Looking for a tug with a higher GCM, i.e. 70 series land Cruiser.
iana said
10:23 AM Sep 26, 2020
I have a ute with a GCM of 6000kg, and need more. The 70 series Land Cruiser ute could fit the bill. Maybe getting a cab chassis at the auctions, has anyone any experience with these. I heard on the grape vine that Toyota are to stop making them, as they can't meet the new crash impact regulations, is that true?
What are they like to tow with, is the fuel consumption OK?
I have a ute with a GCM of 6000kg, and need more. The 70 series Land Cruiser ute could fit the bill. Maybe getting a cab chassis at the auctions, has anyone any experience with these. I heard on the grape vine that Toyota are to stop making them, as they can't meet the new crash impact regulations, is that true?
What are they like to tow with, is the fuel consumption OK?
Ian,I have one,and love it.The ride is a bit rough,but that doesn't bother me.Easily tows 3500kg ATM van all day long,up hill and down dale,returning just over 15mpg (about 5.5km/ltr) running at 6800kg GCM,all legal.Brakes are a bit of a weak point,but I easily remedied that by fitting a twin diaphragm booster.You also can fit braided lines if you wish.A diesel tuner in Brisbane easily got power up to 150kw at the wheels,with 650nm torque.Fuel tanks hold 180 litres,(40 gallons) so range can get close to 1000kms towing! So that I could minimise the chances of injector damage from contaminated fuel "in the bush" I fitted another fuel filter BEFORE the factory filter,and I have also fitted an air compressor behind passenger's seat,with the airtank under the tray.The big advantage these cars have is their rear axle rating of 2300kg ex-factory.If you can supply your van's ATM etc I am happy to do some figures for you,but the 79 is an amazing vehicle.For the enjoyment of another forum member,I will iterate that "Nothing compares or competes!" Cheers
Whenarewethere said
12:08 PM Sep 26, 2020
Carbuilders have a video for acoustic insulation. I have stuffed it everywhere in my Land Rover & it's the best improvement you can make. About 80 hours work, a second time around I could do it in 40 hours.... I have stuffed it in everywhere!
I would put in a lot more foam, at the very least double up thickness, basically fill all gaps.
https://www.carbuilders.com.au/troopy-packs
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Saturday 26th of September 2020 02:14:42 PM
iana said
02:05 PM Sep 26, 2020
Thankyou for the replies and messages so far, from my threads you can see I am exploring various avenues with the towing vehicle, or replacing our van. With the land-cruiser (which I owned two in Papua New Guinea, but no towing and petrol didn't matter) I am thinking of the 70 series crew cab, and fitting our Boston canopy direct onto the chassis rails, i.e. no tray, maybe a little tray at the back for firewood etc. Our BT50 tows well, but I cannot think about such things as extra solar panels etc., without exceeding the GCM.
So it is either down sizing the van, or upsizing the tug.
Incidentally the BT50 is longer than the Land Cruiser, not by much, looks can be deceiving.
yobarr said
02:40 PM Sep 26, 2020
iana wrote:
Thankyou for the replies and messages so far, from my threads you can see I am exploring various avenues with the towing vehicle, or replacing our van. With the land-cruiser (which I owned two in Papua New Guinea, but no towing and petrol didn't matter) I am thinking of the 70 series crew cab, and fitting our Boston canopy direct onto the chassis rails, i.e. no tray, maybe a little tray at the back for firewood etc. Our BT50 tows well, but I cannot think about such things as extra solar panels etc., without exceeding the GCM. So it is either down sizing the van, or upsizing the tug. Incidentally the BT50 is longer than the Land Cruiser, not by much, looks can be deceiving.
You are right about length,as BT50 is 6" longer than the 79,and has 3220mm wheelbase,compared with 3180mm for the Landcruiser.However,the Landcruiser's rear axle is rated at 2300kg,a huge 450kg more than the Mazda,although,the BT50's kerb weight is around 200kg less than that of the 79 twin cab.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 26th of September 2020 02:42:33 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
03:09 PM Sep 26, 2020
Bite the bullet and get rid of the towing completely....
Canter on the left (GVM 4,495kg, GCM 7,995kg), OKA on the right (GVM 6,600kg, GCM 9,000kg).
We carry enough food and water to stay in the bush for a month. Everything is solar or diesel powered.
Or if you are a fisherman, you can tow a boat sometimes, if you want.
Yes that is correct, during out tourers, there were places we could see that we wanted to explore, but towing a caravan, or with a motorhome, you can't pull off the road until one finds a suitable pull over area. With the 4x4 truck its just a matter of pulling off the road and head to the site. I have looked at this idea, and spoken to a few owners.
Rob Driver said
04:36 PM Sep 26, 2020
iana wrote:
I have a ute with a GCM of 6000kg, and need more. The 70 series Land Cruiser ute could fit the bill. Maybe getting a cab chassis at the auctions, has anyone any experience with these. I heard on the grape vine that Toyota are to stop making them, as they can't meet the new crash impact regulations, is that true?
What are they like to tow with, is the fuel consumption OK?
Gday iana,
If it were me making that type of decision I would consider one of the new light trucks available at the moment.
For what you will pay for the overrated and uncomfortable Toyota ute second hand you could but a brand new light truck.
I saw an advert on TV just recently for a new Fuso Canter cab chassis for $39990.00
There are a variety of brands of light truck and there is good info on the net about them.
There there are many problems with the 70 series utes that some dont like to mention and personally I cant drive one for any distance due to the absolute lack of comfort.
The Toyota has different track measurement from front to rear and this is reported to cause instability when towing or when on loose surfaces. It can be fixed but at quite considerable cost. If you do look at them second hand be aware that wheel spacers to correct the track problem are illegal as is some other methods to correct the track on the rear axle.
If you decide on the Toyota make sure you drive one for some distance to assess wether you can tolerate the lack of comfort from the interior and the extremely rough ride.
The main disadvantage of a light truck is its size if compared to your current ute. Most of these new light trucks have an auto transmission option which is another point in favour of the manual only Toyota.
Good luck with your final choice.
Regards
Rob Driver
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 26th of September 2020 04:38:04 PM
llochris said
04:56 PM Sep 26, 2020
Go for a Iveco Twin cab You wont be Sorry WE have had ours from new 2004
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:39 PM Sep 26, 2020
On the other hand, the Toyota will go pretty much anywhere any vehicle can go, straight off the showroom floor, unlike the light trucks which need a lot of money spent on them first, IF you buy a 4WD one to start with.
Cheers,
Peter
yobarr said
08:23 PM Sep 26, 2020
iana wrote:
Yes that is correct, during out tourers, there were places we could see that we wanted to explore, but towing a caravan, or with a motorhome, you can't pull off the road until one finds a suitable pull over area. With the 4x4 truck its just a matter of pulling off the road and head to the site. I have looked at this idea, and spoken to a few owners.
Hi Ian...you are absolutely correct with your assertion that "...with a 4x4 truck it's just a matter of pulling off the road....",which is not remotely possible in a light truck unless you are happy to spend big bikkies and buy a 4wd to start with,as Peter attests.As I posted earlier,the 79 is not the most comfortable vehicle around,but after many years driving long distance interstate in Macks,Kenworths and Western Stars etc,I am not in the least concerned about that.Indeed,if I feel like it,I can comfortably cover 1000km in one day,in the 79.Some people like to draw attention to the fact that the rear track on a 79 is narrower than the front track,but they seem not to realise that the truth is that the rear track has not changed for many years,from 1460mm.... simply put,the front track has been increased to accomodate the width of the understressed V8 that resides under the bonnet.Simple physics would suggest that making the front track wider than that on earlier models would increase stability? The only time that the difference in track can be "interesting" is in sand etc,but the little V8 soon sorts that! And in the bush,the sound of the little V8 through twin 3 pipes is music to the ears! With your need to be able to carry more,the 79 fits the bill nicely,as carrying capacity is between 1100kg and 1200kg,depending on year of manufacture.The big advantage that the 79 has over other vehicles is the fact that the rear axle is rated at 2300kg ex factory. Even with expensive GVM upgrades,other vehicles do not come near this.Another major advantage is that,in the "bush" every man and his dog has one,so in the unlikely event that you need spares or experienced help with repairs,both are readily available.If you need answers to any questions,please feel free to ask.Cheers
yobarr said
08:35 PM Sep 26, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
On the other hand, the Toyota will go pretty much anywhere any vehicle can go, straight off the showroom floor, unlike the light trucks which need a lot of money spent on them first, IF you buy a 4WD one to start with. Cheers, Peter
Hi Peter n Margaret....the more I read of your adventures,and your OKA,the more I wonder if perhaps I should have built something similar.But then I console myself with the realisation that my plan is to travel for as long as I can drive,and that I like my creature comforts.But still I'm a little jealous! Cheers
iana said
08:52 PM Sep 26, 2020
s we say here all the time this tripping is a compromise, and we first must sort out the priorities. This is my first Land Cruiser, its a very early model, ventilation flap below the windscreen like the Land rover, It had hi-lo ratio on the dash operating an air shift, and 4 wheel drive was a lever on the dash. Petrol motor, three speed g/box. The body was about 4 inches longer than a short wheel base. It was either a 1965 or 1967 model. This model also had two sets of jets, which I changed over depending on whether we were driving in the low lands, or the highlands (7000-12000 feet up).
The second one was a short wheel base with an Isuzu 4 cyl. motor as standard from the factory. Both vehicles were used in Papua New Guinea.
On the other hand, the Toyota will go pretty much anywhere any vehicle can go, straight off the showroom floor, unlike the light trucks which need a lot of money spent on them first, IF you buy a 4WD one to start with. Cheers, Peter
I would like to know what modifications you have to do to the lightweight trucks which I asume is ranger dmax triton and navara utes .I have done a lot of 4 WD in stock utes and I reckon they would go anywhere a stock 70 or 79 would go.
I personally think they are a great vehicle but overpriced at 70,000 for no auto trans and an outdated interior and rough ride.
Cheers
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:58 PM Sep 26, 2020
travelyounger wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
On the other hand, the Toyota will go pretty much anywhere any vehicle can go, straight off the showroom floor, unlike the light trucks which need a lot of money spent on them first, IF you buy a 4WD one to start with. Cheers, Peter
I would like to know what modifications you have to do to the lightweight trucks which I asume is ranger dmax triton and navara utes .I have done a lot of 4 WD in stock utes and I reckon they would go anywhere a stock 70 or 79 would go.
I personally think they are a great vehicle but overpriced at 70,000 for no auto trans and an outdated interior and rough ride.
Cheers
"Light weight trucks" are vehicles with GVMs over 4.5T, by definition. They have much higher load capacity than the vehicles you mention.
They typically need super single wheels and tyres and parabolic springs to provide reasonable suspension travel and comfort.
Canters, MAN, NPS......
Cheers,
Peter
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:07 AM Sep 27, 2020
The Toyota is about the only choice if you wish to hire a 4WD camper in this country. Consider why that might be so....
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 27th of September 2020 08:18:47 AM
Radar said
02:16 PM Sep 27, 2020
iana wrote: 9th
I have a ute with a GCM of 6000kg, and need more. The 70 series Land Cruiser ute could fit the bill. Maybe getting a cab chassis at the auctions, has anyone any experience with these. I heard on the grape vine that Toyota are to stop making them, as they can't meet the new crash impact regulations, is that true?
What are they like to tow with, is the fuel consumption OK?
Make a big move and head for a real big car like a Ford 250, Dodge Ram, most blokes would be seriously envious.
I was recently talking with an owners wife, he wanted one and she no but after looking at there towing weights she said yes to a Dodge Ram. 2 hurried trips of late with 12 hour days, she said she will never argue again, awesome was her quote. She could not of done that in the previous Land cruiser.
yobarr said
03:45 PM Sep 27, 2020
Radar wrote:
iana wrote: 9th
I have a ute with a GCM of 6000kg, and need more. The 70 series Land Cruiser ute could fit the bill. Maybe getting a cab chassis at the auctions, has anyone any experience with these. I heard on the grape vine that Toyota are to stop making them, as they can't meet the new crash impact regulations, is that true?
What are they like to tow with, is the fuel consumption OK?
Make a big move and head for a real big car like a Ford 250, Dodge Ram, most blokes would be seriously envious.
I was recently talking with an owners wife, he wanted one and she no but after looking at there towing weights she said yes to a Dodge Ram. 2 hurried trips of late with 12 hour days, she said she will never argue again, awesome was her quote. She could not of done that in the previous Land cruiser.
Hi Ralph...the cars you mention certainly are appealing if you have plenty of gold,and are happy to drive a barge,with the associated problems in finding carparks etc. But don't even think about a Ram 1500 if you wish to safely tow more than 3000kg as a pig trailer.When we made the decision to set sail in our van ,never to return,I checked out all the Big Boys...Silverado, F250 (and 350),Dodge Ram etc etc,but, but finally I chose the good old 79...nothing compares or competes.Mind you,it certainly never will have the "Look at me" value of the Big Boys,but that suits me perfectly! Cheers
blaze said
04:48 PM Sep 27, 2020
I always said that it would always be a van and 4x4 for me. don't own either now but a Toyota coaster (not a Toyota fan), there isn't many spots I wouldn't try and put the coaster. got a bit of ground clearance and the weight well spaced. Weren't many 4x4 around when vehicles broke the back of travel in Australia
cheers
blaze
landy said
10:15 PM Sep 28, 2020
With your need to be able to carry more,the 79 fits the bill nicely,as carrying capacity is between 1100kg and 1200kg,depending on year of manufacture.The big advantage that the 79 has over other vehicles is the fact that the rear axle is rated at 2300kg ex factory. Even with expensive GVM upgrades,other vehicles do not come near this. Sorry Yobar but I think your drawing a bit of a long bow with that statement. My old 1999 Land Rover Defender would come fairly close to that. with a front axle weight of 1580. Rear Axle 2200....carrying capacity 1500 ..... GVM 3500....... towing weight 4000...... and a GCM of 7000. without any upgrades. my limiting factor is a 250 kg ball weight which I have never found a problem.
-- PM
-- Edited by landy on Monday 28th of September 2020 10:32:31 PM
I have a ute with a GCM of 6000kg, and need more. The 70 series Land Cruiser ute could fit the bill. Maybe getting a cab chassis at the auctions, has anyone any experience with these. I heard on the grape vine that Toyota are to stop making them, as they can't meet the new crash impact regulations, is that true?
What are they like to tow with, is the fuel consumption OK?
You're heading into light truck territory:
https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/details/2012-fuso-canter/SSE-AD-6725274/?Cr=56
Ian,I have one,and love it.The ride is a bit rough,but that doesn't bother me.Easily tows 3500kg ATM van all day long,up hill and down dale,returning just over 15mpg (about 5.5km/ltr) running at 6800kg GCM,all legal.Brakes are a bit of a weak point,but I easily remedied that by fitting a twin diaphragm booster.You also can fit braided lines if you wish.A diesel tuner in Brisbane easily got power up to 150kw at the wheels,with 650nm torque.Fuel tanks hold 180 litres,(40 gallons) so range can get close to 1000kms towing! So that I could minimise the chances of injector damage from contaminated fuel "in the bush" I fitted another fuel filter BEFORE the factory filter,and I have also fitted an air compressor behind passenger's seat,with the airtank under the tray.The big advantage these cars have is their rear axle rating of 2300kg ex-factory.If you can supply your van's ATM etc I am happy to do some figures for you,but the 79 is an amazing vehicle.For the enjoyment of another forum member,I will iterate that "Nothing compares or competes!" Cheers
Carbuilders have a video for acoustic insulation. I have stuffed it everywhere in my Land Rover & it's the best improvement you can make. About 80 hours work, a second time around I could do it in 40 hours.... I have stuffed it in everywhere!
I would put in a lot more foam, at the very least double up thickness, basically fill all gaps.
https://www.carbuilders.com.au/troopy-packs
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Saturday 26th of September 2020 02:14:42 PM
So it is either down sizing the van, or upsizing the tug.
Incidentally the BT50 is longer than the Land Cruiser, not by much, looks can be deceiving.
You are right about length,as BT50 is 6" longer than the 79,and has 3220mm wheelbase,compared with 3180mm for the Landcruiser.However,the Landcruiser's rear axle is rated at 2300kg,a huge 450kg more than the Mazda,although,the BT50's kerb weight is around 200kg less than that of the 79 twin cab.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 26th of September 2020 02:42:33 PM
Bite the bullet and get rid of the towing completely....
Canter on the left (GVM 4,495kg, GCM 7,995kg), OKA on the right (GVM 6,600kg, GCM 9,000kg).
We carry enough food and water to stay in the bush for a month. Everything is solar or diesel powered.
Or if you are a fisherman, you can tow a boat sometimes, if you want.
Cheers,
Peter
Gday iana,
If it were me making that type of decision I would consider one of the new light trucks available at the moment.
For what you will pay for the overrated and uncomfortable Toyota ute second hand you could but a brand new light truck.
I saw an advert on TV just recently for a new Fuso Canter cab chassis for $39990.00
There are a variety of brands of light truck and there is good info on the net about them.
There there are many problems with the 70 series utes that some dont like to mention and personally I cant drive one for any distance due to the absolute lack of comfort.
The Toyota has different track measurement from front to rear and this is reported to cause instability when towing or when on loose surfaces. It can be fixed but at quite considerable cost. If you do look at them second hand be aware that wheel spacers to correct the track problem are illegal as is some other methods to correct the track on the rear axle.
If you decide on the Toyota make sure you drive one for some distance to assess wether you can tolerate the lack of comfort from the interior and the extremely rough ride.
The main disadvantage of a light truck is its size if compared to your current ute. Most of these new light trucks have an auto transmission option which is another point in favour of the manual only Toyota.
Good luck with your final choice.
Regards
Rob Driver
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 26th of September 2020 04:38:04 PM
Cheers,
Peter
Hi Ian...you are absolutely correct with your assertion that "...with a 4x4 truck it's just a matter of pulling off the road....",which is not remotely possible in a light truck unless you are happy to spend big bikkies and buy a 4wd to start with,as Peter attests.As I posted earlier,the 79 is not the most comfortable vehicle around,but after many years driving long distance interstate in Macks,Kenworths and Western Stars etc,I am not in the least concerned about that.Indeed,if I feel like it,I can comfortably cover 1000km in one day,in the 79.Some people like to draw attention to the fact that the rear track on a 79 is narrower than the front track,but they seem not to realise that the truth is that the rear track has not changed for many years,from 1460mm.... simply put,the front track has been increased to accomodate the width of the understressed V8 that resides under the bonnet.Simple physics would suggest that making the front track wider than that on earlier models would increase stability? The only time that the difference in track can be "interesting" is in sand etc,but the little V8 soon sorts that! And in the bush,the sound of the little V8 through twin 3 pipes is music to the ears! With your need to be able to carry more,the 79 fits the bill nicely,as carrying capacity is between 1100kg and 1200kg,depending on year of manufacture.The big advantage that the 79 has over other vehicles is the fact that the rear axle is rated at 2300kg ex factory. Even with expensive GVM upgrades,other vehicles do not come near this.Another major advantage is that,in the "bush" every man and his dog has one,so in the unlikely event that you need spares or experienced help with repairs,both are readily available.If you need answers to any questions,please feel free to ask.Cheers
Hi Peter n Margaret....the more I read of your adventures,and your OKA,the more I wonder if perhaps I should have built something similar.But then I console myself with the realisation that my plan is to travel for as long as I can drive,and that I like my creature comforts.But still I'm a little jealous! Cheers
s we say here all the time this tripping is a compromise, and we first must sort out the priorities. This is my first Land Cruiser, its a very early model, ventilation flap below the windscreen like the Land rover, It had hi-lo ratio on the dash operating an air shift, and 4 wheel drive was a lever on the dash. Petrol motor, three speed g/box. The body was about 4 inches longer than a short wheel base. It was either a 1965 or 1967 model. This model also had two sets of jets, which I changed over depending on whether we were driving in the low lands, or the highlands (7000-12000 feet up).
The second one was a short wheel base with an Isuzu 4 cyl. motor as standard from the factory. Both vehicles were used in Papua New Guinea.
I would like to know what modifications you have to do to the lightweight trucks which I asume is ranger dmax triton and navara utes .I have done a lot of 4 WD in stock utes and I reckon they would go anywhere a stock 70 or 79 would go.
I personally think they are a great vehicle but overpriced at 70,000 for no auto trans and an outdated interior and rough ride.
Cheers
"Light weight trucks" are vehicles with GVMs over 4.5T, by definition. They have much higher load capacity than the vehicles you mention.
They typically need super single wheels and tyres and parabolic springs to provide reasonable suspension travel and comfort.
Canters, MAN, NPS......
Cheers,
Peter
The Toyota is about the only choice if you wish to hire a 4WD camper in this country.
Consider why that might be so....
Cheers,
Peter
There would be a few reasons why the Toyota troupy is used
A good quality 4 WD with no fancy interior features like carpet and leather seats easy to clean
Lots of spare parts available
Large cargo area for fit out and poptop with internal entry,no need to buy exspensive add on and heavy camper
980 kg payload which would more than likely would have upgraded suspension fitted to take all that extra weight
Long term rentals they have been around long time
Reliable 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder desiel engine with the HD 6 factory TD being my choice.
This vehicle would of been my choice but the boss did not like the noise from all the gear in back and uncomfortable ride
Cheers
Another option 4wd models available.
www.isuzu.com.au/truck-range/n-series/
< $54000.00 new price being currently advertised.
Many more modern accessories available fitted standard.
I watched an off road show yesterday and the Iveco 4wd also rated very highly. It was very impressive.
https://www.iveco.com.au/product/daily-4-x-4
Regards
Rob Driver
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 27th of September 2020 08:18:47 AM
Make a big move and head for a real big car like a Ford 250, Dodge Ram, most blokes would be seriously envious.
I was recently talking with an owners wife, he wanted one and she no but after looking at there towing weights she said yes to a Dodge Ram. 2 hurried trips of late with 12 hour days, she said she will never argue again, awesome was her quote. She could not of done that in the previous Land cruiser.
Hi Ralph...the cars you mention certainly are appealing if you have plenty of gold,and are happy to drive a barge,with the associated problems in finding carparks etc. But don't even think about a Ram 1500 if you wish to safely tow more than 3000kg as a pig trailer.When we made the decision to set sail in our van ,never to return,I checked out all the Big Boys...Silverado, F250 (and 350),Dodge Ram etc etc,but, but finally I chose the good old 79...nothing compares or competes.Mind you,it certainly never will have the "Look at me" value of the Big Boys,but that suits me perfectly! Cheers
cheers
blaze
Sorry Yobar but I think your drawing a bit of a long bow with that statement. My old 1999 Land Rover Defender would come fairly close to that. with a front axle weight of 1580.
Rear Axle 2200....carrying capacity 1500 ..... GVM 3500....... towing weight 4000...... and a GCM of 7000. without any upgrades. my limiting factor is a 250 kg ball weight which I have never found a problem.
-- PM
-- Edited by landy on Monday 28th of September 2020 10:32:31 PM