Hi Everyone. I want to attach aluminium awning track over the fridge side of my hiace campervan. My question is....can I use pop rivets, or should i use screws, do I glue it as well and how far apart should I drill holes for the pop rivets/screws. Should I put silicon on the drilled holes in the van. I tried you tube but they were conflicting in their advice. Thanks in advance. Keep safe everyone
outlaw40 said
03:52 PM Aug 7, 2020
conflicting advice will not be in short supply here either .
Linzeelou said
04:01 PM Aug 7, 2020
Yes but I trust you guys a bit more
Tony Bev said
04:19 PM Aug 7, 2020
Hi Linzeelou
I recently fitted an aluminium sail (awning) track, on the side of my motorhome, in my Avatar, to fit shadecloth
Approximately 5 metres in length, but the sides of the motorhome are fibreglass, so I used screws about half a metre apart
If I was putting a sail track on the side of a steel campervan, I would use aluminium blind rivets (to stop rain/moisture going through the rivet)
If your awning was canvas, and you wanted a rain proof area to sit under, I would put silicon under the sail track
If I was using shadecloth, I would just put a dab of silicon under the rivet
Below is a pic, of what I mean by blind rivets, the pic is from a Bunnings website, (which I prefer to use), but any reputable hardware store will probably stock them
If you look at a blind and normal rivet, you will see the difference, as a normal or open rivet, will allow moisture/rain through, and will need a dab of silicon, on the outside
Hope that this helps you to decide what to do, as there are many ways to fit a sail track
outlaw40 said
04:22 PM Aug 7, 2020
No worries Lynne just a bit of tongue in cheek from me . as for your sail track if it was me i would use Sikaflex®-11 FC to glue it on .you will need to provide a gap between the sail track and the camper wall so you get the correct thickness of adhesive i find the double sided mounting tape good for this as it stick and holds the track in place while the adhesive goes off . wouldn't personally worry about screws but if you want to you would then put a dab of sealer on the screws just to be sure .
Linzeelou said
04:30 PM Aug 7, 2020
Thank you. I feel more confident to go ahead and do it now.
Peter_n_Margaret said
04:41 PM Aug 7, 2020
outlaw40 wrote:
No worries Lynne just a bit of tongue in cheek from me . as for your sail track if it was me i would use Sikaflex®-11 FC to glue it on .you will need to provide a gap between the sail track and the camper wall so you get the correct thickness of adhesive i find the double sided mounting tape good for this as it stick and holds the track in place while the adhesive goes off . wouldn't personally worry about screws but if you want to you would then put a dab of sealer on the screws just to be sure .
Ditto. 11FC, double sided tape. no screws, 16 years and still there.
Down one side and across the back. Cyclone proof. :)
Pop rivets if used with correct size drilled holes would be waterproof - Although I would run a bead of sealant under the track to prevent water entrapment and a starting point for corrosion.
Bonded track could come "Unstuck" if a gust of wind caused a sharp tug on the awning.
outlaw40 said
05:03 PM Aug 7, 2020
guarantee the Sikaflex -11 FC is their long after the pop rivets have pulled out .
Whenarewethere said
05:11 PM Aug 7, 2020
I would pop rivet & glue. Rivets to stop it starting to peel off & glue it so you have as much surface area as possible.
Adding pop rivets are a liability. They produce a high stress point and the potential for a leak. They are simply NOT needed for this application.
Cheers,
Peter
Mobi Condo said
10:09 AM Aug 8, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Adding pop rivets are a liability. They produce a high stress point and the potential for a leak. They are simply NOT needed for this application. Cheers, Peter
x2. In fact we have an offside shade rope rail full length along the 19ft van. Simply set up with masking tape each 300mm and loaded the surface of the rail with a bead of Sikaflex white and set it up in place with tape doing the temporary hold until Sikaflex set. This rail has been there for 13 years now and is strong as an ox so to speak.
Cheers - Ian
Aus-Kiwi said
01:41 PM Aug 8, 2020
Mine was fitted with Siko and stainless self rappers into frame . The support brackets between are only Sikoflexed. Middle supports are only used for windy conditions . The main supports have 150 X 150 x 2mm alloy To spread siko area .
Mamil said
07:16 PM Aug 8, 2020
Agree with Peter that Sika is all you need in this application. Pop rivets or screws are over the top in my view and perforate the skin of your van unnecessarily, leaving you open to the potential of stress cracks and water penetration down the line. Having had a nightmare removing ally chequer plate that was Sika's to the side of my van I can tell you it gives all the grip you need if properly applied and the surface properly prepared!
-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 8th of August 2020 07:18:03 PM
Gus1949 said
04:28 PM Aug 12, 2020
Agree with Outlaw 40 for your application, quick and simple. don't over complication a simple job.
Aus-Kiwi said
10:39 AM Aug 13, 2020
Umm if using BOTH screws and siko . Which btw is more along the lines of what transport authority engineer would want for approval. If mechanical attachment fails ? So does the Sikoflex!! I agree with drilling or too many screws in one area. Why at the ends mine has alloy plate to spread the load , increasing the glued area . Trust me Ive been involved with work accident over these type of failures !! You dont want to be under investigation!!
Peter_n_Margaret said
01:15 PM Aug 13, 2020
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Umm if using BOTH screws and siko . Which btw is more along the lines of what transport authority engineer would want for approval. ......
Absolutely not so.
The body of our OKA motorhome is totally held together with Sikaflex (252 and 11FC, depending on the specific application).
It is FULLY approved by a transport authority engineer and there has NEVER been a glue joint failure in 16 years.
Most modern bus bodies are held together with just Sikaflex (and other brands of adhesive) as are many modern aircraft. No screws and no pop or other rivets or other mechanical fasteners.
Cheers,
Peter
jade46 said
01:39 PM Aug 13, 2020
Have to agree with Peter. Done a tour of the Boeing factory in Seattle and a huge amount of the 777-300 was glued together. The floor for example is like steel wool between 2 layers of alloy so no welding or compression rivets just glue. Good enough for Boeing
-- Edited by jade46 on Thursday 13th of August 2020 01:40:22 PM
Izabarack said
02:46 PM Aug 14, 2020
Silicon tiles on the Space Shuttle are glued on. Been there, done that.
I have used Sika 291 several times on different vehicles to attach Sail Track. 15 year old examples are still going well. I have an aversion to drilling holes if not necessary. A problem for vertical surfaces it getting the track to stay in place while the glue goes off. My solution has been to hot glue wood blocks above and below where the track is to end up. Allows me to screw a clamp across the track. Bottom blocks should be one exact block size below the track position. An unglued block (is 'unglued' a word?) is then put above the fixed block so the track can rest on that block while the track is glue in position. Hot glue releases with Isopropyl Alcohol. Test first, of course, on a similar surface to the one you want to work on.
Iza
Aus-Kiwi said
03:02 PM Aug 14, 2020
Yes but IS the awning approved to be attached with glue only . The original brackets on my awning is a very small area . What does the awning manufacturer recommend? Plane , car bodies have large contact surface area designed in such a way the stress area is not around join or glued area . Some early planes cracked around windows for example till sorted . Not just fault of glueing though . Design as well .
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:21 PM Aug 14, 2020
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Yes but IS the awning approved to be attached with glue only . The original brackets on my awning is a very small area . What does the awning manufacturer recommend? Plane , car bodies have large contact surface area designed in such a way the stress area is not around join or glued area . Some early planes cracked around windows for example till sorted . Not just fault of glueing though . Design as well .
"Sail track", not "awning" is the subject.
The Comet failed from metal fatigue which is typically worse if stresses are concentrated via fasteners.
Gluing spreads loads over a large area by default so the likelihood of stress concentration is very much lower and design is simpler. Effective monocoque is easier to achieve.
Cheers,
Peter
Aus-Kiwi said
10:24 PM Aug 14, 2020
Yes thats what Im saying some may take you can just glue or just screw fittings on either way its a job needs the done properly . So many variations on van construction also .
Hi Linzeelou
I recently fitted an aluminium sail (awning) track, on the side of my motorhome, in my Avatar, to fit shadecloth
Approximately 5 metres in length, but the sides of the motorhome are fibreglass, so I used screws about half a metre apart
If I was putting a sail track on the side of a steel campervan, I would use aluminium blind rivets (to stop rain/moisture going through the rivet)
If your awning was canvas, and you wanted a rain proof area to sit under, I would put silicon under the sail track
If I was using shadecloth, I would just put a dab of silicon under the rivet
Below is a pic, of what I mean by blind rivets, the pic is from a Bunnings website, (which I prefer to use), but any reputable hardware store will probably stock them
If you look at a blind and normal rivet, you will see the difference, as a normal or open rivet, will allow moisture/rain through, and will need a dab of silicon, on the outside
Hope that this helps you to decide what to do, as there are many ways to fit a sail track
Ditto. 11FC, double sided tape. no screws, 16 years and still there.
Down one side and across the back. Cyclone proof. :)
Cheers,
Peter
Bonded track could come "Unstuck" if a gust of wind caused a sharp tug on the awning.
I would pop rivet & glue. Rivets to stop it starting to peel off & glue it so you have as much surface area as possible.
& use a properly manufactured pop rivet gun!
Cheers,
Peter
x2. In fact we have an offside shade rope rail full length along the 19ft van. Simply set up with masking tape each 300mm and loaded the surface of the rail with a bead of Sikaflex white and set it up in place with tape doing the temporary hold until Sikaflex set. This rail has been there for 13 years now and is strong as an ox so to speak.
Cheers - Ian
Agree with Peter that Sika is all you need in this application. Pop rivets or screws are over the top in my view and perforate the skin of your van unnecessarily, leaving you open to the potential of stress cracks and water penetration down the line. Having had a nightmare removing ally chequer plate that was Sika's to the side of my van I can tell you it gives all the grip you need if properly applied and the surface properly prepared!
-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 8th of August 2020 07:18:03 PM
Absolutely not so.
The body of our OKA motorhome is totally held together with Sikaflex (252 and 11FC, depending on the specific application).
It is FULLY approved by a transport authority engineer and there has NEVER been a glue joint failure in 16 years.
Most modern bus bodies are held together with just Sikaflex (and other brands of adhesive) as are many modern aircraft. No screws and no pop or other rivets or other mechanical fasteners.
Cheers,
Peter
Have to agree with Peter. Done a tour of the Boeing factory in Seattle and a huge amount of the 777-300 was glued together. The floor for example is like steel wool between 2 layers of alloy so no welding or compression rivets just glue. Good enough for Boeing
-- Edited by jade46 on Thursday 13th of August 2020 01:40:22 PM
I have used Sika 291 several times on different vehicles to attach Sail Track. 15 year old examples are still going well. I have an aversion to drilling holes if not necessary. A problem for vertical surfaces it getting the track to stay in place while the glue goes off. My solution has been to hot glue wood blocks above and below where the track is to end up. Allows me to screw a clamp across the track. Bottom blocks should be one exact block size below the track position. An unglued block (is 'unglued' a word?) is then put above the fixed block so the track can rest on that block while the track is glue in position. Hot glue releases with Isopropyl Alcohol. Test first, of course, on a similar surface to the one you want to work on.
Iza
"Sail track", not "awning" is the subject.
The Comet failed from metal fatigue which is typically worse if stresses are concentrated via fasteners.
Gluing spreads loads over a large area by default so the likelihood of stress concentration is very much lower and design is simpler. Effective monocoque is easier to achieve.
Cheers,
Peter