Spongy Suspension

aroundthetraps · Veteran Member

Spongy Suspension

Travel Bug · Guru

G'day aroundthetraps...

Sorry...can't help with the suspension....

Just want to say welcome.

Cheers. Travel Bug smile

elliemike · Guru

aroundthetraps wrote:
New Member, new van, bought it yesterday. Van weighs 1500ks, tows well, pulls well but noticed the suspension on the Kia Sorento is slightly spongy. Should I replace strutts with heavier gas shocks, will that lift the car up and make a rougher ride empty ?

Welcome.

Could possibly be the the way your van is loaded. Too much weight on the tow hitch.

Lots of stuff on this site from past posts, on load levelling and towing. Do a search (top centre of this page) Type in say ! "Towing weight" "WDH"

And you will get lots of answers to your query.

Regards

Mike

old briney · Senior Member

you dont say if the Kia Sorento is auto or manual! if it is auto the towing weight is 2000kgs and manual is 2500kgs, 1500kgs tare van plus loaded extras will bring it up to about 2000kgs approx, so i would fit a WDH to try first

Vic · Guru

If you are thinking of fitting a WDH (Weight Distribution Hitch), make sure your vehicle is suited for it. For instance, my ex Nissan X'Trail could not have one fitted as Nissan do not recommend them. Instead I had same size but heavier gauge rear coil springs fitted by Pedders and this stopped any sagging but made not noticeable difference to the ride. Check with Kia or your Kia manual.

I towed my van all around Oz without WDH including a couple of previous vans and all without incidence, you don't say what type of van you have but at those weights I am sure you would be quite safe. WDH is overkill for some small vans IMHO, also depends on what tug you are using.

-- Edited by Vic on Sunday 29th of May 2011 11:40:22 AM

aroundthetraps · Veteran Member

Thanks guys,

sounds like WDH is the way to go, I'll check out the prices tomorrow. Cheers

Vic · Guru

I'd suggest you do a bit more research like I mentioned in my previous post. hmm

Read the posts on this link;

http://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php?/topic/11837-weight-distributionload-levelling/

-- Edited by Vic on Sunday 29th of May 2011 02:35:44 PM

aroundthetraps · Veteran Member

Hi Vic,

Wow, what tremedous support from everyone. We have a Kia Sorento V6 3500, says in the hand book 2300 ks max, our van is a Jayco Westport, weighs 1500ks empty. Not sure after your comments wether to fit WDH or bigger gas shocks. Everyone seems to go the WDH way for a bigger van and bigger car. I see they are about $220 plus fitting cost or do they come in a pack and you fit them yourself ?

Cruising Granny · Guru

Hi and welcome "Around The Traps". I hope you enjoy your stay on Grey Nomads.
Are you using leveller bars or some form of stabilisation with you tow gear?
Is the van single or dual axle?
The tow vehicle is probably sprung and suspended for comfort travel. If you're towing it will have to be upgraded to handle the load so you don't lost steering on the front end of the tug. (Kia)
As previously suggested, the van has to be fairly well balanced before it's hitched up, then all these other things will have the best chance of doing what they're designed to do to make your travel as safe as possible.

Onedodger · Guru

I do believe that there are aftermaket tow packs for Kia's.

Suggest you visit an ARB , TJM, Opposite Lock type supplier and make enquiries.

Any Vehicle that is towing will be enhanced by a Weight Distrubition Hitch (WDH).

However some vehicle manufacturers do not advise to do so.

I think you will find that Kia actually advise not to use one.

Check with your local dealer and/or caravan accessories shop.

-- Edited by Onedodger on Sunday 29th of May 2011 03:53:50 PM

Vic · Guru

aroundthetraps wrote:
Hi Vic,
Wow, what tremedous support from everyone. We have a Kia Sorento V6 3500, says in the hand book 2300 ks max, our van is a Jayco Westport, weighs 1500ks empty. Not sure after your comments wether to fit WDH or bigger gas shocks. Everyone seems to go the WDH way for a bigger van and bigger car. I see they are about $220 plus fitting cost or do they come in a pack and you fit them yourself ?
Hi Peter,
I am not saying don't fit WDH or gas shocks (or my suggestion at upgraded coil springs) but the link to the Kia Forum states that the manufacturer (Kia) do not recommend it, also could be an insurance problem if you do.
Maybe a post on the Kia forum may help to find out what other owners have done, would still contact Kia though and then make up your mind before you spend the cash. Jayco Westport are a good van and there are many of them around. Hope you get it sorted soon whichever way you go.
Just a note, my fitting of upgraded coil springs made no difference to the comfort or ride when empty. It was first suggested to me for a Toyota Camry I had by a Toyota Service Centre and proved to be a good move, hence also doing the same thing to my later X'Trail as the manufacturers do not recommend WDH's for them or some of the other Nissan tugs either.
Just as it could be safe to use them with some vehicles, it could be just as unsafe to use them with others.

Vic · Guru

Onedodger wrote:
I think you will find that Kia actually advise to use one
According to the link I provided enquiries with Kia and their manual says otherwise, although it appears that verbally have said to one person it depends on how you use them, click on;
http://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php?/topic/11837-weight-distributionload-levelling/
Also some disagreement by others on whether you should or shouldn't.

-- Edited by Vic on Sunday 29th of May 2011 03:02:11 PM

Onedodger · Guru

Vic I looked at that link and I now feel sorry for all Sorento owners.

I suggest strongly that all should read that link.

If one wants to keep the Sorento then I would go ahead with a suspension upgrade.

Dodg.

Vic · Guru

Sounds good to me Dodg......it seems a very grey area where you're damned if you do or damned if you don't. I have read of cases that have not had upgrades where the extra strain of WDH's have loosened or tore away bolts on the vehicle tow bar fixings and the tug and van have departed company. On the other hand you here of vehicles having roll overs or sway accidents by not having them fitted.

Hopefully the suspension upgrade will sort Peter's dilemma out so he can make the right decision before he departs with his dollars (or so he can buy the right stuff needed).

I love the way these vehicle manufacturers cover their backsides just in case then verbally tell you other things.......

aroundthetraps · Veteran Member

Duel axle

Vic · Guru

aroundthetraps wrote:
Duel axle
I assume that is the Westport. I have only ever towed with single axles so will leave that one to others. If you do decide to buy something, unless you are very proficient mechanically, I would have the professionals do the fitting. It's a safety issue so best not to take chances that it is not fitted properly.

-- Edited by Vic on Sunday 29th of May 2011 04:26:05 PM

ozi2 · Guru

Hi Peter and welcome to the forum. Whatever you decide to do regarding the setup of your vehicle/van, please make sure that you dont void your cars warranty. Your insurance policy will need to be checked as well, but make sure to get it in writing!Car and insurance companies love escape clauses evileye

cheers

ozi2

-- Edited by ozi2 on Sunday 29th of May 2011 04:43:52 PM

Wombat 280 · Guru

As stated by others check with Kia first as fitting WDH . I drive a Nissan Pathfinder and Nissan strongly recommend NOT to use WDH so if you fit them against their recommendations you may blow your warranty . Never provide them an excuse to wipe your claim

aroundthetraps · Veteran Member

Got onto Kia owners site today, what a confused site. Kia say they do not recommned WDH but there is a picture of a Kia Sorento towing a bigger van than mine. Kia Australia sent an email to an enquirer, said we dont recommend using WDH as the owners do not follow instructions on the manufacturors list and will cause harm to Kia cars. However.....if the WDH was disconnected over rough undelating roads, going into service sataions, over gutters and corrigations, then the unit would likely not cause any damage to the Kia.

SO.......Im going to put one on but get a professional person to fit it.

signwilson · Senior Member

All new suv's only come with shocks for non towing use even the landcruisers. Have just fitted bilsteins to the cruiser much better you get what you pay for.

delatite · Veteran Member

As another option you could consider polyairs or similar. the suspension has more lift when carrying and the ability to release air and make the ride "normal" again. All with no WDH or similar.

jimricho · Guru

I have Airbagman (click on this underlined link) bags fitted and can recommend them. They are similar to Polyairs and like Polyairs can be purchased from and fitted by Pedders. If the suspension is spongy they alone may not do the job so an upgrade of the shocks (and possibly springs as well) may still be worthwhile.

Note that airbags are not a substitute for a WDH but may well be an effective alternative if a WDH is out of the question.

aroundthetraps · Veteran Member

Mmmmmm......7 for the WDH and 8 for suspension upgrade. Dam hard to decide, I dont want to void the warranty and fitting upgrade shocks wont do that. I'll discuss it with Pedders today letting them know about the correspondence from Kia confuse

jimricho · Guru

Firstly I have to advise that I don't own a WDH but that is due only to my requirements. (small rig with a Treg hitch)

I would think that the recommendations about disconnecting the WDH re gutters, servo drives, etc, (and maybe backing onto parks sites too) would be good advice for any WDH installation. WDH "experts" may have further thoughts on this.

I'd be inclined to think that if your warranty is not breached by using a WDH, that would be the way to go. If after fitting a WDH you still feel you need to upgrade the shocks/springs the money spent on the WDH will still have been money well spent.

Air bags should not be necessary with a WDH.

-- Edited by jimricho on Monday 30th of May 2011 09:14:03 AM

Cupie · Guru

Vic wrote:
I'd suggest you do a bit more research like I mentioned in my previous post.
Read the posts on this link;
http://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php?/topic/11837-weight-distributionload-levelling/

-- Edited by Vic on Sunday 29th of May 2011 02:35:44 PM

Had a look at this & found the post by WylieCoyote on 4 sept 08 provided an excellent description on how WDHs work.

Also I recall an article in a Caravan World mag some time ago where the effect of airbags was discussed.

It seems that the view was that the 'lever principle' applies.

ie the fulcrum is the rear suspension and the load (ball weight) forces the front of he tow vehicle up (maybe the springs compress also). If you reinforce the fulcrum with airbags, the rear doesn't sag but the lever principle still applies and the front is forced up.

As a lay person & not experienced in the use of airbags I offer this as an opinion that I heard and which seems to make sense to me.

Of course we need to ponder the effect of a front suspension airbag.

Also the issue that in the 'lever principle' the pressure applied at the long end of the lever (front of the car) is the effort, and the load is the at the short end (the ball) .. or is the length of the van a factor?

Wadda ya think?

All too much for me .. think that I'll go & have a cuppa ...

on proof reading this I think that the reverse lever principle would tend to negate the tendancy to lift the front .. round & round we go .. betta get that cuppa

-- Edited by Cupie on Monday 30th of May 2011 11:43:30 AM

LynneJacob · Member

Wow! I have nothing to contribute here, Folks, but I do want to say that in such a short period I got a heck of an education on options for dealing with suspension issues! Spongy suspension -- new term.

-- Edited by LynneJacob on Monday 30th of May 2011 11:07:37 AM

jimricho · Guru

Cupie wrote:
.. round & round we go .. betta get that cuppa

Is that because 9.56 am is too early for a beer! confuse

kiasen · Member

Hi peter

Have sent you a p/m

Kiasen