Another lesson learnt.

Rip and Rosie · Guru

Another lesson learnt.

shekon · Guru

Well no matter what Dougwe says, this is all boy stuff to me but I am learning.

Yesterday I had to actually plug Miss Daisy into the power as I am now almost in an empty house. So all good get out the extension cord, ready to plug into mains power of my house, oops this has a 15amp plug on it and will not fit into the outside socket. confuse OK down to the local electrician, scratches his head says we don't do that sort of thing, suggested another electrician in town. No probs around to the next one, oh yes he says, take this heavy duty extension cord and all will be fine. Get home and of course I now have an ordinary plug that will not go into MH because it being 15amps. bleh

Call eldest son as he is the practical one, "Mum you will have make yourself an extension cord, go to Bunnings get the stuff required and I will step you through it. I know that Dad has put his wire strippers in your tool box." Hmmm, thinks Mum, I don't think so.

So Ohhh lightbulb moment, lets go to Jayco and see what they have to say. Into the office the explained my problem to the girl behind the desk, no problem you will need one of these orange boxes that will convert the power amps and plug in. Cost $110, no worries, I will have one of those. She then went on to explain that a lot of people make their own extension cords, (thought of number one son, and probably his father also, being farmers and from that background), but it is illegal, and if a fire or shortage occurs you are not covered by insurance. Excellent, money well spent. Another lesson learnt.

I am actually having fun learning about all this stuff that previously I would have taken no notice of. Never had a reason to because it was all done by my late hubby, who was very practical. And just between you and me, I am a little proud of myself too. biggrin

I have not left the driveway yet and the adventures have already started. Bring on next week.

shekon · Guru

thanks guys, I know the boys would have no problems playing with making up their own leads, but I am not that inclined as far as technical stuff goes, so decided I needed the safe easy option.
BG that is exactly what my late husband would have done. Would not have thought twice about and certainly would have objected to paying that money for something he could devise himself. I can see him now shaking his head. Oh well that is life.

Its all good fun and learning. Actually if I was completely honest I did not even know there was a 15amp plug, I thought they were all the same unless you needed one for something super dooper. Guess that is what my MH is super dooper.

-- Edited by shekon on Friday 27th of September 2013 05:29:31 PM

Happywanderer · The Master

Now Sharon, You should know better than that, you should have come on here first and asked the questions.
I would have told you it is illegal to make your own. I've learnt that much since I joined on here.
Others can tell you how to get around the problem if you haven't got the appropriate power point in the shed.
Haha, you are learning quick. That's a good thing.

Big Gorilla · Guru

For those who use the "Amphibian" Tell me all about it and how you use it... What size are the 3 pin plugs, 10 or 15 amperes ? What size power points are installed, 10 or 15 amperes ?

-- Edited by Big Gorilla on Friday 27th of September 2013 07:56:25 PM

Big Gorilla · Guru

I'm going to tell you something that I shouldn't be telling you !!!

biggrin

I have a small extension lead I made up, about 2 feet long (Hey ! I'm allowed to biggrin ) On one end I have an extension socket 15 amp that I can plug my 15 amp plug into from my long extension lead. On the other end of my 2 footer, I have a 10 amp three pin plug. OK, not strictly by the book, but it's practical. Practical to the point that if I turned on all the 240 volt items in my MH, the current drag would not get near 10 amperes. Now the danger lies if your total load in your MH or caravan exceeds 10 amps, this could cause a burnout, overheating of the 10 amp plug connection. If you can find a friendly Electrician, firstly get a check on the total load your MH or Caravan draws with all 240 volt lights and appliances on. If it is less than 10 amps, you might talk him into making up a similar lead. Having said all this, I don't want to convey the message that I am not safety conscious. In fact I am the total opposite. I'm also very practical, so if I make up a lead for my own personal use, knowing it to be completely safe, I have no bad feelings about my actions.

bill12 · Guru

I have a lead made by an electrician 20 years ago,and still good, but if you want safety , buy a made up lead from a reputable retailer.Insurance will cover you if it was made to Australian standard. Bill

spida · Guru

Definitely need the 'Amphibian' - yes it is dear but why risk a fire! I have used mine often.

buffy61 · Senior Member

Had the same thing happen when we bought our caravan. Had no idea that there was 15amp power required!!
Bought the Amphibian...nice to know I have the legal, safe option even if it cost a few bucks!!!
Of course now we are on the road we dont actually need it!!! :)

adreamer · Senior Member

You are certainly not on your own there. People are telling me I can't do this because that is only 12 volts but you can do this because it's 24 volts Whattttttttttttttttttt the!!

I just want to live in a cave and make my own fire!!

liddle · Senior Member

Hi BG there are some details here

Ampfibian

15A 10A ADAPTOR. Ampfibian® connects your caravan/RV to a standard
household powerpoint safely and legally. The difference between a standard ...
ampfibian.com.au/ -

cheers

Liddle

ShortNorth · Senior Member

When you are at home, you regularly use 240v mains power appliances for convenience, however, you must take a different approach when camping on the road. Mains power is only available from two sources, powered sites at commercial campgrounds and portable petrol fuelled generator sets, however minor power for some small appliances could be sourced from 12v/240v power inverters.

At a serviced campground 240v mains power is available at special "power pillars" (occasionally, some campgrounds REQUIRE all 240v leads and equipment to be certified tag-tested before connection to their power pillar), these provide a heavy-duty 15amp weather-proof socket connection, primarily for mains wired caravans.

Occasionally, you may find a few older rural camping grounds with older 10A sockets only; also you may find only 10A sockets at a few roadside rest stops, such as the "free" parking around the back of the local pub. Additionally you probably want a power connection at home to charge your batteries while the caravan is stored.

Unless you have a 15A socket specially installed, you will need an approved 240v 10A to 15A adaptor.

CAUTION - Some owners make up their own adaptor leads, but this is highly ILLEGAL and can result in heavy fines; note also that the common tradesmans multi-point power packs from hardware stores are NOT approved for use with recreational vehicles.

The most common adaptor is a special unit called the Amp-fibian; this is a fully weatherproof unit, with a built-in 10A current circuit breaker and RCD; it plugs into any convenient 10A GPO, and your 15A camper lead then plugs into the Amp-fibian. The circuit breaker is to prevent you from trying to draw 15A from a 10A GPO, and will trip when overloaded.

CAUTION : When connected to a caravan park 240v supply, note that your MAXIMUM power is 15Amps or 3600w ONLY. To put this in perspective, a typical electric jug is around 2200w, a microwave around 1100w, a skillet/frypan around 1200w and the inbuilt-hot water unit is 1000w. If you try to boil the jug, run the microwave and use the frypan simultaneously, you are going to trip the circuit breaker. But there is two of them, one on the park power pillar, the other on the van "switchboard"; either way it will be inconvenient having to reset the breakers. So you will have to be discerning in what you try to run simultaneously.

However, it gets worse when connected to a "normal" household 10A GPO (through an Amp-fibian of course), that is only 2400w MAXIMUM. Similarly if you try a 1Kva or 2Kva generator set, the maximum output is less than a 10A outlet; 1Kva about 800w and a 2Kva set about 1700w (due to losses in the system).

Regards, Brian (former electrical contractor and electrical consulting engineer; 35 years in the industry)

Big Gorilla · Guru

ShortNorth wrote:

Unless you have a 15A socket specially installed, you will need an approved 240v 10A to 15A adaptor.
CAUTION - Some owners make up their own adaptor leads, but this is highly ILLEGAL and can result in heavy fines; note also that the common tradesmans multi-point power packs from hardware stores are NOT approved for use with recreational vehicles.
The most common adaptor is a special unit called the Amp-fibian; this is a fully weatherproof unit, with a built-in 10A current circuit breaker and RCD; it plugs into any convenient 10A GPO, and your 15A camper lead then plugs into the Amp-fibian. The circuit breaker is to prevent you from trying to draw 15A from a 10A GPO, and will trip when overloaded.
CAUTION : When connected to a caravan park 240v supply, note that your MAXIMUM power is 15Amps or 3600w ONLY. To put this in perspective, a typical electric jug is around 2200w, a microwave around 1100w, a skillet/frypan around 1200w and the inbuilt-hot water unit is 1000w. If you try to boil the jug, run the microwave and use the frypan simultaneously, you are going to trip the circuit breaker. But there is two of them, one on the park power pillar, the other on the van "switchboard"; either way it will be inconvenient having to reset the breakers. So you will have to be discerning in what you try to run simultaneously.
However, it gets worse when connected to a "normal" household 10A GPO (through an Amp-fibian of course), that is only 2400w MAXIMUM. Similarly if you try a 1Kva or 2Kva generator set, the maximum output is less than a 10A outlet; 1Kva about 800w and a 2Kva set about 1700w (due to losses in the system).
Regards, Brian (former electrical contractor and electrical consulting engineer; 35 years in the industry)

Absolutely correct Brian. My last post below gave you a "Red Herring" deliberately. I did this to see what response I'd get, which was very little. The power boards depicted in my earlier post are not approved for caravan or MH use. I have seen some dangerous use of power leads in my time. I have seen a 15 amp plug with the earth pin cut down with a hacksaw and file to fit into a 10 amp socket. The little orange power boards, I have seen with a 10 amp plug, the 10 amp power point removed and replaced with a 15 amp outlet. All in breach of the Regulations. The rules applying to "Electrical Installations- transportable structures and vehicles" are contained within AS/NZS 3001-2008. The rules are called up in legislation relating to caravan parks and their site power supplies and are mandatory and relate to the safe use of electricity. The rules state that the extension lead supplying a "transportable structure" ( such as a caravan or motorhome) MUST be in one unbroken length.

The correct name is Amp Fibian, probably a trade name, not Amphibian. It is approved to break the unbroken length rule. In my opinion, it has one disadvantage, apart from being very expensive. It is only 10 ampere rated, not 15. Within the Amp Fibian is an RCD, which is similar to a fuse or circuit breaker. The RCD is rated at 10 amperes. See ShortNorth's description under "Caution"... Once you start to draw current in excess of 10 amperes using the Amp Fibian, the RCD will open and power will be lost.

Thank you also Liddle for the link...

What I described to you earlier about what I do is a bit like these TV programs you watch where they say "Don't try this at Home "...... biggrin biggrin biggrin

-- Edited by Big Gorilla on Saturday 28th of September 2013 09:29:10 AM

Rip and Rosie · Guru

We went today to Jayco Newcastle (Hexham) and they sold us a "Powertech" portable RCD
Cost $75.

-- Edited by Rip and Rosie on Saturday 28th of September 2013 05:34:57 PM

_wombat_ · Master (of Mischief)

Those ampfibian are good but you cannot use them in a caravan park, I have had two stolen while staying in caravan park's, not paying for another one for someone to steal.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I heard my name mentioned smile

Now come on, the boys toys you are referring too are for the girls as well, I did say that.

Sharon, the Ampfibian is the only way to go. You will be covered by insurance now as if you had a home made set up you would not be and then will have nothing left. You don't need them in CV park as they are set up for 15amp, just make sure you have a long enough lead, some people have a 10 mtr and a separate 20 mtr lead.

Great to read all is going to plan for you, I think I read somewhere you go out in the playground this Wednesday?

We are all here to help with info and advice as you know, you just have to ask. It's good fun learning but why learn the hard way.

Old Crofter · Senior Member

Amp fibian and power tech as shown are two different things, expect to pay around the two hundred plus for the amphibian as opposed to the other that I do not think meets aus standards For your use.

Could be wrong.

Bob

-- Edited by Old Crofter on Saturday 28th of September 2013 04:54:27 PM

herbie · Guru

An amp Fib should be on everyone's ...essential accessory list. may never need to use it but a life saver.

ShortNorth · Senior Member

The Powertech unit IS NOT APPROVED for use with any recreational vehicle, and does not comply with AS/NZS 3001:2008/Amdt 1:2012 Electrical Installations Portable structures and vehicles including their site supplies. The Powertech unit is only intended for non-weatherproof indoor use such as by tradesmen and contractors performing indoor work on building structures. Many Powertech sellers quote the Electrical Safety Approval Certificate No.: SAA122512EA, as a smokescreen into convincing you to buy one, but this certificate in itself does not make the unit compliant with AS/NZS 3001:2008/Amdt 1:2012 Electrical Installations Portable structures and vehicles including their site supplies".

AS/NZS 3001:2008/Amdt 1:2012 Electrical Installations Portable structures and vehicles including their site supplies requires that all switches, GPO's, etc to be double-pole such that BOTH CONDUCTORS are broken simultaneously (no danger of a wrongly wired active still being present in the appliance when both conductors are broken). The 15A "outlet" GPO and RCD unit in the Powertech unit is NOT double-pole switched, and as such does not comply with AS/NZS 3001:2008/Amdt 1:2012.

If anyone tries to sell you a Powertech unit for use with a recreational vehicle, ask them for written certification that it complies with AS/NZS 3001:2008/Amdt 1:2012; they will not be able to produce the certification, as it does not exist.

The Ampfibian IS APPROVED under AS/NZS 3190:2011 Approval and test specification Residual current devices (current-operated earth-leakage devices) which includes portable RCDs, AND its use ALSO complies with AS/NZS 3001:2008/Amdt 1:2012 Electrical Installations Portable structures and vehicles including their site supplies which covers caravans, campers and motor homes beware cheap imitations that do not comply with that second standard!

Beware; there are TWO "orange things"; the one with the name Ampfibian, complies; the one with the name Powertech does not comply. Orange is the standard colour to identify most electrical devices.

If you are prepared to risk your life (or that of others) by using non-approved power supplies, then that is your individual prerogative, but there is no way I'd risk that - in my 35 years experience as an electrical contractor and electrical consulting engineer I nurtured a very great respect for the sudden destructive life-taking power of mains electricity !

While we are talking about 240v caravan connections and lead lengths, here is an interesting scenario I experienced earlier this year. Avan Aliners only have a 10metre 240v lead (permanently connected at the van end), as distinct from the normal 15metre or 20metre leads for most other caravans. I booked a powered grass site at a rural park in northern NSW, and when I got the van positioned on site, I found my 10 metre lead would not reach the power pillar. I spoke to management and they said they would load me an extention lead and bring it down to me. Well !, they turned up with a 20metre standard 10amp lead, I showed them that my 15amp plug would not possibly fit into the 10amp socket on the end of their lead. I asked to be moved to a different site where my 10metre lead would reach their power pillar. Once on the new site they walked off in a huff mumbling something about other vanners not having a problem with their 10amp lead, and quite indignant that they wasted their time bringing me the extention lead (they had to carry it all of maybe 200metres !). They did not see the point that a 15amp van lead cannot plug into a normal 10 amp lead. I wonder if they actually learnt something out of the experience; I doubt it !

Regards, Brian

-- Edited by ShortNorth on Saturday 28th of September 2013 09:53:53 PM

-- Edited by ShortNorth on Saturday 28th of September 2013 10:09:22 PM

Triple333 · Veteran Member

Heck. I think I got ripped off. I got my amphibian from my local Jayco dealer and from memory it was over $200. But I've used it and I have learnt better places to shop ;)

Big Gorilla · Guru

The Powertech unit as shown is approved for indoor use only. Cannot be used outdoors in weather.

Cruising Granny · Guru

I use a short extension cord with 10 amp female connection at one end and the 15 amp male on the other end which then attaches to my 15 amp cable to the Sprinter. It's currently plugged into the external outlet on my caravan. Powering 10 amps into 15 won't cause too much problem.
The problem can start when you try to plug 15 amp into 10 amp by filing down the big pin on the bottom, or top, whichever way you're holding the plug.
Let's keep this simple. We don't want to confuse another nomad, do we boys and girls.
How did I get the little extension cord, you may ask. An electrician made it up for me, and gave me a complimentary wink as I handed over $10, cash of course.
Safe and happy travels to you.

wasn_me · Guru

I purchased a small van about 10 years ago. The lead that came with it was a 15 amp lead but someone had filed the earth pin down to suit a 10 amp socket. As it was a 15 amp lead I thought "no problem".

Some months later I was camped at a council c/p northern NSW coast. I went for a drive. When I came back to the c/p my lead was rolled up & placed at the door of the van with a message to see park manager. He said the council had done an electrical inspection & my lead was found faulty / illegal. If I continued to use it I could be fined.

The result, I hired a lead from the manager for $5 & had a new plug fitted to the lead when home.

By the attitude of some campers on this & similar posts to electrical safety, it's a pity more checks aren't carried out.

Cheers Pete

shekon · Guru

Guys, each to their own, settle and play nice. See I knew it was a boy thing!
Still great discussion and lessons learnt like I said. Now all out to play and have fun., or no ice cream for dinner.

Yendorane · Senior Member

Just found this on the Jaycar site Regarding the powertech portable RCD

It seem to be the same standard as the Amp fibian

Cheers Yendorane

liddle · Senior Member

Hi Yendorane

Sorry if I gave the impression that I was tech savy.

I am just worried about members safety.

I have no idea how the things work. I am happy to be advised by a qualified person that something complies with safety or it does not .

I like everyone else on this forum hope to learn a lot as I go along

Cheers

Liddle

-- Edited by liddle on Sunday 29th of September 2013 11:17:02 PM

ShortNorth · Senior Member

Yendorane wrote:
Just found this on the Jaycar site Regarding the powertech portable RCD
It seem to be the same standard as the Amp fibian
Cheers Yendorane

Read my previous post :

NO, it is NOT the same standard as the Amp-fibian.

Yes, the Powertech does comply with AS/NZS 3190:2011 as shown on that certificate ................... BUT it DOES NOT comply with AS/NZS 3001:2008/Amdt 1:2012 Electrical Installations Portable structures and vehicles including their site supplies. Compliance with AS/NZS 3001:2008/Amdt 1:2012 is REQUIRED to make it legal to use with a caravan, camper trailer or motorhome.

Can I make it any clearer: the Powertech unit <<< IS NOT APPROVED >>> for use with a caravan, camper trailer or motorhome FULL STOP.

Ignore this at your own peril !!!

liddle · Senior Member

Why is it so difficult for members to accept that there are safety electrical regulations in place to protect us.

There are 3 ways of connecting a 15amp plug to a 10 amp socket

First way it is very easy to make up a cord with 15amp on one end and 10amp on the other , and it is cheap BUT it is illegal and unsafe. Second way you can buy a special power box which is only suitable for inside and use it outside BUT it is illegal and unsafe.

Third way You can buy an Amp- Fibian which is legal and safe .

Easy peasy

Cheers

Liddle