Looking to purchase our van for trip up over the top from Tweed to Broome. Feedback on others performance re weight of van. Petrol unit not diesel. I understand all the relevant weight issues. Been told must have shower and toilet. Will do some free camping but try for stops where some facilities. Considering hot tap Joolca too.
Welcome all helpful comments
yobarr said
06:48 PM Feb 19, 2021
Humpo wrote:
Looking to purchase our van for trip up over the top from Tweed to Broome. Feedback on others performance re weight of van. Petrol unit not diesel. I understand all the relevant weight issues. Been told must have shower and toilet. Will do some free camping but try for stops where some facilities. Considering hot tap Joolca too. Welcome all helpful comments
Hi John...since you claim to "...understand all the weight issues" I will offer no advice other than to say "Be VERY careful".Good luck with your research.Cheers.
blaze said
08:35 PM Feb 19, 2021
that would nearly have to be a first yobarr
cheers
blaze
thanks for the reply. Must admit I did find the weight issues a bit confusing at first however before I joined G/N I discovered a site that was very helpful. link below. I did some 'sums' on one particular caravan that I was most interested in and found definitely to heavy for my vehicle. I think there are a number of people out there that do not take into account the added weight of fixed accessories to the TARE, maybe believing deduct the compliance plate nominated TARE from the ATM and whatever you have is good to go. If you are already up close to your vehicle capacity it becomes a different calculation. Also not taking into account the transfer of TBW back to your vehicle, the the total GTM.
I wasn't trying to be a smartie, just thankful that I got my head around it. I suspect there are a lot of caravans out there that are either not insured maybe cause they know they are not correct in their weights ratio, or are just ignorant of the procedure to get it right.
A particular owner of a van we viewed when asked who they insured their van with said " we don't, we carry our own insurance". What happens when it gets the wobbles and takes out someone else on the road as well as there own caravan value, possibly due to weight issue and bad stabilizing.
I have viewed some really really good info on the G/N forum in the short time been onboard and I'm sure we will get lots more to soak up in our travels.
Looking to purchase our van for trip up over the top from Tweed to Broome. Feedback on others performance re weight of van. Petrol unit not diesel. I understand all the relevant weight issues. Been told must have shower and toilet. Will do some free camping but try for stops where some facilities. Considering hot tap Joolca too. Welcome all helpful comments
Hi John...if you are happy to tell us what model car you are towing with,I would be happy to give you some detailed advice.As you suggest,there are many people "out there" who have little understanding of weights,and even less interest in learning. Very few understand that the limiting factor with the majority of vehicles is the rear axle carrying capacity.Cheers
PeterD said
09:17 PM Feb 22, 2021
John (humpo,) Be careful yow you interpret the info in that link. They make too much emphasis on tare weight. They should be using the term unloaded weight. The tare weight is the weight that the van leaves the factory, not the weight it is when it is delivered to you. In a high proportion of cases when you order a van with extras, those extras are added by the agent. The weight of those extras is not included in the tare weight. The situation is the same as when you purchase your tug, the weight of the optional extras is not included in the tare weight. The agent does not reweigh the tug and have the tare weight reassessed. Vans are exactly the same. Your link should have been referring to the unloaded weight and not the tare weight when it was discussing loadings.
The other thing that was not mentioned was the transfer of the vans ball weight to the tug. That ball weight is part of the tugs loading and not part of the van when calculating GCM. In other words, you need to count the ball weight as part of the tugs load so as not to overload the tug. As you have accounted the ball weight as part of the tugs load you do not consider it as part of the van's weight whilst calculating GCM.
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:08 PM Feb 22, 2021
G'day Humpo,
I assume from what you have stated that your car is a 2005 model petrol Pajero. And you understand the weights.
The Pajero, my past GU Nissan Patrol & several other cars (you'll find the info deeper in this Tab - Techies Corner) suffer from a limitation - size of caravan & hence ball mass get to a limit & then the BM reduces & while the car can tow something up to a maximum of 3000kg, the nominal BM for a van of that size is 300kg. The info plate (took me 5 years to find mine) set the nominal weight at 250kg!! After that it reduced! Thankfully I was always under.
We bought our Discovery Outback around 4 years ago. Due to the fact that it has an combined ensuite in it, the maximum payload with the van empty is 375kg (normal single axled vans can carry 300kg). Wow!!
Twin axle vans have a nominal load of 400kg + whatever the ensuite allows. You'd have to check the plate in the van. My van with that 375kg also has two 95L water tanks which if full, that is 190kg - not much left over for essential stuff like food, clothing, battery(ies), gas, solar panels, the odd tools, etc!
Yes we had weight issues with the Patrol - the main reason why I bought the D-Max. It was always a guess as to whether we were over or under.
And you're not the only person to fall foul of the "comic" above - he mentioned to me not so long ago that I'm looking for a van built from "Unobtainium"!! Meaning I have zero chances of having a light off-road van that is super strong & can carry a significant load!
I would suggest you have a good look around, even walking into caravan parks & seeing what people have - especially with a Pajero as the tow vehicle. Ask questions. We did that when we had our first camper trailer & others did the same with ours.
Bear in mind that not all of them might be legal with their weights. We now look at every 4WD that has a reasonable sized tinny on top & a large tandem axled van with bikes, generators attached & ask "How heavy is that rig?"
And regarding your trip - you might prefer to travel on the sealed highways or some off road (some dirt roads can be better than the bitumen, but then they can be ****).
Do your homework well, enjoy the planning. Use the stored info in this forum to your best advantage.
PeterD said
11:25 PM Feb 22, 2021
Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
G'day Humpo, I assume from what you have stated that your car is a 2005 model petrol Pajero. And you understand the weights.
The Pajero, my past GU Nissan Patrol & several other cars (you'll find the info deeper in this Tab - Techies Corner) suffer from a limitation - size of caravan & hence ball mass get to a limit & then the BM reduces & while the car can tow something up to a maximum of 3000kg, the nominal BM for a van of that size is 300kg. The info plate (took me 5 years to find mine) set the nominal weight at 250kg!! After that it reduced! Thankfully I was always under.
I don't know why you have lectured him on reduced ball weights. Pajeros built before December 2008 only have a towing capacity of 2500 kg with a 250 kg maximum ball weight.
Warren-Pat_01 said
03:55 PM Feb 24, 2021
Sorry Peter, I hadn't intended to stand on any corns.
I was just stating my experience & with a "more able (?) vehicle" that somewhere there can be a hidden label that takes the puff out of your sails.
Eaglemax said
08:45 PM Feb 28, 2021
Humpo wrote:
Looking to purchase our van for trip up over the top from Tweed to Broome. Feedback on others performance re weight of van. Petrol unit not diesel. I understand all the relevant weight issues. Been told must have shower and toilet. Will do some free camping but try for stops where some facilities. Considering hot tap Joolca too. Welcome all helpful comments
I built my own caravan so I researched on all sorts of things including hot water systems.
In the end I did choose Joolca, available at the big green shed. These instantaneous hot water systems are limited temperature wise through regulation but ideal for a nice hot shower. If using for washing the dishes it's ok also but greasy items add boiling water from a kettle.
I made my Joolca detachable (and as per regulations introduced in the early 1990's cannot operate inside the perimeter of the van walls). Stored in the boot it has a frame that slots in a piece of square tube attached to the chassis just outside the shower. Then connect the in/out hoses. I included a tap on the hot hose for outdoor hot water.
A 120cm long LPG hose goes from the unit through a hole in the LPG cylinder cabinet to a quick release coupling under the regulator.
Regulator/gas piping to our junior 2 burner stove all done by our gasfitter.
In our case as it is a van built for ultra lightweight we use the coiled shower hose to reach the sink so the on/off showerhead is handy for that.
I chose the Joolca for quality and unbeatable after sales service.
Regards Tony
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Sunday 28th of February 2021 08:50:24 PM
Humpo said
08:25 PM Mar 4, 2021
Thank you all for replies. We pick up our caravan on Saturday 6th. We opted for a lighter weight unit to keep well within the parameters of both the caravan and the tug.
Tare 1320, ATM 1725, GVM 1620.
Feel much more comfortable thus way. Might miss out on a few things to load but well manage. Had a look at some good units... some had really good add ons but they kept edging us to the limits with the extra weight. Between the caravan specs and the Pajero specs out of the manual titled vehicle mass I am happy with what we have chosen and at this stage so is the bride as she was as concerned about weight issues towing as I was.
Maybe see some of you around the traps. Could be camped on the beach by the time we get to Broome in early June as the place this year Im told will be packed like a sardine tin. Very heavy bookings already.
Thanks again contributors. Safe journeys
Humpo said
10:22 AM Mar 9, 2021
Hello again Tony. thanks for your reply... we are still working our way through a few processes with the caravan we picked up last Saturday. The HWS is still very much on the agenda. You mentioned the way you had your Joolca set Stored in the boot it has a frame that slots in a piece of square tube attached to the chassis just outside the shower.
If I fix it as a semi permanent to the caravan I will need to put it in the front 'boot'. OR make a custom cabinet on the A Frame and set hoses and gas from there. Mainly want it for shower usage in a dual shower tent (maybe the Joolca one) I'm reading that you have yours semi permanent set up in a special cabinet. OR do you take it out for shower and set it up adjacent to the van ?
Any pics you can let me view ? The other choice I consider is purchase and fit a Suburban or similar HWS, gas / electric, and run appropriate pipes / hoses from that to outside shower and to sink.
Hi John...since you claim to "...understand all the weight issues" I will offer no advice other than to say "Be VERY careful".Good luck with your research.Cheers.
cheers
blaze
thanks for the reply. Must admit I did find the weight issues a bit confusing at first however before I joined G/N I discovered a site that was very helpful. link below. I did some 'sums' on one particular caravan that I was most interested in and found definitely to heavy for my vehicle. I think there are a number of people out there that do not take into account the added weight of fixed accessories to the TARE, maybe believing deduct the compliance plate nominated TARE from the ATM and whatever you have is good to go. If you are already up close to your vehicle capacity it becomes a different calculation. Also not taking into account the transfer of TBW back to your vehicle, the the total GTM.
https://abigpeacheyadventure.com.au/towing-capacity-and-weights-explained/
I wasn't trying to be a smartie, just thankful that I got my head around it. I suspect there are a lot of caravans out there that are either not insured maybe cause they know they are not correct in their weights ratio, or are just ignorant of the procedure to get it right.
A particular owner of a van we viewed when asked who they insured their van with said " we don't, we carry our own insurance". What happens when it gets the wobbles and takes out someone else on the road as well as there own caravan value, possibly due to weight issue and bad stabilizing.
I have viewed some really really good info on the G/N forum in the short time been onboard and I'm sure we will get lots more to soak up in our travels.
Hi John...if you are happy to tell us what model car you are towing with,I would be happy to give you some detailed advice.As you suggest,there are many people "out there" who have little understanding of weights,and even less interest in learning. Very few understand that the limiting factor with the majority of vehicles is the rear axle carrying capacity.Cheers
The other thing that was not mentioned was the transfer of the vans ball weight to the tug. That ball weight is part of the tugs loading and not part of the van when calculating GCM. In other words, you need to count the ball weight as part of the tugs load so as not to overload the tug. As you have accounted the ball weight as part of the tugs load you do not consider it as part of the van's weight whilst calculating GCM.
I assume from what you have stated that your car is a 2005 model petrol Pajero. And you understand the weights.
The Pajero, my past GU Nissan Patrol & several other cars (you'll find the info deeper in this Tab - Techies Corner) suffer from a limitation - size of caravan & hence ball mass get to a limit & then the BM reduces & while the car can tow something up to a maximum of 3000kg, the nominal BM for a van of that size is 300kg. The info plate (took me 5 years to find mine) set the nominal weight at 250kg!! After that it reduced! Thankfully I was always under.
We bought our Discovery Outback around 4 years ago. Due to the fact that it has an combined ensuite in it, the maximum payload with the van empty is 375kg (normal single axled vans can carry 300kg). Wow!!
Twin axle vans have a nominal load of 400kg + whatever the ensuite allows. You'd have to check the plate in the van. My van with that 375kg also has two 95L water tanks which if full, that is 190kg - not much left over for essential stuff like food, clothing, battery(ies), gas, solar panels, the odd tools, etc!
Yes we had weight issues with the Patrol - the main reason why I bought the D-Max. It was always a guess as to whether we were over or under.
And you're not the only person to fall foul of the "comic" above - he mentioned to me not so long ago that I'm looking for a van built from "Unobtainium"!! Meaning I have zero chances of having a light off-road van that is super strong & can carry a significant load!
I would suggest you have a good look around, even walking into caravan parks & seeing what people have - especially with a Pajero as the tow vehicle. Ask questions. We did that when we had our first camper trailer & others did the same with ours.
Bear in mind that not all of them might be legal with their weights. We now look at every 4WD that has a reasonable sized tinny on top & a large tandem axled van with bikes, generators attached & ask "How heavy is that rig?"
And regarding your trip - you might prefer to travel on the sealed highways or some off road (some dirt roads can be better than the bitumen, but then they can be ****).
Do your homework well, enjoy the planning. Use the stored info in this forum to your best advantage.
I don't know why you have lectured him on reduced ball weights. Pajeros built before December 2008 only have a towing capacity of 2500 kg with a 250 kg maximum ball weight.
I was just stating my experience & with a "more able (?) vehicle" that somewhere there can be a hidden label that takes the puff out of your sails.
I built my own caravan so I researched on all sorts of things including hot water systems.
In the end I did choose Joolca, available at the big green shed. These instantaneous hot water systems are limited temperature wise through regulation but ideal for a nice hot shower. If using for washing the dishes it's ok also but greasy items add boiling water from a kettle.
I made my Joolca detachable (and as per regulations introduced in the early 1990's cannot operate inside the perimeter of the van walls). Stored in the boot it has a frame that slots in a piece of square tube attached to the chassis just outside the shower. Then connect the in/out hoses. I included a tap on the hot hose for outdoor hot water.
A 120cm long LPG hose goes from the unit through a hole in the LPG cylinder cabinet to a quick release coupling under the regulator.
Regulator/gas piping to our junior 2 burner stove all done by our gasfitter.
In our case as it is a van built for ultra lightweight we use the coiled shower hose to reach the sink so the on/off showerhead is handy for that.
I chose the Joolca for quality and unbeatable after sales service.
Regards Tony
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Sunday 28th of February 2021 08:50:24 PM
Hello again Tony. thanks for your reply... we are still working our way through a few processes with the caravan we picked up last Saturday. The HWS is still very much on the agenda. You mentioned the way you had your Joolca set Stored in the boot it has a frame that slots in a piece of square tube attached to the chassis just outside the shower.
If I fix it as a semi permanent to the caravan I will need to put it in the front 'boot'. OR make a custom cabinet on the A Frame and set hoses and gas from there. Mainly want it for shower usage in a dual shower tent (maybe the Joolca one) I'm reading that you have yours semi permanent set up in a special cabinet. OR do you take it out for shower and set it up adjacent to the van ?
Any pics you can let me view ? The other choice I consider is purchase and fit a Suburban or similar HWS, gas / electric, and run appropriate pipes / hoses from that to outside shower and to sink.
Thanks Tony