G/Day Grahame, I dont know about the legal side of putting a tank on the drawbar, but I know a bloke that has built two motor homes from coaster buses & he fitted a car gas tank under the buses & had it plumbed to the stove, fridge, & a external fitting for the BBQ. He filles it at the servo from the auto gas bowser as its a lot cheaper.
JC.
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Be your self; there's no body better qualified ! "I came into this world with nothing , I still have most of it"
some will say the mixture of gas is different and apliances wont burn correctly. I do know of someone that tapped into a lpg gas tank on a gas powered bus to also use for other inhouse reasons. One that you need to make the call on I think, but it has been done cheers blaze
I have a mate who has a gas bottle out of one of those wharehouse fork lifts. He has been using it a reservoir for filling the family's gas BBQs for years. Puts it in the boot & fills up at the local servo.
Go to any remote - or for that matter not so remote service stations and you will find there is only ONE truck that arrives with the station gas supply!
He fills the auto lpg tank then the propane gas bottle tank all from the one tanker.
Make your own decisions on interchangability from that.
Cheers Neil
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Neil & Lynne
Pinjarra
Western Australia
MY23.5 Ford Wildtrak V6 Dual Cab / 21' Silverline 21-65.3
I think I would check my insurance very carefully, maybe even get an opinion in writing from my insurance company. Had a mate who because of limited range of tug, had a diesel tank fitted under van and transferred fuel to tug with a small 12v pump when stopped. He had all sorts of problems getting insurance for his van.
Sounds like a plan worth investigating further , but mounting on the draw bar may be seen as a design problem when it comes to having a gas fitter plumb it and getting the required certificates may also present a problem. With so many fatal accidents involving LPG in recent months the rules will get more restrictive on the carriage of gas
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Have you weighed up the full cost to fit the gas tank. I haven't done the numbers but perhaps the saving may not be as great when this is taken into account. As well as insurance issues, Legal issues may also be a factor, especially if it earned a defect notice. Some states are stricter than others in this regard.
I ave a little chassis mounted tank of 16l for the diesel gas on my discovery. There would be ample room to fit anoter on te otherside of te chassis and that would give you a 32l/kg capacity and at the rate we use gas at about rougly 2kgs a week that would give 16 weeks of use at about 75 cents per litre. Numbers airnt nessary that accurate but would be somewere in te ball park. ceers blaze
I believe we are being conned Re -Gas I'v had both running into my Unite and it burnt the same.....A Gas Converter friend of mine did it....That'd rather you pay Upwards of $ 4.00 Litre than 65 to 70 cent
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I always leave my camping area cleaner than I found it.
well i talked to a gas company yesterday and its illegal in qld to do it but the reason is stupid . something to do with butane and lpg . but he has done a couple of trailers and it works fine burns fine just not allowed . so i got another idea on how to do it .yes y pay $4 a ltr against 80 c hmmm mabey the real reason .
Can I shed some light on your LPG & Butane subject. I actually teach advanced gas fitting so I can tell you some FACTS. Auto gas is predominantly a butane mix while what we run our gas appliances on is propane, some remote service stations actually only get propane delivered to service both their auto & bottle gas requirements. Propane (C3 H8) boils at -42 degrees c & has a heating value of 96 megajoules per cubic metre, butane (C4 H10) boils at 0 degrees c & has a heating value of 105 megajoules. Both of these gasses are decanted into bottles in their liquid form where surrounding air temperature "vaporises" the liquid into a gas as it is drawn off.
The main differences from above cause the gas to burn slightly different, especially when you run butane through a burner designed for propane. The naked eye cannot detect the difference its the by products of combustion that are filling up the inside of your caravan is whats important, excess carbon dioxide, some excess water vapour & possibly some carbon monoxide. I have seen a gas bottle & regulator freeze over because they were running butane (autogas) through it. The higher boiling point means on a cold morning the gas cannot get enough latent heat from the surrounding air to allow the change in state from a liquid to a vapour, temperatures decrease around the bottle & condensation freezes.
Some appliances are designed to run on "universal" gas, propane or butane, some not. Basically most of our RV appliances are designed to run on propane, while funnily enough most american appliances are designed to run on butane, go figure?
As for putting a bulk tank on the drawbar there are limitations to its size, securing it so it can withstand forces at least four times its filled weight & for the sake of saving a few bucks why risk so much? When liquid LPG leaks it expands 270 times into a gas, thats why it is so dangerous. And thats why we leave it to the experts.
I don't mean to put anyone down or bore you with a science lesson, its just some basic facts. I am always happy to give free advice, if you ever want gas inspections etc I can do that too.
Thats all we need. The general public filling gas bottles on the driveways of service stations with little if any idea of how full they can be, and what action to take if there is a problem.
I would be surprised if this is allowed here.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 4th of June 2021 08:23:27 AM
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Regards Ian
Chaos, mayhem, confusion. Good my job here is done
Not sure that all of David's facts actually are facts. For instance "most American appliances being designed to run on butane" sounds a bit strange given that much of USA and Canada experiences ambient temperatures way below freezing so butane just wouldn't cope. No chance my motorhome being filled with butane north of the Mexico border. Pretty sure most gas available there is propane. Different in some parts of mexico and certainly further south, way further south actually, local supplies are often butane and propane is relatively rare. I ran a US class A motorhome all over North America, and an all-gas American truck camper - generator, stove, hws and fridge - all over south America at altitudes ranging from below sea level to nearly 5000 metres with gas ranging from pure butane to pure propane with near normal operation at all times.
Similarly in Europe, my motorhome has run on pure propane to pure butane with no problems. British motorhomes used to run on either butane or propane but regulator settings were different. European settings were mid way so could handle either.
Composition of autogas in Australia? Unlike in Europe and the Americas where it changes from country to country and sometimes by the season, I'd be surprised if it was any different to what is supplied in the swap bottles.
Knew a bloke that installed a big tank in his big motorhome, supposedly to supply the diesel engine power boost setup, but of course wasn't long before it was quietly plumbed to the house appliances. Illegal as far as I know.
My Europe motorhome is fitted with an autogas tank and has a swap bottle as well. Very convenient. In North America all the big motorhomes have fixed tanks while smaller have bottles. Same gas and regulator of course.
Not sure that all of David's facts actually are facts. For instance "most American appliances being designed to run on butane" sounds a bit strange given that much of USA and Canada experiences ambient temperatures way below freezing so butane just wouldn't cope.
Must admit... I did wonder about that assertion....
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"I beseech you in the bowels of Christ think it possible you may be mistaken"
Oliver Cromwell, 3rd August 1650 - in a letter to the General Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland
Well reading the above information which I guess most people did not, it says (several times) with (selected quotes) that "You can use propane instead of butane in virtually all fuel applications." and
"Butane vs LPG.When you want to go camping or just barbecuing in cold weather, propane is better than butane as your cooking and heating fuel. Propane keeps working in cold weather, when butane doesnt. Butane is appropriate for outdoor warm weather or indoor use only.
Both are used for home heating and cooking, as well as to fuel vehicles. Propane has a lower boiling point than butane so will continue to vaporise from liquid to gas even in cold conditions down to -42°C.
LPG (propane) boiling point is lower than butane meaning it will continue to vaporise from a liquid to a gas, even in very cold weather of -42°C vs -0.4°C for butane. So, propane is better for use in the cold. Butane vapour pressure is ¼ the pressure of LPG (propane), at a given temperature, making it more popular for propellant use.
Butane and LPG (propane) are used for cooking, heating and to fuel vehicles. Both propane and butane are classified as LPG Liquefied Petroleum Gas."
Being all very similar chemical composition they seem to burn similarly.
I can only say in times past I have filled 9 KG bottles from a car tank and used it for quite a few years with no noticeable problems or noticeable differences in flames. I am not recommending it but the clear distinction the gas companies seem to make does seem to be a profit based difference. Having worked overseas I did not see any differences made there.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Saturday 5th of June 2021 09:48:26 PM
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