Setting up for mid 2021, van will be 22ft, tow will be Isuzu Dmax.
Will be mainly on seal, but also want to explore reasonable gravel/dirt tracks, is going 4wd over the top?
outlaw40 said
05:06 PM Nov 18, 2020
If you want 4x4 go for it BUT we have a van of similar size and my last 2 vehicles have been 2wd high rider bt50 and we have done many miles on roads like your suggesting with no problems .
dabbler said
05:15 PM Nov 18, 2020
There's are lot you may miss with 2x4 but there's still so much to see anyway. Most of us do a higher percentage of time on the seal. While I rarely use 4x4 to get to hard to get places, I do use it a lot for traction assistance on looser, unsealed roads. There have been a few places where pulling 1500kg, I needed 4wd to get out of campgrounds due to sharp inclines, loose surface or both. Look at the places you really want to explore and research what's recommended for access. That's why I chose the 4x4 path.
Mike Harding said
06:13 PM Nov 18, 2020
A good question.
For many years I have done a lot of *serious* 4WDing in the Victorian High Country with a tent or swag and in such places a 4WD with appropriate tyres, driver and recovery gear is essential.
Then I bought a caravan - and that was the end of serious 4WDing :)
However when I needed to upgrade my previous, ageing, 4WD earlier this year I bought another 4WD rather than a 2WD. There were two reasons I did this:
1 - I really like the additional manoeuvring flexibility which low range provides when trying to get the van into tight places.
2 - Even with the van I still go off-road a lot, more so than most I suspect, and I like the extra grip 4WD provides in poor conditions.
Do most caravanners need 4WD? No they do not in my opinion and it is certainly not required for gravel roads and similar; unless conditions are very poor I normally tow my 3T van in 2WD on such roads However, if you have a heavy van, you may find it is mainly the 4WDs which have the capacity to tow it.
outlaw40 said
07:40 PM Nov 18, 2020
2wd high rider bt50 IDENTICAL to the 4x4 minus front diff ,minus transfer case . same towing capacity 3500kg /350kg ball , approx 120 kg less tare weight and saved about $8000 on purchase price . made sense to me
TheHeaths said
08:47 PM Nov 18, 2020
David,
The others have covered the choice of 2wd or 4wd in their responses.
My comment would be this. You have made a couple of other posts where you suggest you are looking at a very large off-road van. I suggest you look at what they may weigh before sorting the vehicle too much. You may need to consider other than your choice as I suspect the all up weight of your van will be closer to 3.3 to 3.5 tonne when loaded.
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:26 PM Nov 18, 2020
Hi Barks51,
Look at tyres first. Light truck tyres are stronger than their conventional cousins (if they are available for the car you're looking at) - a good amount of tread, strong walled tyres will get you into most places in 2wd.
Is the D-Max to be a new car or 2nd hand? If the latter, you may pick up a reasonable 4wd for a reasonable price but have it checked out thoroughly.
The only real times that you will need 4wd is if you "HAVE" to traverse sand, rock or as in our case a few years ago when we were travelling on black soil & we had a very heavy shower of rain! An uncle in the 1970s (no, he didn't tow a van) had a Holden HD ute - it got him into Agate Creek almost as far as the 4wds & out again with his agate in the back.
travelyounger said
05:53 AM Nov 19, 2020
Barks51 wrote:
Setting up for mid 2021, van will be 22ft, tow will be Isuzu Dmax. Will be mainly on seal, but also want to explore reasonable gravel/dirt tracks, is going 4wd over the top?
You are definitely not overdoing it by paying the extra for 4wd there are so many times when travelling this big country that 4wd comes in handy and you will miss out on so much .I personally would not even think about 2wd towing that size van and if your serious about the dmax they are a great vehicle mine is a 2017 space cab with upgraded suspension and will safely and easily tow any van up to 3500 kg
cheers
Derek Barnes said
08:29 AM Nov 19, 2020
We recently went to the Flinders Ranges with our 4WD and off-road caravan. We stayed at Willow Springs and Weetootla Gorge National Park. Most of the main dirt roads to the Flinders were wide and good quality with only a fair amount of corrugations. These roads could easily be navigated with a 2WD. But our 4WD vehicle (Patrol Y62) and off-road coupling on the caravan were very useful for getting us into the camping areas, as we had to cross rocky dry creek beds and soft sandy patches to get to the camps.
We also drove a number of 4WD only tracks in the Flinders Ranges without the caravan.
Bicyclecamper said
08:54 AM Nov 19, 2020
When I went looking recently, for the newer car, after having 4wd's for 30 years, was looking for a 2wd wagon, as I am going back to a camper. When I bought my Suzuki, I thought it was just a 2wd, not really checking. Turns out it is just an AWD, but I definitely, didn't care if it was just a 2 wd, as in the last 5 years , everywhere we went Including offroad, we had not engaged 4wd, only to reverse van back at home up hill. So quite happy to go back to a 2wd anytime.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:49 AM Nov 19, 2020
We bought our first 4WD about 30 years ago. Australia immediately became 4 times the size in terms of where we could go and those new places were some of the best parts of the country and had many fewer people in them, especially tourists. Our travels now concentrate on those places, so it suits us that most people travel in caravans that can not go to those places or stick with 2WD that don't go there either.
Cheers,
Peter
iana said
10:47 AM Nov 19, 2020
Way back in my early years, we were living in Papua New Guinea, we were in the Highlands, and there hills are what we would call mountains, the roads were just clay tracks, I can remember driving over bridges, a tree trunk split in two and laid across the ravine. Any way we used to go on 4wd treks just to see who got through, Nissan against Toyota. Those days we all had "Free wheeling hubs".
After a strenuous drive though the mud and slush we'd arrive out, it was a laugh to see who had forgotten to engage their "Free wheeling hubs".
However when I was looking for a vehicle to tow ith, I was looking at 2wd, the wife said get 4wd, and I am glad I did. Used as above, but I also use H2 when I am stopped at wet intersections, or entering a highway from a gravel road, I don't want the rear wheels to spin at those critical moment, and I feel the extra front wheel traction a good safety measure.
littledick said
11:03 AM Nov 19, 2020
If you pulled a boat out of a ramp with a 2 wheel drive when damp, you may have a bit of slipping.
Same with a 2 wheel drive pulling a caravan from a standing start up hill.
One of my son in laws brought this to my attention when I was considering a 2 wheel drive Kluger.
Several cars since then all 4x4s or all wheel drive.
Dick.
DMaxer said
12:08 PM Nov 19, 2020
Just a quick sort of off topic question.
I have a 5 speed manual Isuzu. When starting on an incline with van attached is it harmful to the mechanical things to start off in 4wd on a tar surface?
iana said
02:22 PM Nov 19, 2020
My answer that Q is no if you are in H4, I do that often at lights, etc in the wet for instance, getting traction to all four tires, the damage is when you forget you are in 4wd and only discover many K's down the road.
erad said
03:10 PM Nov 19, 2020
I have 4WDs for over 25 years, and I have been to many places in this magnificent country. Typically, we tow our caravan to a place and then use that [lace as a base and explore out from the base. After a week or so, we move on to the next 'base'. We do use 4WD when exploring, but only occasionally. There have been places eg Ji Jim and Twin Falls in Kakadu, where most definitely you need 4WD. Our Pajero looked tiny in the carpark there beside all the lifted Nissans and Toyotas and an F250, but it got us there and back. On the way out, I could se where the engine bash plate had graded the track. Similarly we have been up Blue Rag in the Victorian High Country, and although you could probably get there in a high clearance 2WD, the security of 4WD and low range let us quietly walk the Pajero up and down the steep slopes with a lot ore confidence. In all my time with a 4WD, I have really only needed it maybe 10 times, and most of those times were for snow and icy roads which are common where we live. But a 4WD is as good as a 2WD when going down a steep, icy road. If the wheels lock up 4WD means nothing at all.
So, do you need a 4WD? Depending on your specific needs, I would say probably No. A solid, high clearance 2WD will get you 95% of the places that you are likely to want to go, and it will do the job more economically, with a better ride and less noise than a 4WD and it will be a lot cheaper to operate and maintain.
STRETCH ARMSTRONG said
03:58 PM Nov 19, 2020
I would also check the 2wd v's 4wd tow rating is the same for both vehicles.
Whenarewethere said
04:04 PM Nov 19, 2020
We don't tow. 99% of the sealed & unsealed roads we have been on the car is probably in 2wd. It changes to 4wd automatically. Sometimes I forget to turn off the stability control which will work against you on a wet slippeey dirt road.
When on loose surfaces the car will change to 4wd, in general I either have forgotten or haven't bothered changing is to the various soft ground settings.
But, it is those last few km to get to some nice place that having a 4wd is priceless. Somewhere like François Péron National Park where you have to drop tyres to 20psi, we could never have done in a 2wd.
Or when the rain just sets in & we are sliding all over the dirt road. It would have been impossible in a 2wd, let alone towing.
To me even if you do not use 4wd, I feel it is insurance for difficult situations. A bit like carrying 2 spare wheels & repair options.
The littke extra cost is a lot of peace of mind!
Warren-Pat_01 said
05:56 PM Nov 19, 2020
Just an added note Barks51, I bought my first 4wd in 1971 (an ex PMG 1967 Toyota Land Cruiser - my first & last Toyota). Since then I've had a 1980 Subaru Leone, three Nissan Patrols & now a D-Max.
I haven't regretted having a 4wd at all, it's been an advantage mostly for the reasons given above.
Which way you go is up to you, your finances & where you "might" want to go.
It's a pity they don't make the old rear engined VW Kombi anymore. No they couldn't tow a van but they could go to most places that 4wds went.
yobarr said
06:34 PM Nov 19, 2020
Barks51 wrote:
Setting up for mid 2021, van will be 22ft, tow will be Isuzu Dmax. Will be mainly on seal, but also want to explore reasonable gravel/dirt tracks, is going 4wd over the top?
Hi David...I suspect that,deep down,you know that you really should buy a 4wd,but that you are maybe hoping to save a few miserable dollars? Do it once,do it well.Go 4wd now. How would you feel if you were stuck off road somewhere,in the back of beyond, unable to get out because you'd bought a 2wd vehicle? I think that is unlikely you'd be thinking "Derr,at least I saved $2000".Do it once,do it well.Cheers
landy said
09:44 PM Nov 19, 2020
If you do in the end choose to go 2WD consider having a limited slip diff or maybe something like a Detroit locker fitted to the rear axle which will give you a lot more traction if things get rough or slippery. 95% percent of the time most of us do not need 4WD but when your camped on a black soil river bank and the rain starts pouring down I for one am very glad I have it. Landy
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:42 PM Nov 19, 2020
Just a final note Barks51 - if you get bogged in a 4wd, you could be BOGGED!
That means you've gone in further than your sense tells you otherwise. You could need recovery gear - shovel, snatch-um-strap, winch (of some description) & possibly another vehicle!
And if you do go down the path of getting a 4wd & it has manual free-wheeling hubs - DON'T FORGET TO LOCK THEM IN before you go 4wd-ing. You often see vehicles spinning their back wheels on a beach, slowly burying the rear & the front wheels are stationary! The drivers tend to be a bit embarrassed when you suggest the FWHs should be locked in!
A good question.
For many years I have done a lot of *serious* 4WDing in the Victorian High Country with a tent or swag and in such places a 4WD with appropriate tyres, driver and recovery gear is essential.
Then I bought a caravan - and that was the end of serious 4WDing :)
However when I needed to upgrade my previous, ageing, 4WD earlier this year I bought another 4WD rather than a 2WD. There were two reasons I did this:
1 - I really like the additional manoeuvring flexibility which low range provides when trying to get the van into tight places.
2 - Even with the van I still go off-road a lot, more so than most I suspect, and I like the extra grip 4WD provides in poor conditions.
Do most caravanners need 4WD? No they do not in my opinion and it is certainly not required for gravel roads and similar; unless conditions are very poor I normally tow my 3T van in 2WD on such roads However, if you have a heavy van, you may find it is mainly the 4WDs which have the capacity to tow it.
The others have covered the choice of 2wd or 4wd in their responses.
My comment would be this. You have made a couple of other posts where you suggest you are looking at a very large off-road van. I suggest you look at what they may weigh before sorting the vehicle too much. You may need to consider other than your choice as I suspect the all up weight of your van will be closer to 3.3 to 3.5 tonne when loaded.
Look at tyres first. Light truck tyres are stronger than their conventional cousins (if they are available for the car you're looking at) - a good amount of tread, strong walled tyres will get you into most places in 2wd.
Is the D-Max to be a new car or 2nd hand? If the latter, you may pick up a reasonable 4wd for a reasonable price but have it checked out thoroughly.
The only real times that you will need 4wd is if you "HAVE" to traverse sand, rock or as in our case a few years ago when we were travelling on black soil & we had a very heavy shower of rain! An uncle in the 1970s (no, he didn't tow a van) had a Holden HD ute - it got him into Agate Creek almost as far as the 4wds & out again with his agate in the back.
You are definitely not overdoing it by paying the extra for 4wd there are so many times when travelling this big country that 4wd comes in handy and you will miss out on so much .I personally would not even think about 2wd towing that size van and if your serious about the dmax they are a great vehicle mine is a 2017 space cab with upgraded suspension and will safely and easily tow any van up to 3500 kg
cheers
We recently went to the Flinders Ranges with our 4WD and off-road caravan. We stayed at Willow Springs and Weetootla Gorge National Park. Most of the main dirt roads to the Flinders were wide and good quality with only a fair amount of corrugations. These roads could easily be navigated with a 2WD. But our 4WD vehicle (Patrol Y62) and off-road coupling on the caravan were very useful for getting us into the camping areas, as we had to cross rocky dry creek beds and soft sandy patches to get to the camps.
We also drove a number of 4WD only tracks in the Flinders Ranges without the caravan.
We bought our first 4WD about 30 years ago.
Australia immediately became 4 times the size in terms of where we could go and those new places were some of the best parts of the country and had many fewer people in them, especially tourists.
Our travels now concentrate on those places, so it suits us that most people travel in caravans that can not go to those places or stick with 2WD that don't go there either.
Cheers,
Peter
After a strenuous drive though the mud and slush we'd arrive out, it was a laugh to see who had forgotten to engage their "Free wheeling hubs".
However when I was looking for a vehicle to tow ith, I was looking at 2wd, the wife said get 4wd, and I am glad I did. Used as above, but I also use H2 when I am stopped at wet intersections, or entering a highway from a gravel road, I don't want the rear wheels to spin at those critical moment, and I feel the extra front wheel traction a good safety measure.
If you pulled a boat out of a ramp with a 2 wheel drive when damp, you may have a bit of slipping.
Same with a 2 wheel drive pulling a caravan from a standing start up hill.
One of my son in laws brought this to my attention when I was considering a 2 wheel drive Kluger.
Several cars since then all 4x4s or all wheel drive.
Dick.
So, do you need a 4WD? Depending on your specific needs, I would say probably No. A solid, high clearance 2WD will get you 95% of the places that you are likely to want to go, and it will do the job more economically, with a better ride and less noise than a 4WD and it will be a lot cheaper to operate and maintain.
We don't tow. 99% of the sealed & unsealed roads we have been on the car is probably in 2wd. It changes to 4wd automatically. Sometimes I forget to turn off the stability control which will work against you on a wet slippeey dirt road.
When on loose surfaces the car will change to 4wd, in general I either have forgotten or haven't bothered changing is to the various soft ground settings.
But, it is those last few km to get to some nice place that having a 4wd is priceless. Somewhere like François Péron National Park where you have to drop tyres to 20psi, we could never have done in a 2wd.
Or when the rain just sets in & we are sliding all over the dirt road. It would have been impossible in a 2wd, let alone towing.
To me even if you do not use 4wd, I feel it is insurance for difficult situations. A bit like carrying 2 spare wheels & repair options.
The littke extra cost is a lot of peace of mind!
I haven't regretted having a 4wd at all, it's been an advantage mostly for the reasons given above.
Which way you go is up to you, your finances & where you "might" want to go.
It's a pity they don't make the old rear engined VW Kombi anymore. No they couldn't tow a van but they could go to most places that 4wds went.
Hi David...I suspect that,deep down,you know that you really should buy a 4wd,but that you are maybe hoping to save a few miserable dollars? Do it once,do it well.Go 4wd now. How would you feel if you were stuck off road somewhere,in the back of beyond, unable to get out because you'd bought a 2wd vehicle? I think that is unlikely you'd be thinking "Derr,at least I saved $2000".Do it once,do it well.Cheers
That means you've gone in further than your sense tells you otherwise. You could need recovery gear - shovel, snatch-um-strap, winch (of some description) & possibly another vehicle!
And if you do go down the path of getting a 4wd & it has manual free-wheeling hubs - DON'T FORGET TO LOCK THEM IN before you go 4wd-ing. You often see vehicles spinning their back wheels on a beach, slowly burying the rear & the front wheels are stationary! The drivers tend to be a bit embarrassed when you suggest the FWHs should be locked in!