Over the Limit

jimbo · Guru

Over the Limit

Happywanderer · The Master

I would think that would have to be right Jim, I have read of guys being charged in cars as keys in ignition but they were just sitting there, not going anywhere.
Can't help anymore than that.

delatite · Veteran Member

Hi Jim,

In this circumstance the member is wrong.  Before he can request that you undergo a preliminary breath test 
the member must FIND you driving or in charge.  Given that you have mentioned the "In Charge" situation, 
the definition of "In Charge" is as follows:-

 (a)  a person who is attempting to start or drive the motor vehicle;

   (b)  a person with respect to whom there are reasonable grounds for the
        belief that he or she intends to start or drive the motor vehicle;

   (c)  a commercial driving instructor while the person whom he or she is
        teaching to drive is driving or in charge of the vehicle;

   (d)  an accompanying licensed driver while the person whom he or she is
        sitting beside is driving or in charge of the vehicle.

If none of these circumstances are present then the member has no power to request
that a preliminary breath test be conducted.

Regards

Paul

Happywanderer · The Master

Wouldn't (b) be the one Jim is referring to. intentions to start the vehicle, eg the keys are in the ignition.

brickies · Guru

One would think if you are park on the side of the road with key in your pocket I would think you are in charge of that vehicle if your not who is

Hylda&Jon · Guru

What about, it's winter, your in your car after drinking & just trying to sleep it off but, as it's freezing, you have the car running & the heater on

. Fun one for the courts

brickies · Guru

Lawyers picnic and the winner is the lawyer

jimricho · Guru

brickies wrote:

Lawyers picnic and the winner is the lawyer

Especially with the phrase "reasonable grounds"

Forget a common sense interpretation as the law and "common sense" are mutually exclusive.

Zoomtopz · Guru

Alcohol does some strange things to Some people .
It could , "could" make them forget they were parked up for the night ,
start up & drive on . I know it is unlikely to happen ,remember the old
saying - There's people who can drink , there's people who can't drink .
Then there Is the person who Should Not drink . I believe we are talking
about that person here .
Richo

jimbo · Guru

Thank you very much Paul...I, admit at the time it sounded strange....Almost can give one a false sense of security......I often! after a long drive pulled over for the night and had a couple of stubbies

Pam · Guru

do what son used to do and sleep in car with keys on floor in the back of the car not in the ignition

jimbo · Guru

I remember a few years ago on the great Ocean rd....A couple of P platers who were sleeping in their Car overnight in one of the Parking Bays had his licence suspended I think he was deemed as being in charge of a Vehicle whilst drinking....They went to Court and the Bloke was found Guilty.....I remember at the time feeling so angry at the Police for treatment the blokes received

petengail · Guru

Years ago a Navy mate was done for DUI, whilst sleeping in the back seat of his car in Randwick Sydney. Didn't want to drive home after drinking. I can't imagine the keys were in the ignition. This was though, in the days when the police would just round up sailors, drunk or not just to make up the numbers in the Darlingtonhurst lockup...

jimbo · Guru

With all respect to Paul's answer a couple of Posts ago...I,wish we had a clear ruling on this subject it is so important...What is more important than one's licence if you are a traveller.....There is so many Grey area's in this country with each State having their own interpretation of the law...I stand to be corrected.....Also I would like this to be tabled at the next general meeting

brickies · Guru

Is Paul post out of a traffic act of a particular state in australia , there was a case in Queensland many years ago were a chap was charged with being in charge of a vehicle because he had the car keys on him in the hotel and found guilty would be different maybe today and if he had a lawyer

lilly31 · Guru

dont know about d.u.i but friend of mine had started car before puting seat belt on and was charged for have no seat belt .just in wrong place at wrong time i guess

Hylda&Jon · Guru

I find that one a bit rough & I'm sure he could have got out of it.
As far as I know it is completely legal to reverse a car witout a seat belt on so I can't see how the guy got booked for not wearing one when he wasn't going anywhere.

Cheers
Jon

keviny6 · Veteran Member

B is right --from personal experience -- went to sleep in car in pt augusta --2am police woke me up by shining torch in window ---no keys in ignition had a enough brains to remove them.
was told that i was lucky that no keys were present other wise i would have been asked to do the breath test --so they just said sweet dreams and left

lilly31 · Guru

Jon .. he did try to get out of it was told law is seatbelts before ignition or setting off ... not sure about laws and resevering and seat belts .. but $300. and three demerits points later ..he alway put seat belt on before key go in ignition now

DellieMay · Senior Member

Dero was fined for failing to stop at a stop sign... He was on his pushbike, did stop...but failed to put his foot on the ground!!!! Fine stated..make of vehicle..."speedwell". Forgotten the amount, but was not happy.
Merry Christmas
Dellie and Dero

lilly31 · Guru

sometime it not fair ..guess goverment need all the money they can get and dosent matter how it seems .....many years ago i knew a little old lady got a fine for not haveing here windscreen washer bottle filled up not sure how much ..was visting highway patrol office in out town for christmas period....

jimbo · Guru

Good one Keviny 6....You can all see what I mean about Different Laws in every State....This is Crazy...What can we do........I want a clear ruling on this....But it is never going to happen..Like the speed camera's It's all stacked against us.......I might add Deliberately too...How say you all ?

delatite · Veteran Member

HI again, thanks for the replies. Being just a poor pensioner now

, in a former life (2 months ago) this was my job.

Unfortunately the law in itself is very subjective and open to interpretation. Also like the Road Rules that are supposed to be Australia wide, each state has their own version! My reply is based on the Road safety Act 1986 (Victoria). I believe that while there may be minor differences, the essence would be be the same in the legislation of each state

Reasonable grounds in my view would be that you would be showing a degree of intent to start/drive etc the car. ie if everything is completed from the passenger side there is no intent, thus no reasonable grounds. Should you attempt to start the car for any reason, put the keys in the ignition etc, whatsoever I feel that you my be on the wrong end of the stick.

If a sleep or similar is needed where possible avoid the drivers seat, although if you get a knock on the door and you're sound asleep I would fail to see how there would be reasonable grounds.

Kevin is probably about right. Show no intent and all is sweet. His was personal experience. I'm sure that many people have a "friend" that has experienced difficulties. personal experience is the only method by which you can guage a particular matter.

Jim, you will never get an answer from any Police department in writing stating an answer about anything.

Also this is my personal view (based on 33 years) not a legal opinion to be relied upon.

Zoomtopz · Guru

A bit off topic .
These new "log book" for truckies - Work Diary . They are AUSTRALIAN -
But on Several things , you can say do a trip from Bris-Melb . Be legal in Qld ,
legal in NSW . BUT get booked in Vic , even when you have travelled LEGAL .
So if you are legal how are they booking truckies ?? It's only on entering Vic .
Leaving Vic , you are ok . But if you get pulled up leaving , they don't book you
for the "illegality'' you made you made coming in .
So , it does not matter what it is , if they want you , they will find something .
Does not matter which State .
Richo.

jimbo · Guru

Thanks again Delalite..What a bloody crazy mixed up place I live in.....Nothing is never clear cut......

brickies · Guru

But I think it is up to us to aware that if you are parked up on the side of the road or where ever you could have to move your rig at any time for lots of reason eg floodwater or fire so if you want to drink stay in a caravan , motor home you would have to zero reading

jimbo · Guru

Gee Brickie " That's a bit hard....Zero....Even the Police would never get that low....In Victoria a couple of years ago A Policeman on Duty manning a booze Bus was sent home with an escort.....I am not anti Police they have a job too do.....My point is....Now one will have a licence if that was the case....Except if one is a teetotaler....Pulling into rest spots all over the Country I have seen ladies and men with a VB between their lips......I asume after a long drive of course anfd good luck to them

brickies · Guru

Welcome I don't know about other state but in Queensland it zero over 2 tons i think , camper van would ok but motor home I would think would be zero , when I was in the Queensland fire service you had to be zero when on duty driving or not , This is a post we all should be aware of traveling from state to state , other state may be different some member who were or are intrstate drivers may be able to shone some light on this

jimbo · Guru

I know Truckies are Zero in all States and should be....But I am talking about grey Nomads and caravans Coasters Ordinary 4X4 Cars and suck

brickies · Guru

Welcome your right but most motor homes and bigger bus would be zero