Sine Wave Inverter

Happywanderer · The Master

Sine Wave Inverter

DeBe · Guru

Hi Happywanderer, Be very carefull of sales people. If you want a pure sinewave inverter be specific. There is 2 types you mabe offered , a PSW should be a pure sine wave, close to mains type supply. An example is the Jaycar model M1-5162,380Watt, this is a pure sine wave $269. The other type is MSW Modified sine wave & they are a lot cheeper Jaycar model M1-5104, 300Watt, $79.95. So the bottom line is if its cheep be wary! Just checked out the super cheep SCA300 on line & it doesnt say if its a Sine wave inverter. The AutoBarn also doesnt say SineWave either & at that price Im not surprised.

-- Edited by DeBe on Sunday 6th of March 2011 05:16:02 PM

Happywanderer · The Master

Ive got the brochures here DeBe, The Supercheap auto one is SCA (ownbrand) Pure Sine Wave Inverter. Greater than 90 % efficiiency, Overload and short circuit protection, Automatic thermal shutdown, auto restart function. The 600 w is $179 and the 300 w is $119. All that info is from the brochure.

The autobarn brochure shows the $69.99 one but you are right, its not a sine wave.

Will take note the Jaycar one you suggested and will go look at the other Autobarn ones, they must have some Pure Sine Wave ones in there.

yeoeleven · Guru

Hw,

I have been watching the 600 w sinewave inverter at SuperCheap and it was $229 until this brochure. I have just bought one at $179 so I suggest if you can verify your information quickly because it is likely to be back to $229 after this week.

I also bought their 600 w jump starter for $29.95 it was $42 before this brochure.

John

Sheba · Guru

What will you be running that needs an inverter Marj ?

Cheers,
Sheba.

Happywanderer · The Master

Yes, thats the one yeoeleven. I'm getting the 300 wt at 119.00. The sale is on till (oh bummer it finished yesterday) Will have to go in for another look. I had been in and verified my information just hadn't realised the brochure ran out yesterday.
Even though in the brochure it is called a SCA their own brand, if you look closely it is actually called a Calibre which is what my S.in.L. found on their online site at 149.00 so will have to go have another look.
Worked out and written on the other thread will need it for the TV among other things as once I have it might as well use it. Thought I might have got away without it after questions in the other thread but S.in.L said I have to have an inverter for the TV to convert to 240 from 12 volt.

Sheba · Guru

Worked out and written on the other thread will need it for the TV among other things as once I have it might as well use it. Thought I might have got away without it after questions in the other thread but S.in.L said I have to have an inverter for the TV to convert to 240 from 12 volt.

Don't you have a 12V TV ?

Cheers,
Sheba.

Happywanderer · The Master

No Sheba I have a normal digital Tv 19 inch I think it is. SinL got me to check so I know it is a 35 wt.

jandas fun · Guru

Hi HW
how old is your 19" t.v? most small tv's now have the 12v (dc) option automatically.
Have a check at the back and side and see if it mentions dc anywhere.

Johnw

Happywanderer · The Master

Bought it last Sept so it is only 5 months old. Will go and check for the dc option.

Edited for update.

It says on the back AC 100 - 240 volt 50/60 Hz 35 W

Its a Samsung.

It doesn't say DC anywhere but does have a USB port in the back, not sure what for.

-- Edited by Happywanderer on Sunday 6th of March 2011 09:57:21 PM

jandas fun · Guru

When we updated our caravan tv last year we looked at 3-4 large retailers and found that
most of the smaller tv's already had the 12v option, and some had the 12v cord and plug included.
The only other suggestion would be to check the manual .
Good luck with that, was hoping to save you some money.

Johnw

milo · Guru

the tv in the tardis (dads motor home) has the option of 12 v and normal volt..

jimricho · Guru

DeBe wrote:

Hi Happywanderer, Be very carefull of sales people. If you want a pure sinewave inverter be specific. There is 2 types you mabe offered , a PSW should be a pure sine wave, close to mains type supply. An example is the Jaycar model M1-5162,380Watt, this is a pure sine wave $269. The other type is MSW Modified sine wave & they are a lot cheeper Jaycar model M1-5104, 300Watt, $79.95. So the bottom line is if its cheep be wary! Just checked out the super cheep SCA300 on line & it doesnt say if its a Sine wave inverter. The AutoBarn also doesnt say SineWave either & at that price Im not surprised.

-- Edited by DeBe on Sunday 6th of March 2011 05:16:02 PM

I endorse Daryl's comments. If it doesn't very specifically state that it is Pure sine wave one would have to assume it is not pure sine wave

There is much comment elsewhere on this forum about the risks of using inverters that are not pure sine wave with electronic equipment.

DeBe · Guru

I like pictures to describe the difference betwean things, & try & make the description simple to understand. Picture as a Pure sinewave (from a kipor digital inverter generator) this is what a Puresinewave Inverter will put out & is the same as a mains supply. Briefly 50 times a second the Voltage goes from a Negative voltage up through Zero volts to a positive voltage, then back down through zero volts to negative. This is your sine wave. To create this in an inverter uses a more complex circuit, this why they cost more.

DeBe · Guru

The next one is a Jaycar 300Watt MSW modified sine wave inverter. the wave form is steped not a sine wave. I do use one & have found most properly designed swichmode powersuplys & smps plug packs are quite happy to run on this unit i have a 35watt 240v ac fan that also runs of this & is not noisy.

DeBe · Guru

This last one is a Square Wave Inverter, not one you would want to buy as it has higher voltage spikes on top of the wave form, this is what does the dammage to your electronics. These are generaly very cheep to buy. My recomendation is if you can afford it Buy a Pure sinewave Inverter. Hope this makes it a bit clearer as to what is out there. If not ask more questions.

Happywanderer · The Master

Thank you so much DeBe for that pictorial info, makes it all a lot easier to understand. Talked to SinL last night, he gave me some brands names to look at, am heading up town now to have a look around, get some prices. Will definitely get and can afford a Pure Sine Wave and won't be getting a modified one.

jimricho · Guru

As you can see from Daryl's pictures the term "modified sine wave" is an intentionally deceitful misnomer. Creating confusion in the minds of non-technical people is the very intention of the ethically challenged marketers in using this term.

(the word "sine" has a precise mathematical definition as those who can recall their high school trigonometry will remember)

PS: Marj, have you determined that you have a need for an inverter?

I have owned a small inverter for over ten years and could count on one hand the number of times I have used it, and then it was mainly for powering a soldering iron to carry out some minor repairs.

-- Edited by jimricho on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 07:11:16 AM

Firefly · Guru

Daryl we have two modified inverters. If we were to purchase a pure sinwave, what difference would it mean when using one.

I am not techy in any way. smile

Happywanderer · The Master

Yes Jim, I have determined I need an inverter, mainly for the TV and maybe for the laptop. And probably a few other things I haven't worked out yet.

Firefly, if you scroll back up you will see from DeBe's photos the difference between a Pure and a modified. In simple terms from my point of view you get a more even power distribution flow with a Pure, and it is more jerky and less flowing with a modified.
Hope I explained that properly.

Firefly · Guru

Thanks Marj, I am a bit thick some days. wink

Happywanderer · The Master

Thats ok, me too a lot of days.

DeBe · Guru

Happywanderer, you seem to have a fair grasp on it now, i try & explain or show how something works in a easy way. Firefly. If your gear is working ok on a MSW with no problems then it should be ok. The inverter in the pic (powerhouse) is a Jaycar 300W MSW which Ive been using & have had no problems runing a small 35Watt fan & phone chargers solong as they are a switchmode type. They will have a label which shows 100v-240V AC on them. They are not fussy if its a Sinewave or MSW. That said if the cost is not a problem go for a pure sinewave type. This pic is a typical phone charger switchmode power type.

-- Edited by DeBe on Wednesday 9th of March 2011 06:10:21 PM

Firefly · Guru

Ok, mate, thanks for that. I think I might get him to upgrade to the pure. smile

wizz97 · Newbie

HI, If you need to use an inverter don't go above 300W and yes spend the money and get a decent Pure Sine. It's much more energy efficient if you run any electronics of 12V. You can buy a convertor to charge your laptop of 12V, consumes less power than using an inverter. If there is a black box in your TV power lead check wether the output is marked 12V DC or there abouts. If it is you can have a lead made up to run the TV directly of 12V.

Hope this helps

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

I'm going to ask a funny question - can I convert a modified sinewave inverter to a sine wave inverter by running the output (yes, I know it's 230-240vAC, perhaps higher if there are any spikes) through a dirty big electrolytic capacitor rated at 260vAC? I know it won't be cheap, though - just don't like throwing little used equipment away.

Warren

meetoo · Guru

I also have an inverter question for those who know. Would a pod coffee machine pacifically need a pure sine wave inverter, or would a modified sine wave inverter do, seeing as it is not sensitive elctronics like a laptop etc?

Thanks, John.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Elements don't care . But electronics are fussy . I would purchase a 12v TV off https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/kogan-24-led-tv-full-hd-dvd-player-combo-ze/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_listing_ads&gclid=CKiM4ZjBzs0CFZcRvQodyCMCIQ

Jaahn · Guru

Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
I'm going to ask a funny question - can I convert a modified sinewave inverter to a sine wave inverter by running the output (yes, I know it's 230-240vAC, perhaps higher if there are any spikes) through a dirty big electrolytic capacitor rated at 260vAC? I know it won't be cheap, though - just don't like throwing little used equipment away.

Warren

Hi Warren,

DO NOT TRY THAT. It will blow up the inverter. The square wave inverters hate capacitors due to the fast rise of the voltage causing overload of the output transistors.

Just use it to drive lights or heater loads or phone chargers or the like. Even laptop chargers dare I say here !

Jaahn

Hylife · Guru

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Elements don't care . But electronics are fussy . I would purchase a 12v TV off https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/kogan-24-led-tv-full-hd-dvd-player-combo-ze/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_listing_ads&gclid=CKiM4ZjBzs0CFZcRvQodyCMCIQ

+1

A new 12V DC television will be as cheap and better than messing about with inverters and their inherant inefficiencies and power losses.

With a 12V TV, you can always purchase an optional 230V AC to 12V DC plugpack adaptor should you really want to use mains power when in a van park instead of your 12V DC.