Engine has done 370k and rear main bearing seal done 10k back. This service, bearing seal appears to have failed again.
Dealer is going to remove gearbox to see if the bearing was not fitted properly, OR investigate as to whether the crankshaft has play in the main bearings.
if the bearing seal is faulty it can be replaced and a warranty claim made against the other party. (The other party have agreed to cover any costs if they are at fault.)
IF it is the main bearings a complete overhaul is called for by: Long engine, short engine, or rebuild)
My question: If the latter, is the bearing likely to have catastrophic failure, or will there be warning signs as it deteriorates. I am thinking maybe I can get another 10-15,000k before having to do the repair? Overall, the engine is running well, oil is clean at each service.
I am told to expect $15-20.000 bill for a rebuild.
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 3rd of August 2021 09:48:04 AM
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 3rd of August 2021 10:01:39 AM
Snippy said
11:59 AM Aug 3, 2021
Crank ventilation etc already covered. Seal installation by previous workshop is suss and gearbox needs to be removed to find out who or what is the problem.
"After more work?" Nah! They give me options, I make the choices.
landy said
10:12 PM Aug 3, 2021
I'm no Landcruiser expert. but unless it is really bad I would not be to worried about it in the near term. there are plenty of cars out there that have been running around with leaking rear seals for years. Car manufacturers always used to leave a hole in the bottom gearbox bell housing to let any oil leaking from the rear main bearing drain. As Aus-Kiwi has said I would certainly be investigating possibility Speedy sleeve and a new seal before an engine rebuild if the car is otherwise performing alright.
Aus-Kiwi said
02:24 PM Aug 6, 2021
I would even fit a vacuum pump to run crankcase under vacuum . About 5 to 8lb . A roll of carpet tied under bellhousing to absorb oil and pass pink slip? Try mineral oil ? It helps keep seal soft !!
Rear main seal restorer, claims to be excellent. Usual disclaimer.
Hmm I believe this is not a helpful comment considering the OPs situation. If the previous repair was done badly then a bucket full of risone in the engine will not fix it.
It might be suitable for an old engine with a lot of Ks and a slight leak possibly but once you put it in you need to keep adding it at every oil change to be effective. Seal restorer is a gross overstatement and should really be called a seal rubber sweller. But it will not put the worn lip back on or fill the shaft groove. All the other seals will swell too which might be OK in an old donk and you get through rego again more easily !!
I have used additives when I though they were appropriate for a short term fix but never expect miracles and have never observed any either
Rear main seal restorer, claims to be excellent. Usual disclaimer.
Hmm I believe this is not a helpful comment considering the OPs situation. If the previous repair was done badly then a bucket full of risone in the engine will not fix it.
It might be suitable for an old engine with a lot of Ks and a slight leak possibly but once you put it in you need to keep adding it at every oil change to be effective. Seal restorer is a gross overstatement and should really be called a seal rubber sweller. But it will not put the worn lip back on or fill the shaft groove. All the other seals will swell too which might be OK in an old donk and you get through rego again more easily !!
I have used additives when I though they were appropriate for a short term fix but never expect miracles and have never observed any either
Jaahn
I agree with you Jaahn.....there are no "magic fixes..." Pull flywheel off and seal out and have a look ...."a seal saver.." may then be a good option .Generally work well and are a very cost effective option if there is shaft damage.
Mobi Condo said
05:23 PM Aug 7, 2021
G'day Snippy - rebuild for the v8 "I am told to expect $15-20.000 bill for a rebuild." seems the norm. Our old 80 series 4.2l 1hZ was at $16,000 after 420,000k. Hence it was sold off and we got our Discovery 4 which of course was nearly double the rebuild @$30,000.
bomurra said
12:04 AM Aug 14, 2021
Hello Snippy,
Just a suggestion.
Before you commit to the rebuild, ensure that your engine is breathing correctly.
Do you have an after market catch can fitted, sometimes these cause the engine to build pressure inside the crankcase, placing pressure on the rear main seal causing leaks. This link refers to a similar problem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44cIVBsBKYQ
Does the engine have a pcv valve, if so, is this working correctly, if not the same symptoms can occur.
Usually a rear main bearing that is worn sufficiently to cause the seal to leak, will exhibit other symptoms, are there any noises that sound like worn bearings "knocks" etc.
Hope this helps.
Bob
Snippy said
08:06 AM Aug 14, 2021
All is revealed.
After removing the gearbox it became clear the the seal and the timing cover were both damaged by the person who did the last "repair?)
Lubemobile have now paid for the work under warranty, but wait: There are no rear timing cover parts in Australia and have to be ordered from Japan. Told could be up to 10 weeks.
So, we are stuck in an out of town caravan park with no car.
How can be that parts for a top selling 16 year old car are not stocked in Australia?
What legal recourse do I have here?
Trevor law said
10:54 AM Aug 14, 2021
We had a similar problem when we were in Coffs Harbour ,Toyota told us that there was no hoses for our 200 and we had to wait weeks to come from Japan.But SWMBO (who used to work in the car industry) got the part number from Coffs Toyota and rang around and within a day had the parts shipped from Brisbane.So I would be tryin to get the part numbers you need and start ringing dealerships around Australia yourself,it's just ridiculous, the amount of 200 series in Australia and the amount of dealerships I would be doubtful that none of these parts are in Australia , good luck mate .
Trevor & Jackie
Dicko1 said
11:25 AM Aug 14, 2021
Snippy wrote:
All is revealed.
After removing the gearbox it became clear the the seal and the timing cover were both damaged by the person who did the last "repair?)
Lubemobile have now paid for the work under warranty, but wait: There are no rear timing cover parts in Australia and have to be ordered from Japan. Told could be up to 10 weeks.
So, we are stuck in an out of town caravan park with no car.
How can be that parts for a top selling 16 year old car are not stocked in Australia?
What legal recourse do I have here?
16 year old car and no spares. That would be right. This is why insurance can often be dearer for an older car than a new one. Spare parts are hard to store due to the multitude of new models every year. Covid is causing major headaches for most business,s around the world. Thats why second hand car prices have sky rocketted. As has been suggested..ring every dealer in Oz...chances are someone will have a part sitting there. Good luck.
bomurra said
09:30 PM Aug 14, 2021
Snippy wrote:
All is revealed.
After removing the gearbox it became clear the the seal and the timing cover were both damaged by the person who did the last "repair?)
Lubemobile have now paid for the work under warranty, but wait: There are no rear timing cover parts in Australia and have to be ordered from Japan. Told could be up to 10 weeks.
So, we are stuck in an out of town caravan park with no car.
How can be that parts for a top selling 16 year old car are not stocked in Australia?
What legal recourse do I have here?
Hi Snippy,
The aftermarket spare parts business in Australia is very large, the seal will be readily available from other sources and will be exactly the same, what other bits do you need.
Try this company for a start - https://www.terraintamer.com/en/
Hope this helps,
Bob
Aus-Kiwi said
10:20 PM Aug 15, 2021
TIG weld repair ? 3D metal printer ? If speedy sleeves wont fix ? Good luck
Snippy said
08:45 AM Aug 16, 2021
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
TIG weld repair ? 3D metal printer ? If speedy sleeves wont fix ? Good luck
Re my above post, problem solved, not the crankshaft, just shoddy repair work in bearing seal.
peatop said
12:12 AM Aug 17, 2021
Snippy wrote:
All is revealed.
After removing the gearbox it became clear the the seal and the timing cover were both damaged by the person who did the last "repair?)
Lubemobile have now paid for the work under warranty, but wait: There are no rear timing cover parts in Australia and have to be ordered from Japan. Told could be up to 10 weeks.
So, we are stuck in an out of town caravan park with no car.
How can be that parts for a top selling 16 year old car are not stocked in Australia?
What legal recourse do I have here?
There was a law covering this where any importer of foreign vehicle had to stock all parts before they could sell the vehicle, however it was also time limited I think 4 years but don't quote me on that, I did a cam shaft in my bike many years ago and the importer did not have any in stock and had to air freight it in from Japan at his cost and supply me the use of another bike while I waited, laws seem to be greatly relaxed where big companies are concerned these days so I don't know how the law reads now.
Timing belt cover. Part due to arrive early next week. Repco haven't got any.
Aus-Kiwi said
01:57 PM Aug 19, 2021
Snippy wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
TIG weld repair ? 3D metal printer ? If speedy sleeves wont fix ? Good luck
Re my above post, problem solved, not the crankshaft, just shoddy repair work in bearing seal.
Exactly damaged cover . Can be repaired !! Not saying to weld a crank ! Btw thats what Speede sleeves fix also ! When theres damage to either surface !! Timing belt ?? So its the FRONT crank seal ? The gearbox is not there !!
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Thursday 19th of August 2021 01:59:12 PM
yobarr said
02:04 PM Aug 19, 2021
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Snippy wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
TIG weld repair ? 3D metal printer ? If speedy sleeves wont fix ? Good luck
Re my above post, problem solved, not the crankshaft, just shoddy repair work in bearing seal.
Exactly damaged cover . Can be repaired !! Not saying to weld a crank ! Btw thats what Speede sleeves fix also ! When theres damage to either surface !! Timing belt ?? So its the FRONT crank seal ? The gearbox is not there !!
Settle back Graham,or you'll just cause more confusion,Cheers
Snippy said
03:15 PM Aug 19, 2021
yobarr wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Snippy wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
TIG weld repair ? 3D metal printer ? If speedy sleeves wont fix ? Good luck
Re my above post, problem solved, not the crankshaft, just shoddy repair work in bearing seal.
Exactly damaged cover . Can be repaired !! Not saying to weld a crank ! Btw thats what Speede sleeves fix also ! When theres damage to either surface !! Timing belt ?? So its the FRONT crank seal ? The gearbox is not there !!
Settle back Graham,or you'll just cause more confusion,Cheers
Whatever, the cover is on the rear of the engine. No warranty if plate is repaired, has to be new. Also, cheap patchups no acceptable on my car.
Aus-Kiwi said
05:57 PM Aug 19, 2021
The timing cover is on the front ! When fitting these alloy covers fit seal BEFORE tightening bolts so cover is centred by seal ! Btw alloy welding is not a bodgy repair ! .. They have the kit in Repco Nowra ! Are these guys fitters or mechanics ?
Snippy said
08:30 PM Aug 19, 2021
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
The timing cover is on the front ! When fitting these alloy covers fit seal BEFORE tightening bolts so cover is centred by seal ! Btw alloy welding is not a bodgy repair ! .. They have the kit in Repco Nowra ! Are these guys fitters or mechanics ?
So it's not a timing cover. I am not a mechanic and have no intention of ever being one.
THe part is on the rear of the engine, is stuffed and has to be replaced. Could not give a stuff about what it is called.
As I said previously, the problem will be fixed when the needed part arrives. I don't give **** what it is called, as long as it works. AND, I am not paying for it, the bodgy outfit that screwed it up are.
yobarr said
08:51 PM Aug 19, 2021
Snippy wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
The timing cover is on the front ! When fitting these alloy covers fit seal BEFORE tightening bolts so cover is centred by seal ! Btw alloy welding is not a bodgy repair ! .. They have the kit in Repco Nowra ! Are these guys fitters or mechanics ?
So it's not a timing cover. I am not a mechanic and have no intention of ever being one.
THe part is on the rear of the engine, is stuffed and has to be replaced. Could not give a stuff about what it is called.
As I said previously, the problem will be fixed when the needed part arrives. I don't give **** what it is called, as long as it works. AND, I am not paying for it, the bodgy outfit that screwed it up are.
As a mechanic,Graham has simply been trying to help you,Kevin.However,when you start talking about removing the gearbox and noticing that the timing cover was damaged,it is difficult to offer assistance,since these two parts of the engine are at opposite ends of the block.(Work that out!). Bit like visiting the dentist because you have a sore toe. Graham's advice always is good,but you can no doubt understand that,unless he knows what end of the engine is giving trouble,it is exceedingly difficult to offer assistance.Cheers
Engine has done 370k and rear main bearing seal done 10k back. This service, bearing seal appears to have failed again.
Dealer is going to remove gearbox to see if the bearing was not fitted properly, OR investigate as to whether the crankshaft has play in the main bearings.
if the bearing seal is faulty it can be replaced and a warranty claim made against the other party. (The other party have agreed to cover any costs if they are at fault.)
IF it is the main bearings a complete overhaul is called for by: Long engine, short engine, or rebuild)
My question: If the latter, is the bearing likely to have catastrophic failure, or will there be warning signs as it deteriorates. I am thinking maybe I can get another 10-15,000k before having to do the repair? Overall, the engine is running well, oil is clean at each service.
I am told to expect $15-20.000 bill for a rebuild.
Fit a speedy sleeve kit . In case damage to crank etc . I use a self tapper to remove old seal . Sometimes damage is done to alloy outer housing when replaced . https://www.skf.com/au/products/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve seems they are after more work ? Yet they couldnt fix this ? Check blowby and crank case ventilation? Adding more wont hurt !!
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 3rd of August 2021 09:48:04 AM
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 3rd of August 2021 10:01:39 AM
"After more work?" Nah! They give me options, I make the choices.
As Aus-Kiwi has said I would certainly be investigating possibility Speedy sleeve and a new seal before an engine rebuild if the car is otherwise performing alright.
Rear main seal restorer, claims to be excellent. Usual disclaimer.
Hmm I believe this is not a helpful comment considering the OPs situation. If the previous repair was done badly then a bucket full of risone in the engine will not fix it.
It might be suitable for an old engine with a lot of Ks and a slight leak possibly but once you put it in you need to keep adding it at every oil change to be effective. Seal restorer is a gross overstatement and should really be called a seal rubber sweller. But it will not put the worn lip back on or fill the shaft groove. All the other seals will swell too which might be OK in an old donk and you get through rego again more easily !!
I have used additives when I though they were appropriate for a short term fix but never expect miracles and have never observed any either
Jaahn
I agree with you Jaahn.....there are no "magic fixes..." Pull flywheel off and seal out and have a look ...."a seal saver.." may then be a good option .Generally work well and are a very cost effective option if there is shaft damage.
G'day Snippy - rebuild for the v8 "I am told to expect $15-20.000 bill for a rebuild." seems the norm. Our old 80 series 4.2l 1hZ was at $16,000 after 420,000k. Hence it was sold off and we got our Discovery 4 which of course was nearly double the rebuild @$30,000.
Hello Snippy,
Just a suggestion.
Before you commit to the rebuild, ensure that your engine is breathing correctly.
Do you have an after market catch can fitted, sometimes these cause the engine to build pressure inside the crankcase, placing pressure on the rear main seal causing leaks. This link refers to a similar problem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44cIVBsBKYQ
Does the engine have a pcv valve, if so, is this working correctly, if not the same symptoms can occur.
Usually a rear main bearing that is worn sufficiently to cause the seal to leak, will exhibit other symptoms, are there any noises that sound like worn bearings "knocks" etc.
Hope this helps.
Bob
After removing the gearbox it became clear the the seal and the timing cover were both damaged by the person who did the last "repair?)
Lubemobile have now paid for the work under warranty, but wait: There are no rear timing cover parts in Australia and have to be ordered from Japan. Told could be up to 10 weeks.
So, we are stuck in an out of town caravan park with no car.
How can be that parts for a top selling 16 year old car are not stocked in Australia?
What legal recourse do I have here?
We had a similar problem when we were in Coffs Harbour ,Toyota told us that there was no hoses for our 200 and we had to wait weeks to come from Japan.But SWMBO (who used to work in the car industry) got the part number from Coffs Toyota and rang around and within a day had the parts shipped from Brisbane.So I would be tryin to get the part numbers you need and start ringing dealerships around Australia yourself,it's just ridiculous, the amount of 200 series in Australia and the amount of dealerships I would be doubtful that none of these parts are in Australia , good luck mate .
Trevor & Jackie
16 year old car and no spares. That would be right. This is why insurance can often be dearer for an older car than a new one. Spare parts are hard to store due to the multitude of new models every year. Covid is causing major headaches for most business,s around the world. Thats why second hand car prices have sky rocketted. As has been suggested..ring every dealer in Oz...chances are someone will have a part sitting there. Good luck.
Hi Snippy,
The aftermarket spare parts business in Australia is very large, the seal will be readily available from other sources and will be exactly the same, what other bits do you need.
Try this company for a start - https://www.terraintamer.com/en/
Hope this helps,
Bob
Re my above post, problem solved, not the crankshaft, just shoddy repair work in bearing seal.
There was a law covering this where any importer of foreign vehicle had to stock all parts before they could sell the vehicle, however it was also time limited I think 4 years but don't quote me on that, I did a cam shaft in my bike many years ago and the importer did not have any in stock and had to air freight it in from Japan at his cost and supply me the use of another bike while I waited, laws seem to be greatly relaxed where big companies are concerned these days so I don't know how the law reads now.
Timing belt cover. Part due to arrive early next week. Repco haven't got any.
Exactly damaged cover . Can be repaired !! Not saying to weld a crank ! Btw thats what Speede sleeves fix also ! When theres damage to either surface !! Timing belt ?? So its the FRONT crank seal ? The gearbox is not there !!
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Thursday 19th of August 2021 01:59:12 PM
Settle back Graham,or you'll just cause more confusion,Cheers
Whatever, the cover is on the rear of the engine. No warranty if plate is repaired, has to be new. Also, cheap patchups no acceptable on my car.
So it's not a timing cover. I am not a mechanic and have no intention of ever being one.
THe part is on the rear of the engine, is stuffed and has to be replaced. Could not give a stuff about what it is called.
As I said previously, the problem will be fixed when the needed part arrives. I don't give **** what it is called, as long as it works. AND, I am not paying for it, the bodgy outfit that screwed it up are.
As a mechanic,Graham has simply been trying to help you,Kevin.However,when you start talking about removing the gearbox and noticing that the timing cover was damaged,it is difficult to offer assistance,since these two parts of the engine are at opposite ends of the block.(Work that out!). Bit like visiting the dentist because you have a sore toe. Graham's advice always is good,but you can no doubt understand that,unless he knows what end of the engine is giving trouble,it is exceedingly difficult to offer assistance.Cheers