I have noticed that all the small rechargeable lithium batteries in my house only seem to last about 3 years no matter how often I charge them. All of the 4 x 3D glasses which came with our 3D TV set which were only used very infrequently packed it in after about 3 years and no longer take a charge. The lithium battery in the infrared camera for my iPhone stopped taking a charge after about 3 years of infrequent use. The lithium (I think) batteries in my mp3 players lasted a few years before they stopped taking a charge. The lithium batteries in my electric toothbrushes seem to last only 2-3 years before they stop taking a charge with daily use. I'm thinking of converting a few of these devices (3D glasses and infrared camera) to work using "AA" alkaline batteries as at least "AA"s have a reliable long shelf life.
Therefore it doesn't seem to matter whether you use these small lithium batteries every day or once every 6 months they all seem to last about 3 years before they no longer take a charge. Do small lithium batteries "die" if you don't regularly recharge them?
I was wondering if this also applied to large lithium batteries. Will they all start packing up after 3 years whether you use them continuously or only very infrequently. How long can large lithium batteries survive without being recharged?
I cannot remember how long nickel cadmium rechargeable batteries lasted before they no longer took a charge.
Jaahn said
10:16 AM Aug 24, 2021
Hi Derek
Good question ?? IMHO the problem with the small rechargable batteries is the usual problem of being designed to fail after some time to keep sales going. No profit in things that last for years. But do not go back to Nicads as they had their problems too. They need careful attention to keep going. We had some CDMA Nokia phones from ?? that had a torch in the end and we kept them till only some years ago and the batteries were still good and only needed a charge a couple of times a year.
I have two 40Ahr lithium batteries that are about 8-9 years old and only get charged occasionally when I need to use them and they are OK and seem to have full capacity. They have not been worked hard though. I think the newer style of drop in units may be a different story but it will be revealed in the future how they go !
Jaahn
Whenarewethere said
11:05 AM Aug 24, 2021
I use various small rechargeable batteries & I notice their capacity diminishes over a couple of years & replace them as needed.
The Eneloop standard 2100 cycles, Eneloop Pro 500 cycles but have higher current & slightly lower power loss.
Swings & roundabouts.
Either Eneloop is sill infinitely cheaper than alkaline batteries.
peatop said
11:51 AM Aug 24, 2021
I haven't used LFP batteries yet but have been using Li ion and NMHI for years and found out in the early stages it's all about the charging, I will use one brand as a guide, brand X, I bought about 20 for different uses throughout the home, they came with a charger that you simply plug in the wall and overnight they charge upto 4 AA's, AAA's or a 9V, the issue is they charge on a timer not on voltage, therefore they were being over charged in most cases and I was only getting a few years use out of them, not long after buying these I also bought a industrial 18v screwgun, drill set which also came with a charger, this charger is multi stage and tells you when the battery is full, overhot, dead and shuts down when the battery is full.
Now 15+ years later out of those 20 original AA's and AAA's I think I have maybe 10 left some nearly dead and some (most likely newer ones) still going strong, the screwgun and drill batteries (3) a bit tired but still do as intended, a few years ago I bought a 17.5Ah purpose built Kayak battery the charger that came with it was IMHO something similar to the ones you get for phones and alike, so I bought the upgrade model charger (a hobby charger) this charger is a proper balancing charger $49, you set the type of battery (chemical) and its build (number in series) and capacity (not needed) then press start and it then asks for confirmation, it checks the battery then starts the charge it records the input to the battery and shuts down once charged, the charger has a 6Ah output and you can watch the display and see what it's doing while charging, my kayak and screwgun batteries are made with Li ion 18650 and have never given me any issues charging this way, my other batteries are charged with a similar self contained charger purpose built for Lithium/nicad that you can buy from Jaycar or any e cigarette shop.
Just like you buy a specific dc to dc charger for your house batteries the same consideration needs to be given to your rechargeable batteries I'm yet to find a way to charge my phone or other self contained battery products, although a thought just occurred to me that I connect a cig lighter adapter/usb to my chargers output and run things from that and hope it doesn't conflict.
Scubadoo said
10:51 PM Aug 24, 2021
We have been travelling for 7 years fulltime here in NZ.
Our Canter truck based motorhome has a single battery to both start the truck and power the house behind.
The 4 cell Sinopoly 300Ah LiFePO4 battery still delivers its energy 7 years later.
The annual capacity 30A test last November delivered in excess of 4000Wh and still started the truck with all 3 battery monitors reading 0% SOC.
How long will the battery last? No idea but I will let you know - eventually.
Northernblue said
10:55 PM Aug 24, 2021
Im a tradie and I find that 18v lithium batteries are pretty well shot after 2-3 years.
Im having a dual battery system installed in my new HiAce van next week, my auto elec said to stick to AGM.
In his opinion I can buy/replace a few AGMs under warranty for much less than a lithium battery cost, he also says that the warranty period on lithiums are reducing I dont know, but thats what he tells me, he works this stuff daily I dont.
PeterD said
11:57 AM Aug 25, 2021
Derek Barnes wrote:
I'm thinking of converting a few of these devices (3D glasses and infrared camera) to work using "AA" alkaline batteries as at least "AA"s have a reliable long shelf life.
Snip . . .
I was wondering if this also applied to large lithium batteries. Will they all start packing up after 3 years whether you use them continuously or only very infrequently. How long can large lithium batteries survive without being recharged?
Be careful when you are comparing lithium batteries. Comparing the different types is like comparing oils. Mineral, canola, linseed, olive and tea tree are all types of oils but you can not use them in all applications. Lithium batteries vary widely in their characteristics so you can not interchange the different types. The characteristics vary depending on whatever else is used in the batteries. Many are only primary batteries as detailed on this page. Even the secondary batteries (rechargeable ones) vary quite considerably. Before changing your batteries to carbon-zinc types, check the operating voltage of the cells you are replacing. If their operating voltage is not 1.5 V then forget the idea.
As for comparing the batteries in portable devices with those used in high power applications like caravan house batteries, you can not compare their operating life.
kgarnett said
12:31 PM Aug 25, 2021
As PeterD stated you must be careful comparing the various types of Lithium batteries.
This link provides information about the various types, their typical applications and life etc.
-- Edited by kgarnett on Wednesday 25th of August 2021 12:39:07 PM
Brodie Allen said
12:53 PM Aug 29, 2021
Ken - I just buggered up - I went to the page in your post and went to lunch -
came back and forgot where I got the info from and reposted the page somewhere.
I have noticed that all the small rechargeable lithium batteries in my house only seem to last about 3 years no matter how often I charge them. All of the 4 x 3D glasses which came with our 3D TV set which were only used very infrequently packed it in after about 3 years and no longer take a charge. The lithium battery in the infrared camera for my iPhone stopped taking a charge after about 3 years of infrequent use. The lithium (I think) batteries in my mp3 players lasted a few years before they stopped taking a charge. The lithium batteries in my electric toothbrushes seem to last only 2-3 years before they stop taking a charge with daily use. I'm thinking of converting a few of these devices (3D glasses and infrared camera) to work using "AA" alkaline batteries as at least "AA"s have a reliable long shelf life.
Therefore it doesn't seem to matter whether you use these small lithium batteries every day or once every 6 months they all seem to last about 3 years before they no longer take a charge. Do small lithium batteries "die" if you don't regularly recharge them?
I was wondering if this also applied to large lithium batteries. Will they all start packing up after 3 years whether you use them continuously or only very infrequently. How long can large lithium batteries survive without being recharged?
I cannot remember how long nickel cadmium rechargeable batteries lasted before they no longer took a charge.
Good question ?? IMHO the problem with the small rechargable batteries is the usual problem of being designed to fail after some time to keep sales going. No profit in things that last for years. But do not go back to Nicads as they had their problems too. They need careful attention to keep going. We had some CDMA Nokia phones from ?? that had a torch in the end and we kept them till only some years ago and the batteries were still good and only needed a charge a couple of times a year.
I have two 40Ahr lithium batteries that are about 8-9 years old and only get charged occasionally when I need to use them and they are OK and seem to have full capacity. They have not been worked hard though. I think the newer style of drop in units may be a different story but it will be revealed in the future how they go !
Jaahn
I use various small rechargeable batteries & I notice their capacity diminishes over a couple of years & replace them as needed.
The Eneloop standard 2100 cycles, Eneloop Pro 500 cycles but have higher current & slightly lower power loss.
Swings & roundabouts.
Either Eneloop is sill infinitely cheaper than alkaline batteries.
I haven't used LFP batteries yet but have been using Li ion and NMHI for years and found out in the early stages it's all about the charging, I will use one brand as a guide, brand X, I bought about 20 for different uses throughout the home, they came with a charger that you simply plug in the wall and overnight they charge upto 4 AA's, AAA's or a 9V, the issue is they charge on a timer not on voltage, therefore they were being over charged in most cases and I was only getting a few years use out of them, not long after buying these I also bought a industrial 18v screwgun, drill set which also came with a charger, this charger is multi stage and tells you when the battery is full, overhot, dead and shuts down when the battery is full.
Now 15+ years later out of those 20 original AA's and AAA's I think I have maybe 10 left some nearly dead and some (most likely newer ones) still going strong, the screwgun and drill batteries (3) a bit tired but still do as intended, a few years ago I bought a 17.5Ah purpose built Kayak battery the charger that came with it was IMHO something similar to the ones you get for phones and alike, so I bought the upgrade model charger (a hobby charger) this charger is a proper balancing charger $49, you set the type of battery (chemical) and its build (number in series) and capacity (not needed) then press start and it then asks for confirmation, it checks the battery then starts the charge it records the input to the battery and shuts down once charged, the charger has a 6Ah output and you can watch the display and see what it's doing while charging, my kayak and screwgun batteries are made with Li ion 18650 and have never given me any issues charging this way, my other batteries are charged with a similar self contained charger purpose built for Lithium/nicad that you can buy from Jaycar or any e cigarette shop.
Just like you buy a specific dc to dc charger for your house batteries the same consideration needs to be given to your rechargeable batteries I'm yet to find a way to charge my phone or other self contained battery products, although a thought just occurred to me that I connect a cig lighter adapter/usb to my chargers output and run things from that and hope it doesn't conflict.
Im having a dual battery system installed in my new HiAce van next week, my auto elec said to stick to AGM.
In his opinion I can buy/replace a few AGMs under warranty for much less than a lithium battery cost, he also says that the warranty period on lithiums are reducing I dont know, but thats what he tells me, he works this stuff daily I dont.
Be careful when you are comparing lithium batteries. Comparing the different types is like comparing oils. Mineral, canola, linseed, olive and tea tree are all types of oils but you can not use them in all applications. Lithium batteries vary widely in their characteristics so you can not interchange the different types. The characteristics vary depending on whatever else is used in the batteries. Many are only primary batteries as detailed on this page. Even the secondary batteries (rechargeable ones) vary quite considerably. Before changing your batteries to carbon-zinc types, check the operating voltage of the cells you are replacing. If their operating voltage is not 1.5 V then forget the idea.
As for comparing the batteries in portable devices with those used in high power applications like caravan house batteries, you can not compare their operating life.
As PeterD stated you must be careful comparing the various types of Lithium batteries.
This link provides information about the various types, their typical applications and life etc.
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-205-types-of-lithium-ion
Ken
-- Edited by kgarnett on Wednesday 25th of August 2021 12:39:07 PM
came back and forgot where I got the info from and reposted the page somewhere.
Apologies! age has it's consequences!
Brodie