So what happens to anyone entering Queensland from any other state towing  trailers or vans ??    

Mike

I very much agree with you Dave, but it will need to be better administered than the present system of licencing.

The whole of the bureaucracy, across the length and breadth of the country, needs a complete overhaul.

We need an investigative board, with the powers of a Royal Commission, to totally re-vitalise the various "public services". (A bit of an oxymoron, that! )

absolutely but I dont know how they are going to do it, your figures are spot on the money

I seen an old feller and his wife get out of a new f350 v8 diesel dual rear wheel job with a monster fifth wheeler. if that combo didnt push well past the 8 ton mark I'll go he, and why it doesnt come under the articulated logo I will never know, the fifth wheel was centre of the tray just in front of the axle, very similar setup to any semi I have jockeyed

when this feller got out I nearly fell over backwards he had bloody crutches, now those of you that know me know that I mean no offence here but I just thought "you got to be kidding, the man cant walk and he's in charge of that"

I see so many near misses on so many highways it boggles my mind that for some folk to even have a license should be a crime without turning loose these untrained people in these bohemoths

I'm fully aware that we have worked all our life to get to this stage and we have every right to choose our mode of transport but all I am saying is we must bring some training in to it somewhere, I am just amazed that more arent killed with the rigs that are getting about now

to get my heavy articulated took me an age and a lot of training but a rubber stamp to lose it my hard earned dangerous goods ticket went with it, I still hold my HR, but to get behind the wheel of this heavy combo simply needs a car license, I dont understand it! but I guarantee sometime in the future it will change, it simply has to

I'm not sure if it would force people off the road but if it did then that would be a shame, all I think is needed is a simple "course" of say a week

before anyone gets to go "solo" in a 2 plus tonne puddle jumper a seperate licence should be obtained with a modicom of training, after all the road rules are already instilled in there but the whole "generics" of a puddle jumper is totally different from the standard car,

after a "p" plate period of say 12 months with all skills training passed then maybe more training could be put in place for towing, not a standard trailer but anything from a 17 foot van onwards including boats, this could include reversing procedures, load distribution procedures, load management, load tethering, fuel handling, accident avoidance as well as patience on the road and learning to allow other vehicles the oppurtunity to overtake

all that I have stated here must by law be achieved by any person undergoing licence instruction to operate a truck with gross weight loading above 4.5 ton, and yet the vehicle combinations that are out there and operated by unskilled personell are way above the 4.5 ton mark these combo's should not be allowed to be piloted by an unlicenced, untrained driver

I really feel that in the near future it will come to pass

brickies wrote:

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Dave i think you have nail this one ,it should be all about the weight limited if over 4.5 ton maybe a MR OR HR LICENCE be required, like with motorhomes

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Terry, I'd be more proscriptive even than that.

I think that length, width and articulation should be considered.

The C class licence should restrict the driver to a light trailer of maybe the classic 6 x 4 variety.

Watching some of the potential 'disasters-on-wheels' moving house on week-ends with a hired 8 x 15 dual axle trailer is the stuff of recurrent nightmares.

 

It's okay to set the limits, but who's going to train these drivers to get these licences?
Would the instructors be failed cowboy truckies?
Who would do the training to prepare these drivers? How much would the course and licence cost?
Who would train the trainers? What qualifications would they need?
It's a much bigger picture. It has state and national implications and everyone would have to be on the same page.

Puddle jumper or Suzuki Swift - in the wrong hands with the wrong foot on the pedal, they're all potential lethal weapons.
Drivers cause accidents, not the vehicles.

My concern is, if the newbies are required to gain some towing experience with an instructor, there will be a cost, of course.
If the trainer doesn't follow the guidelines manual someone else has written, there is opportunity for misinterrpretation. Thereby compounding the existing problem. Then if the driver takes things into his/her own hands after they've passed the course and gained the endorsement, the training has been a complete and utter waste of time. And the rest of us are at their mercy on the road, again.
I've seen those 3tonne castles being towed by Hyundai all-wheel drive, Kia, BMW, Ford, and Nissans, all under 3litres, with a body weight of maybe 1 tonne.
These fellows argue the torque and horsepower capabilities to tow the 20ft plus castle with full bathroom complete with washing machine etc., the satellite dish and every accessory from the camping shop.
What hope do they have? And the dealers let them tow out of the sales yard.

Mick, mate, some of us would be denied the opportunity to travel with a caravan if the courses were to cost too much.

My whole outfit will cost me less than $15,000 by the time I've finished off all the necessary pre-trip maintenance and minor modification.

Too right, I got good buys on both my tug and van, but it did take a lot of patient searching.

The subsequent research re. solar power, current towing practices etc. have also required a lot of time and effort.

As a long term disability pensioner and a triple divorcee ( "the triumph of hope over experience...") my capital is close to zero and my income marginal.

I'm not alone in living within these constraints; there are many others like me who have to be parsimonious in the extreme if we are to have any quality of life.

What I'm really saying is; not everyone who goes 'nomading' can do so in the extremes of luxury that some are able to, and not everyone can take on casual work to supplement their income.

As things are at present, it is still possible for the "lower socio-economic orders" to make a traveling life for themselves if they apply the same kind of tight control over their expenditures as they do in a fixed dwelling, but too much in the way of added imposts could bring it all to a screaming halt.

Terro your right on the money. Maybe a 1 day training course before you can buy a caravan or trailer, just so everybody starts from the same point with the same skills & knowledge..
Then everyday after that is a new learning curve.

dave06 wrote:

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...........if you can afford to travel then you can afford to get the training and licence to do it safely

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You missed the point, Dave.

It costs no more, indeed, in some respects less, to "take to the road" than it does to sit in a fixed abode.

When you are already living below the theoretical "poverty line", as people dependent on Government pensions technically are, then every extra expense becomes a major consideration.

An example:  My priority is to finish off my rig so that I can get mobile.

The requirements: Money to buy new bearings and brakes on the 'van, some minor carpentry inside with associated costs, a porta potty, a shower tent.

Method: Buy no booze; no take-aways; buy only goods on special; no coffees out with friends; buy clothes only from charity shops; etc.etc.

Result: Provided no major unexpected expense crops up, then, over a protracted time period, the goal might be achieved

Though, at the present rate of progress, I may well be to old and infirm to actually get "out there" before it is all accomplished.

That is not a joke: It is a very real possibility.

So please, less pontification about what others can, or cannot afford.

Unless you have actually been trapped in a position where you are counting individual dollar coins to determine whether or not you can achieve even modest goals, then it is  "better to say nothing and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it."

 

 

-- Edited by Rolly on Tuesday 13th of October 2009 10:13:11 AM

just on the costing of this, assuming this is to come into effect, which seems to be a "sticky point", what if an old "has been" heavy vehicle operator (ex trucky by any other name) was to take this training on

assuming a lot of things here but if it was run on a "bulk lot" of say 10 people at a time, running for a week (5 days)

assuming a base rate pay of $1,000.00 per week for the trainer plus costs (whatever they may be) then why wouldnt the cost to each person going through the training be less than $150, $150 x 10 = $1,500, the cost may be lower still if the "students" had their own vehicle???

surely everyone would be willing to fork out a once only cost of $150 for training of this kind, once this "extra" licence has been achieved the ongoing cost would be nil, and the benefits of having that sort of training behind you would have to be astronomical, I for one would love to see the reversing manouvre mastered by all

but as previously stated it is all conjecture and probably wont come to pass

Called into the tourist information centre at Renmark this afternoon. Brochure for
 5th Wheeler Hire.
Conditions are over 21 and a current drivers license, no mention of experience.

For information rates are
3 nights & weekend
with iveco dual cab $1315

-- Edited by Gary and Kerry on Tuesday 13th of October 2009 03:20:20 PM

Isn't this what our country is about............the right to have your own opinion and the liberty to express it. 

Doesn't have to agree with everyone else.

Ma

oh dear Rolly, cant help yourself can you, yet another sad cheap example! nothing to misinterpret about a direct insult from a well practiced forum jockey! sad really, oh well I guess this way someone is talking to you! you really should heed your own advice though!

Gary it was the same when we hired the motorhome in Tassie, 4.5 ton of top heavy truck, (isuzu npr250) only a car licence required, no experience asked for only the age over 21, I have plenty of heavy vehicle experience but not long after we picked it up my skills were tested, we picked it up in launceston and imediately headed over to the east coast, through the upper esk to st mary's i am not sure of the name of the road but it was straight up and straight down with right angle bends, I would place it as one of the toughest roads I have ever travelled with any vehicle

I have never tried towing a fifth wheeler, they are supposedly easier and safer than a c/van but surely there would be specialist skills required in those as well

I Have heard of some c/van retailers offering a very short course on the c/van operation, reversing and hitching and unhitching, noll's c/vans I think offer it in adelaide, I feel that it is a step in the right direction, even a small ammount of training is better than none

just on a similar note when we were in tassie 5 years ago a car load of japanese tourists in a commodore ran straight into the wall on elephant pass, not used to driving on the left, this is another area of concern, to me anyway, overseas tourists coming over and not used to driving on the left, and most not able to read the road signs, troubling times!