make the best educated decision.
cheers
blaze
Generator will never go a miss need one of at least 2400 output to just give enough power, greater output on gen means u can run more appliances , plug generator into as said at beginning into connection you would use if plugging into town electricity, oh yes all new gens are inverter models a requirement.
Thanks Jeepnudger. Youre Right, I was looking at gennie/inverter to run 240v as I only lasted 2 days on 12v running TV, water pump, and bit of lighting, and my gauge went down to 12.2. I am also concerned about the noise from the gennie(and expense) if I find it really isnt any better than buying a portable power centre. What do you think?
-- Edited by Davianni on Monday 13th of July 2020 10:01:55 AM
Since you are only running a TV, pump & a bit of lighting you have a problem.
You should be able to go about a week on two batteries to 50% depletion.
Hi Davianni,
Please tell us what you are trying to accomplish then the replies will be a.) easier to follow and b.) more relevant.
Spend the same dollars a generator would cost on a solar set up and it will weigh less, cost nothing to run, won't upset any one, be able to be used EVERY where and every day and last 25 years. And you won't need any dangerous fuel to refill it with.
EDIT: And your batteries will last much longer because they will get topped up properly on most days.
EDIT 2: A "portable power centre" is just an expensive battery with some plugs and gauges. It still needs a power source to charge it properly and regularly.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Monday 13th of July 2020 11:57:05 AM
Quite simply, I want to stay off grid comfortably for at least 4 days! Fridge is on gas, led lighting, TV, water heating& pump, recharge laptop and phones. All cooking on Bbq, so I cant understand why as this is a new moho that hasnt been on a serious run yet!
What is the consumption of the TV?
What LED lighting are you running?
What AH are each of the 2 batteries?
A bit more solar would fix the problem, but you do have a problem currently with the little you are running which needs to solved otherwise it will be expensive & pointless bandaids you will be adding.
And tell us abut the current solar panel and solar charger.
What are the dimensions of the panel and what is the brand and model of solar controller and where is it mounted?
Cheers,
Peter
No it won't.
The OP says his battery was down to 12.2V after 2 days. That is not a problem. More solar would provide some "safety".
Cheers,
Peter
My little setup with panels in series, the MPPT squeezes something out of inclement weather.
Even if your solar is not producing much at least you will be going backwards slower & on the odd occasion you get 3 days of continuous rain, turn the car engine on & charge up the batteries a bit.
What or how do you want to use the inverter for?
Rule of thumb of the ratio of solar to battery bank Amp Hours is twice the Watts in solar to the AH of the battery bank. A portable panel is a good arrangement to have because you can park in the shade and put the panel in the sun.
Iza
i David
We can last forever using a 12V fridge and all the others you have, with 190W if the sun is shining. So my suggestion would be to check that your solar is actually working well. Most people get a multi meter to check the voltages for a check. Would you be able to handle that, or have a friend that can.
There are obvious things you should do in a small system. EG charge your phones and stuff when the sun is shining. Do not park under trees, be aware that some shadow on the solar panel will reduce the output to almost nothing even if it looks small. Check the battery connections are clean and shiny etc. What is the solar regulator and where is it located in relation to the battery. The size of the solar wiring.
A portable power center is just an expensive battery pack as Peter said. It does not make any more power. More solar will make power.
Jaahn
Always remember that the van RCD"safety Switch' gives no protection against electric shocks to earth with a generator or inverter used that way!
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 18th of July 2020 11:58:35 PM